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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay, yesterday I researched polio. Both the disease and the vax. I'm confused because when I talk about non-vaxing it's the one disease that people seem to be really sold on vaxing for yet my findings found .....<br><br>
There is no wild polio in the US anymore.<br><br>
The last case of wild polio was in '79.<br><br>
Cases of wild polio dx in the US were in people who contracted it in another country.<br><br>
Wild polio is not a life threatening disease in about 95 % of cases.<br><br>
The scary nerve and muscle destroying polio make up about 1 % of wild polio cases.<br><br>
There are two types of polio vax. Oral (live) and Injected (dead).<br><br>
The oral vax is linked to vaxed caused polio.<br><br>
The scary nerve and muscle affected cases of vax caused polio makes up about 1 % of vax caused polio.<br><br><br><br><br>
Now, lots of this came from the CDC. Is it true? I can't understand why one would vax against polio given this information.<br><br>
Finally, assuming a kid was not in a day care type situation with lots of diapers being changed by a single person and therefore lots of possible poop spreading with shedding polio from newly vaxed kids.... What are the chances of a non-vaxed kid getting polio? Seems really rare.
 

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Well first of all, you can only "shed" polio through oral/fecal route with the oral polio vaccine..the U.S. doesn't use this one anymore.<br>
I don't know why more people vaccinate for polio, we don't. However, I think its the thought that it CAN come back because of travel and things. Even if my kids caught wild polio from someone who was traveling, the fact that its very rare to contract paralytic polio crosses the vaccine off my list.<br>
Looking forward to others answers.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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It's true.<br><br>
OPV isn't used in the US anymore due to VAPP. Thus, there is zero risk of transmission from shedding.<br><br>
IPV doesn't prevent infection or transmission, it attempts to prevent that rare 1% from being paralytic.<br><br>
The reason people would vax for polio is if polio was present in a population and your risk of getting wild polio was about equal to your risk of getting VAPP you may get the vaccine in order to prevent the risk of serious polio infection.<br><br>
IMO, IPV is a joke. OPV was very useful in ridding the US of wild polio...it works well if the risks are so high that you don't mind the fact that you may get polio from the vaccine.
 

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Is there an age limit for how and when paralytic polio can affect the individual? The braces that used to be seen in the old days seemed to be necessary for children... could adults be similarly affected if they got polio as an adult? I have always wondered this but have never seen it addressed or discussed.
 

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<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">could adults be similarly affected if they got polio as an adult?</td>
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Definitely. It used to mostly be children who were effected because polio was endemic (sort of like rotavirus now) and adults were generally immune.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the information!
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mamakay</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10812785"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Definitely. It used to mostly be children who were effected because polio was endemic (sort of like rotavirus now) and adults were generally immune.</div>
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so this begs several questions:<br><br>
where were all of the cases of paralytic polio before the big epidemic?<br><br>
were there other factors that caused the epidemic and rise in cases of paralytic polio?<br><br>
is it possible that polio is still circulating currently, just not causing cases of paralytic polio (or it's being called something else...gbs or aseptic meningitis)??????<br><br>
if there have been no cases of wild-type polio in almost 30 years, does that render polio eradicated in the united states? especially since we've not had any issues with recurrence since having switched over to the ipv, which is clearly not as effective as opv as well as not stopping transmission, which throws the whole herd immunity thing out of the window.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>kidspiration</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10812976"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">if there have been no cases of wild-type polio in almost 30 years, does that render polio eradicated in the united states?</div>
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My understanding is that polio has been declared officially eradicated in the western hemisphere.<br><br>
-Angela
 

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What about the popular musings here on MDC that we really don't know if polio is in fact eradicated because no one is actively looking for polio. It might very well be circulating (with IPV vaccine keeping the paralytic symptom at bay).
 

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Excuse me if this is a silly question....but if if paralytic polio only makes up 1% of cases...why were there SO many people with it at one time? I know my grandfather almost died from polio and his sister did die. He recalled many many people being paralyzed (it was a miracle his legs even work now). Is the 1% a current number or was it 1% back then as well? I'm a bit confused. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/headscratch.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="headscratch">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Kimmiepie</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10813198"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Excuse me if this is a silly question....but if if paralytic polio only makes up 1% of cases...why were there SO many people with it at one time? I know my grandfather almost died from polio and his sister did die. He recalled many many people being paralyzed (it was a miracle his legs even work now). Is the 1% a current number or was it 1% back then as well? I'm a bit confused. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/headscratch.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="headscratch"></div>
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It was one in 1,000 cases of infection to paralysis back in the 1950's.<br><br>
It was more like one in 4 in my rural farming family, too.<br><br>
What's up with that is anyone's guess...
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Kimmiepie</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10813198"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Excuse me if this is a silly question....but if if paralytic polio only makes up 1% of cases...why were there SO many people with it at one time? I know my grandfather almost died from polio and his sister did die. He recalled many many people being paralyzed (it was a miracle his legs even work now). Is the 1% a current number or was it 1% back then as well? I'm a bit confused. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/headscratch.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="headscratch"></div>
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It was 1% then too.<br><br>
Honestly, part of the issue is that in the "epidemic" no one was actually tested to see if they HAD the polio virus. There are a number of viruses that can cause the same symptoms. There are also chemical reactions that can cause the same symptoms. There is no record of how many of the cases of "polio" were actually caused by the polio virus. We'll never know.<br><br>
-Angela
 

