[AnyMama]

Long story:

My husband had an episode this past winter that is best described as a brief, reactive psychosis. He is 31 and has no history of anything remotely like this. In his follow-up treatment, 2 doctors have labeled him as bipolar (each one favoring a different kind). His parents and I don't buy it, though he has been treated for depression for many years. Let me go through the whole list of reasons why.

1) he has no history of manic behavior at all
2) the behavior he exhibited wasn't manic. The only "mania" like symptom was lack of sleep. He was waking up around 3 AM, in sheer terror, unable to go back to sleep he was so scared by his delusions. At the very end (2 days before he went into the hospital), he was so worked up at night he had a hard time going to sleep, but the whole time he was so tired he wanted to sleep.
3) there was no euphoria, excessive spending, hypersexuality etc, and never has been in the past
4) he was stabilized initially using Ativan only
5) He would get better when he would sleep, going down hill over the course of the day
6) the many drugs he has been on since to treat bipolar have not helped him, but brought about other problems
7) In the ER, the Psych hospital and my friend who is getting his PhD in Psychology all said he was too old to be manifesting bipolar in this way for the first time.
8) his illnes is clearly based in anxiety, and work-related stress. Proof of which is the fact that after being stabilized, he returned to work for 1 day and was psychotic again, even on the meds.

My husband is now in a state of what I think is drug-induced depression, and getting out of it has been the biggest challenge since he stabilized. I think the culprit is the very drug the doctor is using for mood stabilization, but I know from our many visits that he is 1) not open to any other conclusion than that my husband is bipolar, and 2) convinced that going off this drug will cause another episode.

Here's the problem: getting my husband good care has been so hard. His current doctor is available by phone, takes our calls, works with us. He's just not open to the one thing I need him to listen to and consider. I've been self-paying for all of this care (well, not the hosptial), including the psychiatrist who wouldn't return my calls when his meds returned my husband to psychosis

Where can I find more information? I also read in another thread about budeprion issues, and that is the drug my husband was on when he had his episode, and I'm wondering if that, tied in with his stress could be at the heart of it. Where can I find some answers? Where can I get information? Can anyone help me. I think it would be so terrible to let this go on forever. His parents and I know him better than anyone, and his father as a degree in counseling, we are well informed on this topic. But his doctor is too arrogant to listen to me on this.

 

[MoonWillow]

First of all I want to offer a major

. Sorry you haven't gotten more responses. I wish I could tell you that I know what's going on. I truly empathize with your frustration with the medical community and striking out on your own to try and get this sorted out. I am doing something similar for myself and it's not easy to say the least!

: I have had more success when taking things into my own hands then I have with doctors but it sure would feel good to have some knowledgeable guidance!
I bet that you are on the right track in figuring this out. Keep fighting for what you know in your heart to be true and hopefully a path will become illuminated for you.

 

[AnyMama]

thanks for your kind reply. I know other women on here have researched and found other ways to deal with their illness, I'm just hoping someone can point me in the right direction.

I'm afraid to take him off the anti-psychotic medication, in case he would become psychotic again. And yet, I think it's depressing him. Also, his doctor requires medication compliance to be in his practice, so if he does go off of it, and ends up having another episode, he'd be kicked out of this practice.

It's so hard. I'm tempted just to have him stop the one drug.

He's such a sweet man, he doesn't deserve this. And yet, I don't feel like I can go through another episode like the one we had. Maybe some of you understand, but until you've seen someone you love freaking out, completely out of touch with reality, it's hard to comprehend how painful it is when you can do nothing to make it better.

 

[MoonWillow]

My uncle is paranoid schizophrenic and it's been awful to see how it has taken his life away from him. He was brilliant with a bright future and a good education. But now that's all gone.
But no I haven't experienced this with my own husband.

For my own issues though (clinical depression/bipolar), I am researching the amino acid therapy. Have you read about any of that kind of thing? Just a thought...

 

[AnyMama]

no, tell me about the amino acid therapy, or where to read up on it.

We did take DH (and all of us) for some NAET therapy.

 

[MoonWillow]

I'm not familiar with NAET, or the abbreviation anyway

The amino acid thing is based on the idea that since no one gets 100% of what they need from their diet for a variety of reasons, that the particular building blocks (aminos) that an individual needs to make the neurotransmitters necessary for well being; mental and physical health is not present, which can cause problems.

I just read The Mood Cure by Julia Ross. And there's a thread going in the PPD forum that started about Inositol as a treatment for depression and kind of turned into a thread about aminos and specifically that book. It's titled something like "A True Natural Remedy" and its MANY pages long. We're not supposed to link to other threads here otherwise I'd find it for you...
There's other stuff out there about amino acid therapy though, certainly other books that I haven't read yet that might be worth looking into.
There's a lot of info in the Mood Cure about depression/anxiety and that sort of thing but I did also see info about certain nutrients that schizophrenics lack. Maybe I'm reaching here but if people with disorders on that end of the spectrum are finding help then maybe your husband could be helped too.
Sorry if that's a stretch but maybe it could be a starting point for a new direction.
Also, this may sound "out there" too but is it possible he has food allergies?

