Mothering Forum banner

1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,878 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Teen girl killed by pornographer:<br><br><a href="http://www.koin.com/Global/story.asp?S=7002440" target="_blank">http://www.koin.com/Global/story.asp?S=7002440</a><br><br>
"Police say murder reveals Portland sex culture":<br><br><a href="http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_083007_news_porn_murder_egan.87868e3c.html" target="_blank">http://www.kgw.com/news-local/storie....87868e3c.html</a><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Portland Police spokesman Sgt. Brian Schmautz said the sex industry in Portland, Oregon is flourishing thanks to liberal interpretations of the First Amendment and a public willing to ignore crime that goes along with it.<br><br>
“The laws are lax. Citizens basically turn a blind eye to the criminal activity and we can’t even get elected officials to care about it,” said Schmautz.<br><br>
One Web site boasts Portland will emerge as a “major adult entertainment capital in the next decade.”</td>
</tr></table></div>
The victim got into pornography at a "legal" age, 18. She responded to an ad for "models" through a weekly alternative newspaper. Those ads run every week and have for years. I remember almost replying to one of those when I was 18 and needed my first job. It didn't say "pornography" or "adult" or anything that would tip you off as to the nature of the job unless you were already savvy enough to know. At 18, I had a bad enough feeling about it not to call, but wondered if it probably really was just artistic nudes, like the description said.<br><br>
Portland is becoming famous for its "alternative" sex culture. Many people think that if a porn publication or film or website is labeled "alternative" the women involved must be treated fairly and must be doing it just for fun. This is not the case.<br><br>
At root, porn is about the slicing up, selling, and consuming of women's bodies. Cases like this just illustrate it all the more clearly.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
13,072 Posts
I am really torn about this. On one hand, I think it can be done well and I know a couple of people who have been happy with their experiences. On the other hand, I know a few people who were really chewed up and spit out by the industry in the worst ways. Truly horrible situations. I have found in my experiences, it's few and far between who like the work and are treated well.<br><br>
So I'm conflicted, basically.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,776 Posts
What?! Are you saying strippers and hookers aren't really making good money working their way through medical or law school? (Sarcasm. It's disgusting how many people believe that line of BS.)<br><br>
I've read that Portland has the highest per capita rate of sex industry establishments in the country, due to our liberal laws on zoning and 1st ammendment rights.<br><br>
It's sad, considering what a great city it is otherwise. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> It's disturbing how many girls and women I know who have been involved in the sex industry here. None were "positive" experiences. (And no, none were working their way through law school.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,010 Posts
sorry, but how are the title of this threa and the story related?<br><br><br>
This is the count of a girl who was in a relationship with a pornographer who was killed and then the pornographer attempted suicide.....<br><br><br>
How does this encompass 'hatred of women'? Not being snarky, I am not getting the connection.<br><br><br><br>
Sad for the girl and the people who survive her.... But this type of crime happens daily in america and it doesnt require someone to be in the porn business for it to happen. one publicized recently was Chris Benoit from the WWE (Prof Wrestling) killing his wife child and then comitting suicide.... Not taking away from this story, the only link I see to mysogony is that domestic violence is perpetrated by men who could be considered haters of women....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,010 Posts
Read the second story in its entirety now.... the second story is very sad.... and now I can see how it might not have been considered a domestic dispute.... the first story only lists them as a couple.... hmmm need all sides and sadly one side was silenced.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,813 Posts
All I can say right now, is that I feel sick.<br><br>
I'll post an intelligent response when I've had a chance to process this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,878 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>gottaknit</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9053629"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">What?! Are you saying strippers and hookers aren't really making good money working their way through medical or law school? (Sarcasm. It's disgusting how many people believe that line of BS.)<br><br>
I've read that Portland has the highest per capita rate of sex industry establishments in the country, due to our liberal laws on zoning and 1st ammendment rights.<br><br>
It's sad, considering what a great city it is otherwise. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> It's disturbing how many girls and women I know who have been involved in the sex industry here. None were "positive" experiences. (And no, none were working their way through law school.)</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Yep. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> I've also known way too many women here who got harassed and hit up because men assumed they must be a sex worker. Not because they were dressed up any certain way, either, they were wearing anything from sweats and t-shirts to office attire, but simply because they were a woman between 18-50 walking alone on the sidewalk. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/splat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="splat"> It happened to me a lot when I was pregnant. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
924 Posts
yeah... once, when I was 8 mo. pregnant, I was sitting at a bus stop on the corner of 82nd and Stark and some guys at the stoplight made lewd comments and asked me how much I charge for an hour. It was sick.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,252 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>harpyr</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9054400"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">yeah... once, when I was 8 mo. pregnant, I was sitting at a bus stop on the corner of 82nd and Stark and some guys at the stoplight made lewd comments and asked me how much I charge for an hour. It was sick.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
In college I had a bunch of friends who were exchange students from Korea. One of the women told me that on her first day outside of her apartment in America, two college guys pulled over and asked "How much?" She pretended to not understand (and always dressed very modestly, so she definitely didn't look like a street walker). She was completely humiliated and felt enormously violated, practically burst into tears while she was telling me. All she kept saying how dirty she felt. But these are the ideals that porn fosters- the objectification of women- women are merely sex objects. So much for first impressions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,776 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>CherryBomb</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9058142"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Obviously you just hate sex, BSD.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/bigeyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bigeyes"> I'm assuming this is an inside joke...?<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">yeah... once, when I was 8 mo. pregnant, I was sitting at a bus stop on the corner of 82nd and Stark and some guys at the stoplight made lewd comments and asked me how much I charge for an hour. It was sick.</td>