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I know that the impression left by paralytic polio on my husband from seeing peers with it felt a whole lot greater than 1 in 1,000 to my husband.<br><br>
Postponing for now this vaccine has been a big issue for us. It wasn't until DH saw Dr. Gordon's video where he addresses the polio issue that DH felt at all comfortable with not doing this one right now.
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>alegna</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10813500"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Honestly, part of the issue is that in the "epidemic" no one was actually tested to see if they HAD the polio virus. There are a number of viruses that can cause the same symptoms. There are also chemical reactions that can cause the same symptoms. There is no record of how many of the cases of "polio" were actually caused by the polio virus. We'll never know.<br><br>
-Angela</div>
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I am not challenging you but can you provide information that verifies that no one was being tested? Other than DDT, what other chemical reactions cause similar symptoms?<br><br>
If we will never know because no one was testing, then it is still entirely likely that most of those could have been in fact polio, right?
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>anewmama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10813547"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I am not challenging you but can you provide information that verifies that no one was being tested? Other than DDT, what other chemical reactions cause similar symptoms?<br><br>
If we will never know because no one was testing, then it is still entirely likely that most of those could have been in fact polio, right?</div>
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I haven't kept the links, but the historical records show that there was no testing for the virus.<br><br>
Sure- it's possible.<br><br>
The think is that USUALLY polio is so mild that people don't even know their sick at ALL. So if a whole elementary school had it then yes, a few kids would have shown paralytic symptoms.<br><br>
-Angela
 

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<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>anewmama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10813547"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I am not challenging you but can you provide information that verifies that no one was being tested?</div>
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They talk in here about how some of the polio outbreaks from the 1950's turned out to be other viruses, they later discovered.<br><br><a href="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=783214" target="_blank">http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=783214</a>
 

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one of the things that i've always mused about polio, since it is mainly an intestinal virus, was the state of intestinal health/gut flora of the children of that time.<br><br>
this happened to children who were much less likely to have been breastfed. formula feeding was the norm back then.<br><br>
in addition, consumption of processed foods was really starting to rise.<br><br>
add to that, the use of live virus vaccine as well as environmental toxins and you have the makings of an epidemic.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"><br><br>
that is...if it was even polio at all...which is what mamakay mentioned.
 

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<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Kimmiepie</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10813198"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Excuse me if this is a silly question....but if if paralytic polio only makes up 1% of cases...why were there SO many people with it at one time? I know my grandfather almost died from polio and his sister did die. He recalled many many people being paralyzed (it was a miracle his legs even work now). Is the 1% a current number or was it 1% back then as well? I'm a bit confused. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/headscratch.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="headscratch"></div>
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Another thing about the paralytic polio epidemic, is that the treatments were pretty barbaric. So, it is hard to say how much of the severe stuff was actually due to the treatment of what might, otherwise, have been mild cases. I find the discrepancy between the stats and my parents' memories to be confusing too, as well as the discrepancy between the stats. It seems like you can draw different numbers just from how you extrapolate the pink book data.
 

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Hmm very good points. I never thought about the treatment aspect of it.<br><br>
I had heard that people weren't tested for polio, and I brought this up to my grandfather as well as sent him a link on the DDT thing. What's interesting is he said that around the time he contracted polio that he had been working near DDT but to his knowledge none of it had come into contact with him (he explained this and it made sense but now I can't remember). BUT he said that he actually WAS tested for polio and it came out positive. He says there is no doubt what he has was really polio. So if he really was tested, I imagine most of his peers were too.<br><br>
Was there a reason they wouldn't/couldn't test?
 

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One of the interesting bits about the way polio works:<br><br>
the virus usually just hangs out in the digestion, where at worst it can cause a mild upset tummy...so how does it get into the nervous system...something screws things up, that is how. So what sort of stuff gives polio the boost into the nervous system?<br><br>
DDT, arsenic, other toxic chemicals. And stuff that messes with the integrity of the digestive system could do it too, like sugar and refined foods.<br><br>
And my favorite? Vaccines apparently made it possible for polio viruses to attach themselves to nerves. It was called provocation polio and is actually mentioned occasionally in contemporary documents. Usually the limb that was injected was the only part of the body affected.<br><br>
So, if someone had polio in their system AND simultaneous exposure to DDT or arsenic or any of a number of other nasty substances, then they were very likely to get terribly ill. This would explain why polio sometimes occurred in clusters. A bunch of people living on one farm where they had both polio exposure and DDT being sprayed at the same time.<br><br>
The other piece I'm wondering is whether natural immunity to polio worked if the toxin exposure was fairly big. Because there were outbreaks in adults and in the normal course of life they would all have been immune...
 
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