 

[LauraLoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnyMama But his doctor is too arrogant to listen to me on this.

You are at a big disadvantage when this is the case. You really need a second opinion - and hopefully with a doctor who is more open to what you have to say. I have no idea if this doctor is right or wrong - but if you feel like you are being slighted, then no matter what, you won't feel like it's right.

 

[AnyMama]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LauraLoo You are at a big disadvantage when this is the case. You really need a second opinion - and hopefully with a doctor who is more open to what you have to say. I have no idea if this doctor is right or wrong - but if you feel like you are being slighted, then no matter what, you won't feel like it's right.

I know, I know. But the thing is we're paying out of pocket. We went to 1 doc (at $175 for the visit) and his course of treatment nearly killed my husband AND I couldn't reach him after hours when it was clear something was wrong. This doctor is at least available. to get a 3rd opinion would be to spend another $175 to $250 for an initial visit, and finding a good psychiatrist around here is beyond challenging, and we're not made of money. We've gone with the 2 recommendations we've gotten, we don't know many people to ask on this subject.

NAET is an approach to allergies. It tests "resistences" in the body and treats them. My husband was resistant to seritonin, we had him treated for that, and within days he had snapped back into more of himself. Unfortuantely that is also expensive, and the practice we like is half way across the country.

I am also interested in a dietary connection. i was talking about that the other day. I am on a low-carb diet myself, but eating lots of whole foods and vegetables and am thinking of moving my family to this way of eating as well since it has given me so much energy.

I'm going to try reading that book.

 

[numinous]

This is just my opinion, but having a psychotic experience is pretty darn serious. Even a lot of bipolar people (myself included) have not had one.

What I would do is research the drugs he is on, and go online and read. One good place that I have found is http://www.psycheducation.org/

The other thing that is crucial is finding a doctor that will listen to you. I don't know where you live, but if you have the option of being in or near a major metropolitan area, I would suggest a support group. I don't know what kind, whether it be bipolar or what. However, you might be able to find a good psychiatrist going this route and speaking to people for free. Discussion groups online can be tedious but informative as well.

Keep reading. And the best of luck, this sounds really scary and heart-wrenching for you.

 

[AnyMama]

Quote:

Originally Posted by numinous This is just my opinion, but having a psychotic experience is pretty darn serious. Even a lot of bipolar people (myself included) have not had one.

That was the really off thing about the first doctor diagnosing him as bipolar II -- which clearly states that mania doesn't lead to psychosis. It made no sense whatsoever!!!

I hadn't thought about support groups, we do have a loca NAMI group.

 

[MoonWillow]

Please keep us posted on how you are doing. I was thinking about you a lot last night. I'm just so sorry you guys are going through this.
Hey what state do you live in? I'm brainstorming again but depending on where you live, if he has a mental health diagnosis then maybe he would qualify for some help of some kind...benefits even...which would be federal (disability) but maybe theres something at the state level. Just thinking of ways to maybe help supplement your cost, or even get some help for free...just a thought.

 

[AnyMama]

oh thank you I'll keep you posted, every day is a new challenge right now. We're in Florida right now but looking into moving. Social services here are pretty bad, and mental health issues are wretched. You can actually find out online if someone has been forcibly committed (fortunately we are not in that boat). And I seriously doubt we'd qualify for help. We have health insurance, it's just that it stinks and most doctors won't take it, so we've ended up self-paying in order to get care this century.

I'll continue to check in. I think I'm going to be a regular in this forum. I've learned so much in the last few months about psychiatric care and meds...not that I wanted to!

 

[MoonWillow]

Oh! It's interesting that you're in FL. I was going to mention in my last post that my grandmother (who lives in FL) has been a mental health advocate for years there. She's had to fight tooth and nail for my uncle's services and knows the system inside and out. She actually was asked to appear on Dateline (or 20//20...one of those shows) for things that she's accomplished, but my uncle was uncomfortable about it due to his problems so she declined. I know about the Baker Act down there...didn't know you could look it up online! Wow. That seems like a major HIPPA violation!
Anyway not sure if she could be of any assistance to you but if there's anything you'd like me to ask her I'd be happy to give her a call...just brainstorming again

Any chance you're in Tampa/St. Pete?

 

[Jillson66]

I think you've gotten some decent advice. I especially second the recommendation to contact NAMI. How helpful they are depends a lot on the local chapter, but I was really surprised to find in my little podunk town they have been a HUGE help (my husband is bipolar).

A couple of things: especially in men, mania does not always manifest in the typical hypersexuality/spending/euphoria way. A particular combination of "agitated depression symptoms" can look a whole lot like a psychotic episode, and vice versa.

Also, 30 is in no way "too old" to see the onset of bipolar disorder. Early onset is defined as before age 18, and late onset is after 40, so regular/average onset is between 18 and 39.