</tr></table></div>
Yech. My sister got this kind of treatment a lot when she lived in Hollywood and walked to the laundromat on Sandy Blvd., in the late 80's- early 90's. Thankfully, by the time I moved to that area it had "cleaned up" a lot, but there were still a lot of prostitutes (esp by the Starbucks at 42nd - bizarre.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,878 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>CherryBomb</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9058142"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Obviously you just hate sex, BSD.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
The funny thing about that common slur is, so what if someone DID hate sex? I mean some people don't enjoy food, they just eat for fuel. Some people don't enjoy opera, or hiking, or petting dogs. So? They don't HAVE to like it! And furthermore, in this culture where women's experience of sexuality is so conflicted and mixed and coopted, who could blame a woman for just throwing in the towel and hating it? Really, it's a totally reasonable response to the situation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,878 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>gottaknit</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9058881"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Yech. My sister got this kind of treatment a lot when she lived in Hollywood and walked to the laundromat on Sandy Blvd., in the late 80's- early 90's. Thankfully, by the time I moved to that area it had "cleaned up" a lot, but there were still a lot of prostitutes (esp by the Starbucks at 42nd - bizarre.)</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Once when I was waiting for my bus on Beaverton-Hillsdale hwy (about 8 years ago) a guy pulled over, opened his door, made a lewd gesture (think fist and index finger, ca junior high school), and pointed to a fifty laying on the passenger seat. :puke<br><br>
The funny thing is he had an Intel parking permit clearly visible and was wearing an Intel lanyard. Nice job promoting your company's image, dude. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="rolleyes">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,328 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>harpyr</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9054400"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">yeah... once, when I was 8 mo. pregnant, I was sitting at a bus stop on the corner of 82nd and Stark and some guys at the stoplight made lewd comments and asked me how much I charge for an hour. It was sick.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
I am not saying it was right, not at all. But it doesn't surprise me either. If you pay close attention, esp during evening hours, there's many women out on 82nd selling themselves. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"><br><br>
That said, even in Forest Grove near the college, DH and I were walking along and someone asked what I charged per hour. DH thinks because I was wearing shorts (not super short, but not board shorts either). I've witnessed the lewd comments outside of the Portland Metro area as well, many times over.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,878 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
So ok for you it was because of your shorts. For harpyr it was because she was on a "bad" street. For me it was because in one instance I was pregnant and in the other instance I was "barely legal" and standing around doing nothing near a bus stop--clearly most women standing near busy streets are prostitutes, right? And for another woman it was her skirt and for another her hair and another it was the way she walked...<br><br>
Can you see that really, it's NONE of those things?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,627 Posts
I blame the patriarchy. No, seriously....men don't harrass women on the streets because of porn, although no doubt porn perpetuates that kind of behavior. men harrass women on the streets because...well, it's a big thing but it's not because they saw porn, it's more abbout asserting their dominance.<br><br>
I'm not a huge porn fan, to be clear; i think that there *ought* to be visual erotica that degrads no one, and that would be fine; but I also know that a lot of what's out there is just horrible.<br><br>
I just wanted to chime in because I didn't think it was right to blame street harrasment on porn. Gotta look at the bigger picture...patriarchy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,881 Posts
tacky men on the street mean nothing. seriously. i'd be willing to wager that if you call them out, they'd back down, especially with the ubiquity of cell phones that take pics these days. just the other day, some dumba$$ who flashed himself on the train had his pic all over the local news <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
and you know, it doesn't matter what you wear or how you look, the guys who are predisposed to do that will do it. i don't think it has anything to do with porn at all.<br><br>
btw, i'm reading Yukio Mishima's "Forbidden Colors" and it's an interesting window into misogyny. i think misogyny has nothing to do with porn, and everything to do with a predisposition based on messed up life experiences. just theorizing, though <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,878 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mshollyk</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9059465"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">tacky men on the street mean nothing.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Actually they mean quite a lot in terms of diminished quality of life for many women and a significant minority of men.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">seriously. i'd be willing to wager that if you call them out, they'd back down, especially with the ubiquity of cell phones that take pics these days. just the other day, some dumba$$ who flashed himself on the train had his pic all over the local news <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"></td>
</tr></table></div>
Or they might turn around and kill you! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/gloomy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Gloomy">:<br><br><a href="http://www.365gay.com/newscon05/03/030405gunn.htm" target="_blank">http://www.365gay.com/newscon05/03/030405gunn.htm</a><br><br>
I'm all for not taking crap from street hecklers, but let's not pretend like they really are "nothing" and that women really are safe. Laughing at the problem won't make it go away.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,881 Posts
i have friends who have been bashed, it's a very real issue for me, i'm not laughing at that. i'm laughing that some perv got his pic all over the news. good on whomever took it and sent it to the news. for all my discomfort with the culture of surveillance, there is some good that comes out of it.<br><br>
and yes, i know, i've been a victim of catcalls. even with big 50s glasses and sack dresses. that's why i think porn isn't <i>necessarily</i> related to it. it's about power and domination, not porn.
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top