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UGH! I am to the point where I actually dread my 4 yo waking up in the morning. He is grumpy all day, won't even say good morning to his dad. He's just generally nasty. And of course, I am exhausted because he wakes up about three times at night to nurse. No, not my three MONTH old, my FOUR YEAR old. Is there a pulling your hair out smilie? (I guess it would technically be a frownie <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">).<br><br>
The only time I have been nursing Peter (the baby) by himself, is when Daniel is not around. In the last two days, I have been limiting Daniel's nursing (morning, night, and one time during the day). He constantly asks "Why does Peter get to nurse?" I say, well, Daniel, Peter doesn't get to have candy or snacks or play with friends, and on and on. I probably repeat this kind of thing 20 times per day. I realize that Daniel probably lacks the verbal skills to say,<br><br>
"Mom, I am feeling threatened. Please offer some words of reassurance. This is why my behavior is insane, and I ask to nurse 20+ times per day." The thing is, I am trying to indulge Daniel when I can, including carrying him around the house *while* I have Peter in the sling. Did I mention I wake up with foot and back pain every day? Oh, I and did you catch I am starting to really resent Daniel?<br><br>
I *HATE* feeling this way, and I had imagined child led weaning for us. Daniel had actually completely stopped nursing about 2 months before I had Peter. I am sure that a lot of my feelings are biological. I feel that Daniel's constant demand for milk is making Peter suffer. Daniel drinks a breast to empty, and then asks to trade with Peter! I have always said no to that. And now, Peter is needing more, so I want him to have both breasts at a nursing. Peter has a very high metabolism, I think because he does require a lot. If I don't give him everything he needs, his growth will suffer.<br><br>
And Daniel does not need milk to survive at this stage, and he certainly doesn't need to nurse three times in the night. Last night, I offered to snuggle him with no milk and he screamed, and went into a tantrum. Of course, there is no reasoning with him at night. He is tired and just screams. And my resentment is festering because I feel that Peter is getting the short end of the stick.<br><br>
I guess I am saying that I am tired of putting Daniel ahead of Peter because he is the one bullying me to do it. And Peter is just very easy.<br><br>
I am at a loss. I feel like a horrible mother for being mad at Daniel all the time, but now I can't break out of the cycle. I don't get any encouragement for Daniel, who is nasty no matter what I do. I do at least two decent-length crafts/activities with Daniel every day. Also Daniel goes to a Waldorf nursery three mornings a week (this is keeping me sane). Daniel loves that, but turns nasty again as soon as we are home.<br><br>
DH wants to wean Daniel immediately -- he feels that limiting nursing Daniel is too confusing to him ( I somewhat agree with that b/c Daniel is always pusing for more.)<br><br>
Oh, and I am being counseled by a professional homeopath for Daniel. I hope she can help me more today (we will speak this morning).<br><br>
Thanks for reading this dramatic novel!
 

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I don't have any advice for your family.<br>
I couldn't not reply after reading because we are in a very similar place. Our dd just turned 4 and dd2 is almost 6 months. Just two mights ago after having my own little meltdown, I decided to set limits on breastfeeding dd1. not only because her teeth constantly dig into my breast, but because its absolutely draining me and making me really not like her!<br>
before dd2 arrived, i was under the impression that by tandem nursing both on demand, dd1 would eventually lighten up. such has not been the case, but i really need it for my sanity!<br><br>
tricia
 

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I don't think I would wean immediatly but I would limit the nursing. I would try to take away the session(s) that are most bothersome. But in order to take away, you would need to talk about it a lot with your son.<br>
You could do the countdown from 10 technique. Or just nurse in the morning, or after lunch etc.<br>
Just make sure you talk about it before the time comes.<br>
Maybe this is a weird idea but you could have a nursing calender, and if he nurses twice a day, he gets 2 stickers to put on his calender...hmmmm, ok that seemed better in my head <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br>
Hehe It seems like your the one that should be getting stickers <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"> You are doing an amazing job btw <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br>
If you do decide to wean immediatly maybe have a weaning party with a cake and balloons...then it willl actually be a fun event, oh and you could get him a special SIGG bottle, just for the big boy.
 

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Wow, I'd be weaning 4yo in a minute. You are a lot more comitted than I am. I guess my only advice is that if you are resenting your child, then the nursing relationship is no longer healthy for either of you, and it's time for a big change, you know? DS can sense resentment (however justified, which in your case I think it is TOTALLY justified!).<br><br>
Also, DlittleS needs you milk, and it sould like DbigS is using that knowledge in almost a passive/aggressive way (draining the breast, etc). I guess just remember too that the milk is food first, then comfort.<br><br>
This is no help, I'm sure, but...
 

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Have you tried talking with Daniel about how he's feeling? In a way that's at his developmental level, of course. I'm a therapist who specializes in parent-child relationships (birth to six) and I have found over the years that just hearing a parent say, "I know that you are very angry at having to share Mama/Mama's milk/etc., but Mama will ALWAYS love you, even when I'm nursing your brother," or "I know that sharing Mama is a big change for you--I know it doesn't feel fair and you're so used to having me all to yourself" can really help. Kids need to know that their parents understand what they're feeling, even when their behavior is driving you <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">: ! To your DS1, I'm sure that this whole "new baby" thing seems really unfair. He didn't ask for it, has no control over it, and it has turned his world upside-down. He's trying to make sense of it by asking you why his brother gets to nurse and by trying to control his nursing r-ship with you. His world was one way for four years, and now everything has changed. I know it feels like forever when you're dealing with frustrating behavior, but three months is a short period of time compared to how long he had you to himself. The fact that he can ask you questions and come to you for reassurance is a testament to the great job you've done with him.<br><br>
I'm also thinking that the picture books "I'm a Big Brother" book by Joanna Cole and "What Baby Needs" by Dr. Sears might be helpful ways to help your DS1 understand that what he's going through is pretty typical for older sibs of new babies.<br><br>
You're doing a fantastic job! Hang in there and feel free to PM me if you'd like to chat further. My DSs are going to be 16 months apart and we're planning on tandeming, so I may be asking you for help in a few months! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink">
 