And finally, two things about Ativan, learned through bitter experience -- it will knock down almost any anxiety/stress/mania/anything else at first, because it is some potent stuff. Secondly, the fact that that it used to work but doesn't anymore isn't a sign of anything except that your husband has become accustomed to his dose (even if it's increased over time) because that happens FAST on Ativan. My husband has been on many meds and combinations of meds (and, thank God, we've found something that's working really well) and Ativan is the ONLY one we both agree he will never never never take again -- we thought it was great at first, but it kept taking more and more and more to work and at some point it's absolutely debilitating, like he was drunk all the time. And his doctor at the time just kept raising his dose and raising his dose because he (the psychiatrist) didn't know what else to do. We're well rid of that doctor and of Ativan.

None of this is to try to convince you that your husband is bipolar -- of course I have no way of knowing that. Just wanted to put some information out there that might help.

I feel for you. It's hard and frustrating.

 

[Seie]

My DP has just been diagnosed with stress.
When stress goes on for too long then the body produces way too high lvls of cortisol and adrenaline - and lots of other hormones that I dont know that much about. But it can manifest as mental problems.

My DP had a stressrelated psychosis quite a lot of years back- he was treated for stress (meaning mainly by reducing stress in his surroundings)
The stress he is suffering now has symptoms such as:

Aggressive and angry behaviour (shouting very loud, getting angry over very very small things)

Hyperactive behaviour such as speedtalking, making appointments all the time and never being able to sit down and relax

A changed personality - from being calm and friendly to being constantly hyper or aggressive

Those are the symptoms I experience, but stress can cause a lot of other psychological symptoms.
Some are listed here:
Mayoclinic

It doesnt specifically mention delusions but I know my DP had delusions earlier caused by stress, so it doest happen.

I also know that other serious symptoms of stress can be panic attacks, phobias and fear.

I think you and your DP should find a psychologist or psychiater who specialises in stress and get a "second opinion".

If he does indeed have stress then it is easier to treat than if he is bipolar. The main way to treat stress is healthy living and to remove the things that cause stress from ones life. It sounds simple but it doesnt happen overnight. It can be a looong recovery, and some people need meds to control the levels of stresshormones.

I hope you find a way to treat your DH in the best possible way. I know what you are going through and am so sorry you have to deal with this

:

 

[AnyMama]

Inca, Thank you so much, what you described sounds incredibly like my husband when he went into the hospital.

Jillson- acutally Ativan is working very well for him, he's on a relatively low dosage right now and it works great. He has some flexibility to adjust how much he takes depending on how he feels.

motherwren-I'll PM you

 

[Seie]

AnyMama: I thought my DP was bipolar because of his hyper and unrelaxed behaviour and because I thought his aggessive behaviour was a symptom of depression. Also when I described his change of personality and his angerfits to other people they would often say stuff like "my dad is bipolar and that sounds just like him". But now that he is diagnosed "officially" I have looked a bit more into "chronic stress" as it is called. (unlike stress understood as a short term effect then cronic stress refers to a condition where a person has been under constant stress for a long time, resulting in their body constantly overproducing stresshormones even when they are no longer needed - I hope that made sense)
Anyway chronic stress differs from being bipolar in that it is a direct consequense of stress and that if you remove that stress then the person will get better. But stress can trigger a depression or other mental problems if it is untreated.

Dont know exactly what I am getting at only that if your DH suffers from stress, then it is very important that that is what he is treated for kwim? I hope things start to improve for both of you asap

:

 

[MoonWillow]

There's a chapter in The Mood Cure about the long term effects of stress and how to repair that.
Just an FYI...

 

[AnyMama]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MotherWren There's a chapter in The Mood Cure about the long term effects of stress and how to repair that. Just an FYI...

Thank you for reminding me, I meant to see if I could get that from the library!

Inca: I am so with you on the stress. My husband came home from work at least once a week saying he was sure he was going to be fired. As the sole provider for our family, I can only imagine how stressful that must have been. This went on for 6 months, sometimes he said it daily, but the words came out of his mouth at least once a week. He is great as long as he stays the heck away from work (except for the severe depression that continues to grow in spite of increases in his anti-depressant meds). But if he so much as e-mails his boss, something changes (come to think of it, this most recent increase in depression came after calling his boss).

He was essentially stabilized in the hospital, but the moment he went back to work, it was as bad as when he went in, in spite of all the meds he was on. Seriously, one day back and I had to call him out sick for the rest of the week. I think I'm going to look for a doctor who specializes in stress disorders. I'm hoping the checked his cortisol level at the hospital...only I don't know because apparently in this state we don't have a legal right to his medical records if he was hospitalized for mental illness!

 

[dealic]

Ok, as a disclaimer, I have no actual training and don't know enough about husband to say, but what about Schizoaffective disorder? It can explain a psycotic episode during a depressive episode, and while it can be linked to bipolar disorer, it is also found in connection with unipolar depression.

Hopefully that is helpful information.