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Discussion Starter #1
I've received several PMs asking what whooping cough is doing in this country. I've said I'd answer here.<br><br>
Just because we hang off the end of the earth doesn't mean that disease doesn't happen.<br><br>
Whooping cough is rampant in this country and the reason they are saying nothing publicly, is because they know the vaccine is a dud. The as much as admit so in this report:<br><br><a href="http://www.surv.esr.cri.nz/PDF_surveillance/NZPHSR/2004/NZPHSR2004December.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.surv.esr.cri.nz/PDF_surve...04December.pdf</a><br><br>
It's a large file, 1.6 mb... but download it.<br><br>
Look at the second page on the top right side of the page and you will see a new term.<br><br>
This vaccine brought in in 2001, was touted with the best ever efficacy and here they are saying the "The effective vaccination rate may in some cases be as low as 33%"<br><br>
So I think we are going to see new terminology at some point, where vaccine which are lousy have "effective" vaccination rates <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="rolleyes">:<br><br>
There are four other reports that those with a mind for these things might wish to have a look at:<br><br><a href="http://www.surv.esr.cri.nz/PDF_surveillance/AnnSurvRpt/2001AnnualSurvRpt.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.surv.esr.cri.nz/PDF_surve...ualSurvRpt.pdf</a><br><br><br><a href="http://www.surv.esr.cri.nz/PDF_surveillance/AnnSurvRpt/2002AnnualSurvRpt.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.surv.esr.cri.nz/PDF_surve...ualSurvRpt.pdf</a><br><br><br><a href="http://www.surv.esr.cri.nz/PDF_surveillance/AnnSurvRpt/2003AnnualSurvRpt.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.surv.esr.cri.nz/PDF_surve...ualSurvRpt.pdf</a><br><br><br><a href="http://www.surv.esr.cri.nz/PDF_surveillance/AnnSurvRpt/2004AnnualSurvRpt.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.surv.esr.cri.nz/PDF_surve...ualSurvRpt.pdf</a><br><br><br>
All of them are large. All very revealing.<br><br>
There are other reports and tables worth reading on this site, but its a bit of a mission to find them.<br><br>
This should answer questions asked so far.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
If you just want comparison tables, the most recent up to the end of 2004 is this one:<br><br><a href="http://www.surv.esr.cri.nz/PDF_surveillance/AnnSurvRpt/2004AnnualSurvTables.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.surv.esr.cri.nz/PDF_surve...SurvTables.pdf</a>
 

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This is great info -- thank you.<br><br>
Something that people don't understand and that doctors are now just sniffing around is that even if a vaccine produces some sort of immunity in someone, <b>that "protection" wears off.</b> At some point in one's life, you are no longer "immune." And pertussis is so contagious that you have thousands of adults with it who are not diagnosed because it's not the thing to do. And because the vax doesn't work well, it's very likely that even vaxed children catch pertussis from others.<br><br>
ETA: I would imagine that as the CDC catches on to this, they are going to start recommending pertussis booster shots along with flu shots. It is going to become the next "epidemic" even though it was there all along.
 

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I like seeing my ideas confirmed and that is that despite these vaccinations, all the diseases come and go as they please in frequency.
 

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Thanks for the info <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> I'm gonna read it all when I get some peace and quiet <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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Good stuff.<br><br>
It is so disturbing to me that they play down the percentage of children that react very badly to the pertussis vaccination. In my case, they didn't even want to report it, I had to.
 

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I haven't had time to read it yet, but I do want to add that children who have had whooping cough have way less chance of getting asthma.<br><br>
So, maybe somehow it strengthens the lungs?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I've just compiled the whooping cough death data for a graph, and the hospitalisation data. The deaths graph goes from 1872 to now, and up until about the 50's whooping cough went in two year cycles apart from the depression years, and second world war, where it was constant. Then I think with the introduction of vaccines that may have disturbed the circulation sufficiently, and given enough temporary immunity, to spread it out to four years. But I notice now, its going back to more of a two-yearly/constant pattern.<br><br>
The other argument could be that doctors just didn't report it when they assumed the vaccine worked, but I don't think that holds water, because there is definitely an increase. I think the whole vaccines thing has so messed up the "natural" scheme of things that their only "solution" will be 5 yearly boosters for everyone.<br><br>
This pdf is interesting:<br><br><a href="http://www.contemporarypediatrics.com/contpeds/data/articlestandard/contpeds/202005/160943/article.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.contemporarypediatrics.co...43/article.pdf</a>
 

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MT..thanks for telling us those are all PDF files...I appreciate it. I hate opening a link only to find it goes to my slow moving pdf files. It's nice to have a warning.
 