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Adventures in Tandem Nursing - a great book and you should be able to get it from your local LLL group library - if not your library. You must value your feelings, my 4.5 just stopped nursing (tandemed for 18 months) it's a tricky road, and limitations are justified - you can explain short, simple reasons for how YOU feel when your 4yo nurses, he can expain in different ways to you. Can you plan activities for him so that he still feels 'special' to mommy, remember HIS world has been turned around as well, can dh take him out for an afternoon just the boys together type thing, he needs to feel reassured which is sometimes really hard with a newborn. Limiting and explaining why is absolutely acceptable, I don't think that weaning him right now will help - just make him more resentful. There is help at the end of the phone through LLL not sure of the US number but someone is there to listen and try and help you. Big big hugs to you its hard and I can really sympathise with you, maybe you could write down all the pros and cons to him nursing and see if you can make your own decision about how you go about it, and you could do the same thing asking him different questions about how he feels when he nurses or when he sees the baby nursing. That worked quite well with my dd when I went through the icky stage. Good luck - do let us know how you have got on.
 

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I think there was a story in Tandem Nursing about a mom who was trying really hard to makeit okay for her older child and as OP said "indulge" older child as much as possible. In the end she hated it and the older child was cranky all the time. She ended up setting some really firm limits and that kind of fixed the whole thing (miraculous I know). Anyway, I strongly suggest you read the book since there might be some stories that resonate with you and offer helpful tidbits.<br><br>
IMHO I would set firm limits and make nursing bearable again for you.
 

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Thanks, Everyone! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/grouphug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="grouphug"><br><br>
It is still hard, but I am going to try to stick with nursing two. I really liked everyone's suggestions, and am going to try them all. I do talk to DS about his/my feelings, but sometimes I feel so limited by my own brain! It really helps to get fresh words to try! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
It really helps to remember that Daniel is still a young boy even though he is 4!<br><br>
A good example: he is so attached to his truck shirt and we have beein trying to get rid of it. He was so happy that I got my sewing machine out to fix it instead. Poor Daniel! He doesn't need *another* thing to change.<br><br>
I will just keeping trying to laugh my way through! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
Thanks again!
 

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HUGS HUGS HUGS<br><br>
it maybe the age -- my DN is 4 and just got a new sister and DNis being pretty flat out swful to sister to mom and to Dad. (DN is not still nurseing or i can see him pushing it a lot). 4 yo seesm to have an ablity to bully mom like none other. and the midbehvor really gets to you as you know it is willfull. :0<br><br>
HUGS HUGS HUGS<br><br>
My son is only 17 months<br><br>
and will be excately 2 when our sib is born -- so take my advice for what little it may be worth.<br><br>
1. i would night wean. not totally wean. and not cuz there is anything at all wrong with nurseing a 4 yo but because you are correct he doesnt' NEED to night nurse and you need more sleep and less reason to wake up already vexed at him <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> try giving him a sippy of water -- cuz he IS used to drinking at night... you can transiton out of THAT habit after the night wean (sis did this -- made it two issues -- and it wrked better for her than when she treated it as one issue with her other boy).<br><br>
2. i don't know how milant you want to be with day time, i too would want to keep nurseing, but not if it is going to add to the jelousy and the conflicts; and i do not think i would still be "on demand".<br><br>
I would be temped to say "D you are a big boy who gets to eat lots of fun things, Nurseing is extra, like a treat, and i want to share it with you but P has to be first as he don't get anything else but nurse and you have to be nice, or momma doesn't want to share extra thigs with you". then nurse P first --<br><br>
maybe getting some specail toys that have parts too small for P that you can let D play with ONLY when P is nurseing so it is safe? Point out to D that this toy is too samll or advanced for P so D gets it as he is older, but he can only play with it with P is nurseing so P doesn't accidently get it? reinfoce the older thing, and distract him while you nurse the baby?<br><br>
Then welcome him to nurse at nap time or bed time -- maybe get baby to sleep first or give to DH at night -- so you can nurse D alone at these two "special nurseing times" ????<br><br>
3. you are doing a great job getting him his own activities and giving him a life not effected by baby -- good job. ajustment is hard. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br><br>
4. i may not be as GD as some -- but you need to stop being bullyed by your 4 yo, you are the parent. he knows he can push your buttons so he does so...............i would stop carrying him "D you can walk, you are big. I carry P cuz he is little and can not walk with us". and if D refuses to do big things (walk, eat other food) then he can start to loose big priviliges (treats, freinds over, toys that are not baby safe).<br><br>
i really think that once order is restored,a nd D is not allowed to bully anyone things will get better. D is lost looking for a new order with P around, and he is trying to establish it himself, you need to do it for him.<br><br>
it might SUCK big time for a while -- but it sucks now doesn't it??<br><br>
I hope you find a soultion<br><br>
ohhhhhhhhhh and in boy develpoment -- they get a surge of Testorone at 4, that subsideds greatly at 5, so that should help too. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br><br>
Aimee
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Aimee21972</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8012433"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh Angela -- you were toooo nice -- i was waiting for you to come post something. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> you were too kind to the guy.<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br></div>
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Not often I get accused of that <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
-Angela
 
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