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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, so as far back as I can remember I have always wanted to go to school and become a nurse specialising in Labor and Delivery. When the kids go to kindergarten I REALLY want to go back to school and do this...but here is the downfall. When you have a job, can you REFUSE to do something you don't agree with? Being a L&D Nurse is my DREAM job...but no way no how could I ever help perform a circumcision. I am so against it, I just couldn't do it, no matter how much money I was paid. So yeah, my question, if someone had a job as a L&D nurse, can they refuse to help with a circ?? If I find out that someone cannot refuse it, I won't be going into nursing.

Angela
 

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Google "nurses against circumcision" (I think that's what it's called). There's a whole movement of L&D nurses refusing to perform circs. It might give some advice on your legal rights, too. I haven't checked it out as I'm not a nurse but I've seen it mentioned here several times.
 

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Angela-

I have been an Intactivist since 2001. I have spoken to several nurses in L & D who have been fired or threatened to be fired if they dared to say a word to moms about leaving the penis intact.

If you refuse to participate in a circ?? At this juncture in US history, i wouldn't count on keeping your job or finding a new one for that matter. sorry to be so glum about it.


remember circ is BIG business for hospitals and MD's. If you don't support that, I am afraid they wont support you.

Marilyn Milos RN (founder of www.nocirc.org) was fired for being a conscientious objector. She never returned to nursing after that. She became an Intactivist f/t.

You should write to her and ask her what she thinks too.

*********************
I didn't realize you live in Canada...I am not sure what the circ climate is in Canada? pretty low now right? maybe it might be a different situation there. Not sure. Talk to some Candian RN's who are in L & D if you can.
 

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There is another member of this board who is a nurse and she refuses to perform them. She's actually local to me, at a hospital that I know does lots of circs (and lots of c-sections
) and she has said she refuses to do them, but I don't know if she's ever gotten in trouble for it.
 

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Look at These Hands

By Mary Conant, R.N., Statement to the press May 25, 1994, Third International Symposium on Circumcision, University of Maryland

Look at these hands.

These hands have taken a newborn baby from his mother's safe warm breast and his father's sheltering arms, and these hands have tied this baby to a cold hard platter and served him up to the circumciser.

These hands have readied the scalpel, even as they caressed the brow of the terrified baby as he struggles for freedom and searches my eyes for compassion he will not find.

A tortured being has sucked frantically on this finger in a hopeless effort to end the agony as his flesh - his birthright - is ripped from him and thrown in the garbage.

These hands have removed the diaper painfully adhered to the feces-covered wound between his chubby legs.

These hands have shielded my ears from his screams.

Nurses of America, I did not become a nurse to hurt babies, and neither did you.

In 1992, with over 20 other nurses at St. Vincent Hospital in Santa Fe, New Mexico, I gave notice to my employers and declared I would no longer be an accomplice in the atrocity that is infant circumcision.

I have reclaimed my tattered soul and begun the process of becoming whole again.

I am a conscientious objector in the war against our infant brothers and sons and it feels wonderful.

Nurses of America, wipe the blood from your hands and join me!

Mary Conant is a co-founder of Nurses for the Rights of the Child. She is one of the original 24 Conscientious Objectors to Circumcision nurses at St. Vincent Hospital, Santa Fe, New Mexico. She also appears on Barry Ellsworth's video documentary The Nurses of St. Vincent: Saying No to Circumcision.
 

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You won't have any trouble staying away from circ in British Columbia hospitals. Just go to the website for the College of Physicians and Surgeons of BC and read there policy on infant circumcision. Most of the hospitals have stopped doing them and parents have to take their sons to private clinics and pay out of pocket.

I know someone with sons aged 10 and 8. She wanted to circ them when they were born at Richmond General Hosp and the nurses were against it and had no problem telling her that it was a terrible idea. They're intact. We need lots more nurses like that. I think nurses can refuse to do any procedure which goes against their ethics---some nurses can't participate in abortion procedures, for example.
Baybee (also from B.C.)
 

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WA has a "conscience clause", and I don't exercise it though I don't believe in circs (whole other issue about conscience clauses in general and my feelings about reproductive rights issues). However, a lot of nurses do.

