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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mamafish9</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15191968"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Is the mattress topper washable? Cutler advises removing flame retardant by washing in wash soda (basically very strong baking soda - Arm & Hammer makes some) a bunch of times on hot. Or liquid plumber, but I chose wash soda <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngtongue.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Stick Out Tongue">. I wasn't convinced it would necessarily get ALL the antimony out, but it should help a huge amount.<br><br>
I made DS a bed from whitelotus.net foam and wool for about $120. More expensive for us since I got a layer of latex as well - but still WAY less expensive than buying an organic mattress.</div>
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Washing soda is different than baking soda, but if you've been using some all along, and maybe real soap as well (as opposed to detergent), it could be helping. Flame retardant stuff also sometimes says to not use soap to wash the fabric, and to use cool temperatures.<br><br>
I buy most of the kids' clothing used, so every so often, I wash all their stuff in hot water with a whole box of washing soda in 1 load, and then sometimes shave in a half a bar of dr bronner's soap for another wash, and then rinse a while. It's not perfect, but I've wondered about transfer among older bedding and used clothing and what-not, so it's my best guess.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>JacquelineR</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15192710"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">remember that vitamin K is fat soluble, so it's possible that she's still got residual K from the few days you DID supp.</div>
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DS gets slowly worn down on K, usually--sometimes it can be hastened, but it seems like it's usually a slow process.
 

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I was thinking, the reason for the breath test was to show bacterial overgrowth? Doesn't the OAT show bacterial overgrowth too?
 

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Yeah- I think it does. But I'm not sure they're all checking the same stuff. Like the OAT didn't show the same bacteria as the stool test she had.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>changingseasons</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15202358"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Yeah- I think it does. But I'm not sure they're all checking the same stuff. Like the OAT didn't show the same bacteria as the stool test she had.</div>
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The OAT shows specific bacteria!?
 

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Nooooo... there are just markers that would indicate bacteria. Now I have to go find our results and see exactly what it says...<br><br>
Ok- there are 4 markers for bacteria, and DD was negative on all of them. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/headscratch.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="headscratch"> huh. I might just have to call them and ask about that.
 

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I just looked through that link that explains what most of the acids are... did you see phenylcarboxylic acid as an indicator of bacterial overgrowth? (It's not in with the other bacterial stuff).<br><br>
I'm annoyed. My OAT didn't check for *any* of the yeast/bacterial stuff, and barely any of the other (non-genetic) things on the Great Plains list either. Yar. (that's why I was reading the explanations) I see more expensive tests in my near future...
 

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Well that sucks. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"><br><br>
Yeah- they have phenylcarboxylic on here, but its under the miscellaneous category, not bacterial. And now I can't find that webpage that talks about test interpretation (are you the one that posted that?)<br><br>
Ooh- I did find this though (oxalates & autism). Haven't read it fully yet:<br><a href="http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/home/eng/OAT%20Oxalates_single%20pages_sm.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com...20pages_sm.pdf</a><br><br>
Interesting. NONE of the non-autistic kids studied had elevated oxalate levels. Weird.
 

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<a href="http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/home/eng/Clinical%20Significance%20of%20the%20OAT.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com...0the%20OAT.pdf</a><br><br>
Were they testing non-autistic kids with food issues, though?
 

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Probably not. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngtongue.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Stick Out Tongue">
 

