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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Unfortunately, ds #4 is going to be born in the hospital <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> .<br><br>
After the marathon labor with #3, ds fell asleep after the birth. I was worn out, and dh was useless. I actually had to let my baby leave my sight for awhile, because I couldn't take care of him! One of the awfullest moments of my life.<br><br>
This time, I'm taking my sister with us in case dh flakes out again. Her job will be to protect the baby, no matter what.<br><br>
I'm thinking of having a T-shirt made for her, with PENIS PROTECTOR in huge letters on the front.<br><br>
In smaller print it will say, "I am authorized by (my name) to protect Toby R. from circumcision, eye drops, Hep B vaccination, vitamin K injection, PKU heel stick, pacifiers, formula, and glucose water. If you don't believe me, read the birth plan in the file again. Toby's mother really will sue you if you inflict these practices on him."<br><br>
Do you think that would be coming on too strong?
 

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LOL, I think that's a great idea! You might want to make it a bit humorous, so as not to offend the nurses. I bet they'll be talking about your "Penis Protector" shirt for a long time <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> Um, might wanna nix the "suing" part, though....that might cause some unnecessary defensiveness.<br><br>
I think you also need to make a matching set for Toby to be worn right after birth: on the shirt...."I'm a BOOB man....no formula or sugar water please!" on the pants (in the front)..."a big NO sign (circle with line through it) with the word CIRCUMCISM or a graphic of a knife in the middle"<br><br>
Hmmm, these would be easy to make....maybe I could do some lact-intactivist wear <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br><br>
Lisa
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Lisa, I love it!<br><br>
I agree, I'll take the edge off. And I'll definitely make some onesies for Toby!<br><br>
We could be on to something here...
 

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Cute idea.Definately need a *protector* these days,which so sad!!!<br>
I am glad I never had to birth in hospitals even though that is what dh wanted.<br>
sara
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>spyiispy</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Um, might wanna nix the "suing" part, though....that might cause some unnecessary defensiveness.</div>
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They will be likely defensive no matter what you do, in my experience...<br><br>
But I LOVE the idea of the clothing line!! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"> I'd've bought a shirt and onesie!!
 

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I had a tshirt I bought from NOCIRC that I had put on my youngest in the hospital. It was "Circumcision" in red on white with a red "no" symbol around it.
 

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I've read the idea somewhere (maybe on these boards?) to write on your son's lower belly "Do Not Circ." Nobody could miss that!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
if NOCIRC has one, I'd justas soon throw some money their way. I am going to make a shirt for my sister!
 

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That is awesome!!<br><br>
I want to see pictures if you do it! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/love.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="love"><br><br>
I think it would help, expessially if it is humerous as well as serving a purpose. It will show you put a lot of thought into your decisions, and are serious about them, and will also give the staff something out of the ordinairy to talk about that day.
 

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The "Boob man - no circ" clothing sounds great! There would be a real market for it. The "Penis Protector" could be like a "godparent" for intactivist families. I'm just envisioning a whole ritual while the mom is in labor "Do you vow to watch over little boy ... while his parents are unable and ensure he is not genitally mutilated?" Talk about something to make the nurse talk <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1"><br><br>
I think the NOCIRC onesies are great for any age infant <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> But I don't know if they would have helped much in our hospital - everytime my son was brought back from the nursery he was wearing a different, hospital provided outfit!<br>
We wrote NO Circumcision in red marker across his bassinet card since he was almost always in that (and across every hospital form when we were admitted )<br><br>
We STILL had a nurse scare us to death by coming in the second day and saying cheerfully "It's time for his circumcision!" The Pediatrician was there for a totally different reason, of course - she just made the assumption. DH and I both yelled "No" loud enough to be heard two floors down, I think. On second thought, we could have written No Circ with permanent marker across the hospital clothes too- They gave us a bag of the ones he had used to take home - is that normal?<br><br>
Rooming in is the best protection - stupid me, I believed the nurses when they kept coming to get my son for various reasons and not bringing him back until he cried - found out later from my pediatrician that it was just to "let the mom rest" and he should have been allowed to stay with me the whole time. It made establishing breastfeeding really difficult until we were home <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"><br><br>
But at least he's intact - I'll be better at guarding the next ds too...<br><br>
-MQ
 

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I shared shifts with my sister and brother in law around the clock caring for brother in ICU. At first nurses were stand-offish and cold. I hate it too when I think someone is judging over my shoulder. When we made it apparant that we loved our brother and wanted to help him get the best care they softened up. I'd bank more on the possibility that they actually want to help other people and that anyone there with you is to help too. If the shirt gets them working with you in addition to keeping your wishes clear what a bonus.
 

