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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/05/world/americas/05briefs-adoption.html?ref=world" target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/05/wo...html?ref=world</a><br><br>
That is horrible. Anyone know more?
 

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Here is another article:<br><br><a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080304/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/costa_rica_baby_selling" target="_blank">http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080304/...a_baby_selling</a><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">The case involves at least three babies who changed hands since 2006, but police suspect there may be more. The ring allegedly targeted birth mothers in financial need, police said.</td>
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No <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> But it's certainly not the first time something like that has happened.
 

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So the problem is paying them? It's better when it's done for free?<br><br>
It said there were social workers involved. Maybe the social workers targeted women that were really better off not raising children. I know that sounds bad, but I can think of someone who I would pay to give her children to someone who would actually take care of them.
 

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A lot of women give up their babies because of poverty. I find a lot of the adoption industry so incredibly corrupt in this same way that I'm, sadly, not really surprised.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>phathui5</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10701397"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">It said there were social workers involved. Maybe the social workers targeted women that were really better off not raising children. I know that sounds bad, but I can think of someone who I would pay to give her children to someone who would actually take care of them.</div>
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The problem is that in some countries an industry has developed of women <i>deliberately</i> getting pregnant as a source of income, because the demand for healthy adoptable babies is so high. It has happened several times that specific countries have seen their international adoption rates skyrocket, and it can be traced back to the fees agencies pay to intermediaries/social workers, who blatantly offer incentives to women to get pregnant and give up the baby. We're talking about figures like ten thousand or more changing hands <b>per baby</b>. There's a huge incentive for corrupt practices.<br><br>
Personally I think it's one thing for kids to be available for adoption who would otherwise grow up in an orphanage and have few opportunities in life; it's quite another if a child's conception was planned from the start to be merely a source of income to the mother. It just seems like horrific exploitation to me. And what happens to the babies conceived for this purpose, that end up NOT being healthy and adoptable?
 

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That sale of ANY human being for ANY purpose is a human rights' violation IMO. The sale of a child makes me especially ill.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Payment for children is sick. Only women who cannot feed their children would ever consider letting them go if such perverse incentives were not involved. Taking a child away from her parents should be the last option in my opinion.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>angelpie545</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10702341"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">That sale of ANY human being for ANY purpose is a human rights' violation IMO. The sale of a child makes me especially ill.</div>
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<br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/nod.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="nod"> Thank you!
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>angelpie545</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10702341"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">That sale of ANY human being for ANY purpose is a human rights' violation IMO. The sale of a child makes me especially ill.</div>
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Exactly!<br><br><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Mahtob</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Payment for children is sick. Only women who cannot feed their children would ever consider letting them go if such perverse incentives were not involved. Taking a child away from her parents should be the last option in my opinion.</div>
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I completely agree.
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>angelpie545</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10702341"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">That sale of ANY human being for ANY purpose is a human rights' violation IMO. The sale of a child makes me especially ill.</div>
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Totally agree. But it is also NOT OKAY for anyone else to make money off of adoption either and that happens all.the.time. To me there is no difference between the parents making money and an adoption agency, etc making money.
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>wednesday</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10702155"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">The problem is that in some countries an industry has developed of women <i>deliberately</i> getting pregnant as a source of income, because the demand for healthy adoptable babies is so high. It has happened several times that specific countries have seen their international adoption rates skyrocket, and it can be traced back to the fees agencies pay to intermediaries/social workers, who blatantly offer incentives to women to get pregnant and give up the baby. We're talking about figures like ten thousand or more changing hands <b>per baby</b>. There's a huge incentive for corrupt practices.<br><br>
Personally I think it's one thing for kids to be available for adoption who would otherwise grow up in an orphanage and have few opportunities in life; it's quite another if a child's conception was planned from the start to be merely a source of income to the mother. It just seems like horrific exploitation to me. And what happens to the babies conceived for this purpose, that end up NOT being healthy and adoptable?</div>
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How is this different from being a surrogate mother?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">it's quite another if a child's conception was planned from the start to be merely a source of income to the mother.</td>
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">How is this different from being a surrogate mother?</td>
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I would ask how it is alike. Being a surrogate mother is just taking care of the baby under circumstances that the mother cannot, for a set period of time, for the mother. Conceiving a child in order to sell it is none of these things.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>PrettyBird</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10707412"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Totally agree. But it is also NOT OKAY for anyone else to make money off of adoption either and that happens all.the.time. To me there is no difference between the parents making money and an adoption agency, etc making money.</div>
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It depends on what you mean by making money. Their are lawyer's fees, travel arrangements, sometimes pregnancy medical costs, that the adoption agency handles. They also need to cover their staff salaries. I don't know of any adoption agency that "profits" and makes excess revenue, at least not in this country.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Their are lawyer's fees, travel arrangements, sometimes pregnancy medical costs, that the adoption agency handles. They also need to cover their staff salaries. I don't know of any adoption agency that "profits" and makes excess revenue, at least not in this country.</td>
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The very fact that they are supporting a small bureaucracy means they are profiting. Their jobs exist because people are willing to pay money to get a baby, and for no other reason.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>SarahLi</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10714239"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I don't know of any adoption agency that "profits" and makes excess revenue, at least not in this country.</div>
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Assuming you're in the US, it's not a domestic adoption problem. It's mainly a problem in developing nations where most international adoptees are coming from. Several countries have all but shut down any international adoption of their citizens over this issue, to the point that children can only be adopted by foreigners who are blood relatives.<br><br>
As for the question from boysrus about surrogacy, I'm not quite sure what you're meaning to ask. It's a different, albeit related, topic with its own set of ethical issues. Quite a few countries prohibit surrogacy on ethical grounds.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>boysrus</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10708345"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">How is this different from being a surrogate mother?</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">: In this case, women concieved and carried children who they did not plan to raise in order to help another woman who might not otherwise have a family. She was compensated in return.<br><br>
In the case of surrogacy, women concieved and carried children who they did not plan to raise in order to help another woman who might not otherwise have a family. She was compensated in return.<br><br>
Sure, it seems a little crude, but honestly, if these women called themselves surrogates, it wouldn't have made the news.
 

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In the case of surrogacy when the people who are the surrogates are targetted because they are poor - such as people do to Indian women - it isn't different.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I beg to differ. In the first place, we know that the baby is wanted (ordered, so to speak) in the case of surrogate mothers. In the second place, the roles and responsibilities are clear in that situation. In the third place, here, we do not even know if the women wanted to give up the babies, or if they were coerced while under extreme psychological duress.
 
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