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Ok... bumping up my old thread to add today's bloodtest results (will have more coming later this week too) just in case anyone wants to take a look and have an amazing revelation about something that we've missed. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngtongue.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Stick Out Tongue"><br><br>
- thyroid levels were normal, but free T3 was right on the upper edge of normal. I know this is all related somehow.... TSH: 1.3, Free T3: 4.6, Free T4: 1.24, T3 uptake: 27.6<br><br>
- PTH and calcium normal - PTH: 57.5, total calcium: 9.7, ionized calcium: 1.3<br><br>
- creatinine is right on the bottom edge of normal at 0.3. Can be caused by a diet low in protein (definitely not ours)- Deb... you were talking about your DS eating a lot of protein but not digesting it or something... ???<br><br>
- really high BUN to creatinine ratio- hers is at about 46.6:1, where <a href="http://www.questdiagnostics.com/kbase/topic/medtest/hw4322/results.htm" target="_blank">normal range</a> is 10:1 - 20:1. Could be caused by bleeding in intestinal track, or kidney failure- but I would think in that case her creatinine would be high as well and it's not.<br><br>
- phosphate is high at 6.1. I know this is somehow related to calcium issues, but what I'm reading is that it should be moving opposite to calcium, so if phosphate is high, calcium is low, or vise versa. So that leaves us with either a thyroid issue or low magnesium. (can we bloodtest mag- is it accurate in blood?)<br><br>
- all blood levels were good except mono & eos were high (eos is always high for her, so that wasn't a surprise.) I'm reading that high monocytes indicate a bacterial infection. ??<br><br>
- vitamin D - 33. Not great, but not horrible.<br><br>
Any thoughts?
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>changingseasons</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15493980"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">- creatinine is right on the bottom edge of normal at 0.3. Can be caused by a diet low in protein (definitely not ours)- Deb... you were talking about your DS eating a lot of protein but not digesting it or something... ???</div>
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I know nothing about blood, but I do know that many kids on Dr. Yasko's forum start with very low urine creatinine, and that's not good (means you're not clearing crud - viruses/bacteria/metals - which go out with the creatinine). Seeing it go up is a sign of improving methylation. Don't have a whole lot more details than that, sorry, not one of DS' problems. What was your DD's creatinine on her OAT?
 

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I don't see it on her OAT. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> I do know that blood levels and urine levels mean something different though. Too bad I don't have that to compare the two.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>changingseasons</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15493980"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">phosphate is high at 6.1. I know this is somehow related to calcium issues, but what I'm reading is that it should be moving opposite to calcium, so if phosphate is high, calcium is low, or vise versa. So that leaves us with either a thyroid issue or low magnesium. (can we bloodtest mag- is it accurate in blood?)</div>
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I had low Mg on blood test. The osteo said that you have to be pretty low for it to show up on the blood test though.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">- all blood levels were good except mono & eos were high (eos is always high for her, so that wasn't a surprise.) I'm reading that high monocytes indicate a bacterial infection. ??</td>
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DH and I both had blood tests once, the same week, for physicals. Both of us had high monocytes, and we both had colds. The doctor said that was the explanation, so it doesn't have to be bacterial. It just means that your body is fighting something.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">- vitamin D - 33. Not great, but not horrible.</td>
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Do you have safe drops to give her?<br><br>
Every test is a piece of the puzzle. Have you had the Genova stool test yet?
 