If you work nights or evenings, you will probably never have to participate in circs, because they're done during the day. You will almost certainly work nights or evenings as a new grad, so by the time it becomes an issue you'll have seniority and can probably work something out.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by babygrant
Ok I found:
http://nurses.cirp.org/

Nurses for the Rights of the Child. I am going to contact them and see. Thanks!

Anyone else have any advice, please let me know.
Oops, that's what I was talking about, thank you for giving her the correct info!
 

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I'm pretty sure it's Roseselene, or something very similar. She normally posts on the diapering board, I'm sure you can find her there. Her real name is Amy (it's in her sig, I'm not ouiting anyone!)
 

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You wouldn't have to deal with assisting with circs if you were a Labor and Delivery nurse anyway. That's a postpartum nurse thing. Circs aren't done in the first few hours after birth, by then mom and baby are usually sent to the post partum floor. The only way would be if you worked on a LDRP (labor, delivery, recovery, postpartum) floor. I still think it would be rare. You might end up seeing one or two during nursing school, but maybe not. I didn't see a circ while I was in nursing school, but I did see some after I started working on a postpartum floor.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Karry
You wouldn't have to deal with assisting with circs if you were a Labor and Delivery nurse anyway. That's a postpartum nurse thing. Circs aren't done in the first few hours after birth, by then mom and baby are usually sent to the post partum floor. The only way would be if you worked on a LDRP (labor, delivery, recovery, postpartum) floor. I still think it would be rare. You might end up seeing one or two during nursing school, but maybe not. I didn't see a circ while I was in nursing school, but I did see some after I started working on a postpartum floor.

I don't know how it is in BC, but in WA the move is away from LDRs to LDRPs, so there's not really a postpartum floor, and all the nurses are expected to be crosstrained. Night shift did (at my last hospital; my current one actively discourages circs) set up the babies for the 7 am circs, but weren't there for the surgery itself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Karry
You wouldn't have to deal with assisting with circs if you were a Labor and Delivery nurse anyway. That's a postpartum nurse thing. Circs aren't done in the first few hours after birth, by then mom and baby are usually sent to the post partum floor. The only way would be if you worked on a LDRP (labor, delivery, recovery, postpartum) floor. I still think it would be rare. You might end up seeing one or two during nursing school, but maybe not. I didn't see a circ while I was in nursing school, but I did see some after I started working on a postpartum floor.

Well I would be staying here and both hospitals here you have a labor, delivery, postpartum floor. You stay in the same room from the beginning of your labor until you leave the hospital with your baby. I remember when my son was in the Special Care Nursery, I was holding his hand through the isolette and they made me leave because they were setting the nursery up for a circumcision.
:
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by babygrant
Well I would be staying here and both hospitals here you have a labor, delivery, postpartum floor. You stay in the same room from the beginning of your labor until you leave the hospital with your baby. I remember when my son was in the Special Care Nursery, I was holding his hand through the isolette and they made me leave because they were setting the nursery up for a circumcision.
:
Oh dear, what part of BC are you in?

Lower Mainland? Southern Island, Interior or Northern Island

(good way to ask without getting too specific)
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
West Kootenays. Just read on another thread where you are from....you are about....9 hours from me.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by babygrant
West Kootenays. Just read on another thread where you are from....you are about....9 hours from me.
lol 9 hours, that's if you manage to catch the ferry on time!

Just needed to know just in case of hospital transfer ya know? no need of worrying that they perform them at this hospital (which I heard they DONT)
 

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Has anyone ever gone to court over it? If pharmacists are allowed to refuse to dispense medications because of personal beliefs, why can't nurses? I can't see how the courts would say that one is allowed, but another isn't.

(feel free to correct any part of my argument. I'm genuinly curious)
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by skybluepink02
Has anyone ever gone to court over it? If pharmacists are allowed to refuse to dispense medications because of personal beliefs, why can't nurses? I can't see how the courts would say that one is allowed, but another isn't.

(feel free to correct any part of my argument. I'm genuinly curious)
In the US, if it's a state with a conscience clause, then you are free to refuse, but you must find another nurse to replace you in caring for that infant or it's patient abandonment.

Pharmacists aren't free to refuse in every state. Again, most states do have conscience clauses, but not all.

The sticking point for nurses is that we are legally responsible for a patient until we have turned their care over to an equivalent provider. So, if there's no one to take over on that care, you can't just say, "I won't do it."
 
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