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Just so ya know (and i think your idea is really cute!), they CANNOT circ unless mom signs for it to be done (not even dad can, mom has to). So there's no need to write it on his belly. Same for Hep B.<br><br>
As for the Vitamin K, eyedrops and PKU--PLEASE CHECK W/YOUR DOC and HOSPITAL....I've had some Pt's wait till they got there and by then it's too late-you already signed the informed consent for care, which includes all routine procedures at that hospital(some states even require PKU and possibly the others). Some doctors will tell you straigh away "well, these are the tests I do. If you don't like them, then I can't be your doctor" and in a sad way, you have to respect that....<br><br>
--kelly
 

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What Kelly said IS true. But while in labor.......your focus needs to be on the baby and all your energy reserved for that task alone. You do not need to be inspecting and dissecting hospital fine print. I had my son in the hospital with a midwife and I made it very clear before we went there AND the day of, that there would be NO Hep B shot, no Vit K and no poking, prodding nor pricking of my baby. I also insisted that he not be taken out of my sight. Anything they *had* to do could be done right in the room, and it was. I did not want my son bathed...he was gently wiped off. A sign on your door......"Gentle Birth in Progress...Please Be Kind" might also help. I've seen some of those signs. Plus......a large-sized index card taped to the inside of the hospital bassinet might remind nurses that could easily forget about your wishes in the rush of the day (re: the no Hep B shot, Vit K, etc). Keep in mind you're not their only patient.....some honest mistakes could easily be made. I had to sign some waivers......but it all went according to plan and my baby was not subjected to any unwanted procedures.<br><br>
You *are* on their turf......but I think with some good planning and a pinch of kindness (maybe a basket of muffins for the nurses on duty)....things will be just fine.<br><br>
Blessed birth to you.....<br><br>
Lisa
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>CookieMonsterMommy</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Just so ya know (and i think your idea is really cute!), they CANNOT circ unless mom signs for it to be done (not even dad can, mom has to).</div>
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Kelly:<br><br>
That may be true in some states but in most states, either parent can sign the consent form. We've had mothers here who refused to sign the consent and the father did and the boy was circumcised. It does happen. I also think that in the case of a minor mother, the parents can sign the consent form.<br><br><br><br><br>
Frank
 

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Frank-here, and in many other states, a minor mom cannot be over-ridden by her parents in the case of her baby (unless of course there are other issues and the baby's grandparents have been declared the legal guardians, but that's a whole other ball game). Reproduction has different rules than all other (ie-a 15 y/o girls parents can "force" her to have let's say knee surgery, but cannot "force" her to get an abortion, or even prenatal care, etc)<br><br>
The reason that they don't let dad sign (in many states) is because how do you know it's really dad? I've seen them go so far as to REFUSE to call a baby black when the mom was white, (dad was obviously black) for the sole reason that we know he came out of mom, but are we 100% sure that's really daddy? I've only seen them do this once, and that's because mom had passed away.<br><br>
But like i said, i really only know my state....my biggest point was: Let the doc and hospital know WAY before hand, and know the rules....you may have to do some doctor shopping in the near future....<br><br>
Best Wishes,<br>
kelly
 

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You're right Kelly. The law varies in every state and the ethics of every medical provider varies in every hospital and office.<br><br>
I know of cases where either the father or mother had the son circumcised against the wishes of the other with the doctor clearly knowing that the other parent was against it. I also know of a case where a wife had her 40 year old husband circumcised against his will while he was under for a vasectomy. Any ethical doctor would refuse to perform the procedure if he/she knew that one of the parents were against it but there are doctors out there who are only looking for someone to sign the form. They don't care if it is the father or mother and they don't care what the other parents wishes are. If the woman is an unmarried minor, the parent's consent is enough. If the child is an orphan, they will do it even though there are adoptive parents waiting to take the child and the adoptive parents are against it. They either want to circumcise so badly or they are wanting the money so badly that they are willing to void their professional ethics to do it.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br>
Frank
 

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I recently saw a "baby story" type story, it was filmed a few years ago, I think 2001... anyway- the mom was a real "natural birth" type- I think she did Hypnobirth... anyway- the show was actually done in reverse- so the circumcision came before the birth which comes before the labor. The circumcision part where the mom was crying and totally not wanting to do it. It was against everything she was about... but the dad was all for circumcising and he goes in with the Dr (a woman) and all the show is the Dr putting a glob of what I assume was EMLA on the baby's penis. Then they show the mom all worn out and talking about what a stressful day it has been, and the dad is holding the baby who is sleeping- and the mom is summing up his whole visit- how he arrived on the day she went into labor and he leaves on the day his son is circumcised. As this backwards story unfolds- we learn that this couple is seperated and the father is now living in another city. Eventually we see him "arrive" at the airport shortly before the mom goes into labor.<br><br>
The more the story unfolded the more I was amazed at the doctor who would take that baby to be circumcised from a mom who was speaking out against it- right up to the very end... saying clearly, "no I don't want to do this, this is awful, this is unnatural..." and ignoring her CLEAR STATEMENTS in order to comply with the wishes of this man who was not going to stay married to this woman and was not even going to live in the town where this child grows up... was not even going to be there with his son THAT VERY NIGHT.<br><br>
And what position was the mom in to assert herself when she was now in a position to be raising a new baby by herself... someone who might be hoping very much that the child's father would have a change of heart and stay with them in their home city... what position was she in to assert herself... and yet that WOMAN doctor- ignored the CLEAR situation of DURESS and circumcised a child against his mother's wishes instead of saying, "I can not in good concience make an irreversable action against this child in the face of such great family turmoil, it would be unethical."<br><br>
I think that mom clearly has a lawsuit case. I'm curious what type of a role that "father" and his circumcised penis have played in his son's life since they day he mutilated him.<br><br>
Love Sarah
 

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I saw that Sarah. That was somewhere in Canada... Probably Toronto, but I forget. I, too, thought it odd that she let him take the boy to be circumcised even though he was flying away only the very next day or so!
 
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