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We did the Great Plains stool test. It's somewhere in this thread. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngtongue.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Stick Out Tongue"> It did show bacteria, but then the stool test the GI did 2 weeks later showed none. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/shrug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shrug"> And her monocytes weren't high last time we tested (I don't think.)
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>changingseasons</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/14987658"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Oh how I wish my scanner wasn't still packed away somewhere....<br><br>
Here are just the results on the OAT that are outside the "normal" range (with range in parenthesis, category in brackets) and the descriptions that came with the results:<br>
  • <b>3-oxoglutaric - 0.77</b> (0.0-0.5) <i>[yeast/fungal]</i>
    <ul><li>Slight increase, indicating possible yeast overgrowth. Supplementation w/multi-strain probiotics (20-50 billion cfu's) recommended.</li>
    </ul>
  • <b>citric - 75.10</b> (180.0-560.0) <i>[Krebs Cycle]</i>
    <ul><li>may be due to impaired function of the Krebs cycle</li>
    </ul>
  • <b>VMA - 7.07</b> (1.0-6.6) <i>[Neurotransmitters]</i>
    <ul><li>Elevated VMA, a metabolite of spinephrine and norepinephrine, is commonly due to stress that increases catecholamine output from the adrenal gland. Stress affects adrenal glands, specifically depleting Vitamin C; supplementation of at least 1000mg buffered Vitamin C may be helpful.</li>
    </ul>
  • <b>3-hydroxybutyric - 20.87</b> (0.0-10.0) <i>[Fatty Acid Metabolites]</i>
  • <b>acetoacetic - 64.56</b> (0.0-10.0) <i>[Fatty Acid Metabolites]</i>
    <ul><li>(for previous 2 results) These ketones indicate increased metabolic utilization of fatty acids associated with diabetes mellitus, fasting, dieting (ketogenic or SCD diet), or illness such as nausea or flu, among many other causes.</li>
    </ul>
  • <b>suberic - 2.63</b> (0.0-2.0) <i>[Fatty Acid Metabolites]</i>
    <ul><li>consistent with overnight fasting or increased fat in the diet. Regardless of cause, supplementation w/L-carnitine (500-1000mg/day) may be beneficial.</li>
    </ul>
  • <b>ascorbic - 1.8</b> (10.0-200.0) <i>[Vitamin Indicators]</i>
    <ul><li>indicates a dietary defiency and/or increased utilization of antioxidants. Suggest supplementation with 1000mg per day of buffered C, divided into 2-3 doses.</li>
    </ul>
  • <b>pyridoxic - 1.11</b> (2.0-26.0) <i>[Vitamin Indicators]</i>
    <ul><li>a major metabolite of Vitamin B-6; low value indicates B-6 deficiency; may be due to low intake, malabsorption, or dysbiosis. Intake of at least 20-50mg/day is recommended.</li>
    </ul>
  • <b>oxalic - 148.50</b> (0.0-37.0) <i>[Oxalate Related]</i>
    • <br>
      )</div>
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      A lot of that relates to mitochondial dysfunction, in the Yasko world. Particularly the out of range oxy-glutaric & citric, and oxalic. Supps to take to help with that include:<br><br>
      carnitine, NADH, riboflavin, pantothenic, benfotiamine (activated B1), niacinimide, ATP. The pantothenic acid in particular is supposed to help the oxalic acid step in the kreb's cycle.<br><br>
      I get ATP off her site, the rest from iherb.
 

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I totally forgot to tell you Deb!! You were on vacation when I posted about it...<br><br>
We had a 24-hour urine oxalate run through our ped about a month(?) ago, and it's totally within the normal range. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/headscratch.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="headscratch"> So I'm really starting to question everything that came back on the stool & OAT tests. She was having a ton of symptoms at the time we tested, and she's not so much anymore, so I don't know if there was just something going on at that time that would have jacked up all the test results, or what?<br><br>
I will take a look at those supps when I have a little more time to focus. Thanks!
 

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Yeah, results can change pretty quickly - so that's very good news. You might see if your doc could run a urine amino acids test, that would be a good piece of data to have on the "not growing" issue.
 

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Yes, definitely. I will ask for that at our WBV next month!!<br><br>
eta: I was pretty shocked by the change though, because we hadn't really done anything TO change it, kwim? Well, that's not entirely true... I was giving her a tiny bit of vitamin K. But still, I would be amazed if that tiny amount totally regulated things enough to get her oxalate level from 148 to 33!
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>changingseasons</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15826038"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Yes, definitely. I will ask for that at our WBV next month!!<br><br>
eta: I was pretty shocked by the change though, because we hadn't really done anything TO change it, kwim? Well, that's not entirely true... I was giving her a tiny bit of vitamin K. But still, I would be amazed if that tiny amount totally regulated things enough to get her oxalate level from 148 to 33!</div>
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Was that when your thyroid was crashing...?
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>whoMe</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15827104"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Was that when your thyroid was crashing...?</div>
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Yep.
 
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