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Thanks for all that info. I will read it over ASAP (saved it to a file so I don't forget or lose it<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br><br>
One thing which has struck me re' pertussis is that the epidemiology of late seems to be following a rather familiar trend for some other "VPD"s, namely, that the vaccine "wears off" and/or confers weaker/generaly inferior immunity as opposed to the natural immunity, and over time, we see the disease shift into older populations and then into younger ones, as a result of both more inadvertant exposures and loss of maternal immunities (in some cases)<br><br>
Now, the common rebuttal to this theory is that the disease (pertussis) does NOT confer immunity of any significantly longer or greater duration than the vaccine does; that BOTH immunities wane in a similar fashion.<br><br>
But that is just a theory, as far as I have been able to tell.<br><br>
Pertussis immunity is rather unusual/not well understood, being not tied to specific antibodies in the same way as many other diseases.<br><br>
But the general consensus prior to mass vaccination seems to be that immunity from a case of pertussis was "lifelong" or so nearly so as to make the point virtually moot.<br><br>
Post mass vaccination, we see loss of immunity as soon as 3-5 yrs after the last vaccination, and no immunity in teens and young adults is considered common, the NORM, not the exception.<br><br>
There is much evidence, imo, in support of the assumption that natural immunity is superior to vaccine immunity in the case of the pertussis. One Italian study found that a very high percentage of older teens tested who'd HAD pertussis as children/unvaxed displayed indications of strong immunity. Compare that to the current assumption that MOST vaxed older teens are not immune.<br><br>
Concurrently, we are seeing huge increases in the infection on infants, those most likely to suffer severe complications including death, and studies have shown that the most common source of exposure for this age group is older children and adults with waning vaccine immunity.<br><br>
OTOH, at least one study found that many fully vaccinated PRESCHOOL aged children were NOT immune to infection with pertussis and were capable of spreading the infection to others, even though they themselves tended to exhibit subclincal infections. (another similarity to some other vaccines, which have proven to be relatively effective at preventing clinical illness but NOT so effective at preventing infection and transmission)<br><br>
So I think that not only is the vaccine far less effective than widely claimed/considered, what we are seeing is the long-term result of replacing natural immunity with vaccine immunity, with a much larger percentage of adults and older children being non-immune and capable of transmitting the infection (which is often subclinical or milder in these age groups as compared to in the younger age groups in which it "prefers" to occur, and who more often exhibit clinical symptoms).<br><br>
I also think there may be some maternal immunity which has been lost with the loss of widespread natural immunity, which also leaves infants more vulnerable to infection. JMO.<br><br>
All in all, I find it interesting and amusing that the "experts" tend to respond with comments like "we just don't know what is going on" in the face of record high vaccination levels and concurrent record levels of incidence. I'm sure they would "know" what was going on if vax levels were even slightly lower than usual, lol!<br><br>
Fact is, imo, they know darn good and well what is happening, but simply canmnot bring themselves to admit it. The best they can do is develop a booster (which will, I'm sure, solve the whole problem forever.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1"><br><br>
Lilith<br>
Mom to John, 13 (who suffered 9 hrs of high-pitched screaming and convulsions and a SEVERE local reaction, followed by 12 hrs of unrousable "sleep" following his 2 mth DPT)<br>
And Sage, 6
 

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Natural immunity to Pertussis is undoubtedly superior to anything produced by the vaccine. The aluminum in the killed vaccine stimulates an antibody response but not a cell-mediated response. Natural infection stimulates the entire immune system.
 
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