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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
<p>Hello everyone. I am 6 weeks pregnant with my second child (I have a one year old daughter). I had a hospital birth with a horrible OB who abused me- he purposefully broke my water and tried to put an internal fetal monitor, even though we just had a conversation about how I didnt want that, he said he was "checking me" but he was actually doing this without my knowledge, untill I saw the long thing he was sticking inside of me and I yelled at him to stop and tried to kick him off of me, but he didnt even stop then..thankfully he didnt get the internal monitor in but he did break my water against my will. Thankfully, I birthed by daughter very well despite being drugged against my will (the nurse lied and said it wasnt an opiate, but I was so high I was falling asleep)</p>
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<p>I am a recovering heroin addict. I have not used in 5 years. I have been taking suboxone for over two years and it works very well for me. I took subutex (which is subxone without the naltraxone, its just a mild opiate) when I was pregnant with my daughter and she had no withdrawal at all and she is totally healthy, and my pregnancy was very smooth (as was my labor/delivery). I am taking subutex now again with this pregnancy.</p>
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<p>I have to see an OB or my doctor will not give me my subutex and I would go into withdrawal, which could cause miscarriage and relapse for me. But I really want a homebirth, or a UC. I dont want to be in a hospital. The subutex has NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on my labor/delivery. NONE. There is no reason for me to be unable to give birth outside of a hospital. But the issue is that no midwife will take me, more than likely, and IF this baby gets symtoms of withdrawal..which would occus around 12-24 hours after birth then she or he may need to see a doctor, although it is highly unlikely that the baby would need any drugs to cope with the withdrawal, if they have them. Its not like methadone, methadone is much stronger and causes much more serious withdrawal. My daughter had NO withdrawal, and the majority of babies who do have withdrawal just need some extra TLC for a few days and breastfeeding is very helpful as well.</p>
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<p>Do you think that I can have a UC even if I need to bring my baby in to be seen by a doctor the next day or so?</p>
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<p>My concern would be the post birth mess that could occur if you have to take in the baby for any reason and have to admit to having had a UC. They're automatically going to assume the worst because of your history.</p>
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<p>Could there be a compromise out there if you can't find a midwife to work with you? A birth centre? Midwife care in a hospital setting?</p>
 

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<p>Maybe do prenatals with OB and plan to be "too late" to make it to birth at hospital?  Don't ever mention it at prenatals or to any friends!  Then call right away after birth saying baby came at home accidentally, then be ready to head to the hospital with your babe...  If you want to "keep up appearances" just in case someone might make life hard for you otherwise, you should probably aim for going in the same day.</p>
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<p>Now this could be tricky if you do prenatals and then go past your due date and doc pushes for induction (such as breaking water!) though I do know someone here in my town who was told to come for induction and simply didn't show and had her babe alone about a week later.  Everything went fine for her.</p>
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
<p>I am going to speak with a midwife and see if she will see me but its doubtful, everyone is afraid of getting sued (I went through this last time, which is why i ended up with my terrible OB). My OB wanted to induce me but he had no reason so I refused and ended up going into labor three days before my due date! Its true that with my history, even though I'm a great mom and CLEAN..they always look at me like I'm a horrible person and I wouldnt put it past them calling social services. My OB called a psychiatrist and a social worker to visit me in the hospital, as payback because he was angry with me. They just spoke to me, asked some questions, and never bothered me at all. BUT I know that somtimes things dont go that smoothly. Although I have therapists and a volunteer home-visiting person from a local agency (a great agency for moms and babies with low income) who love me and would vouche for me in a second. But yes...maybe an "opps" I had the baby is a good way to go. I just feel bad bringing my baby to a scary hospital and have them test him or her...which is why I thought maybe just a doctors visit would be okay?</p>
 

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<p>If you do an "oops" and know all the signs to look for in a babe in distress and babe is fine, personally I would call the doc and tell him babe was in a hurry and was had at home, but not call right away. (there's no reason for the doc to suspect anything if he doesn't know you've gone into labor) Maybe the next day or the day after I'd call! If he/she insists on you coming in you just tell them you will if you're feeling poorly and that the babe has an appt w/your ped...whether the babe really does or not is up to you... It can be done. You just need to educate yourself up one side and down the other and don't let the docs/nurses badger you into doing things you don't want which it sounds like you already have experience with...this is just taking it to the next level!</p>
<p>Good Luck!</p>
 

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<p>How is your current ped/dr for your daughter? If you have a good relationship with him/her and could bring your LO in 12-24 hours after the birth, when you are saying withdrawl symptoms are most likely to manifest, and then go from there if needed? Or do you think ped would freak and want baby interned anyway?</p>
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<p>I agree with PP that you should try to cover yourself as well as possible.</p>
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<p>Even if you decided to not UC and can't find any other options, I hope you can find a better OB and maybe show up at the hospital as late as possible... </p>
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>prescottchels</strong> <a href="/community/t/1348712/pregnant-on-subutex-but-want-a-homebirth#post_16924708"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><p>If you do an "oops" and know all the signs to look for in a babe in distress and babe is fine, personally I would call the doc and tell him babe was in a hurry and was had at home, but not call right away. (there's no reason for the doc to suspect anything if he doesn't know you've gone into labor) Maybe the next day or the day after I'd call! If he/she insists on you coming in you just tell them you will if you're feeling poorly and that the babe has an appt w/your ped...whether the babe really does or not is up to you... It can be done. You just need to educate yourself up one side and down the other and don't let the docs/nurses badger you into doing things you don't want which it sounds like you already have experience with...this is just taking it to the next level!</p>
<p>Good Luck!</p>
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<br><br><p>Yeah its hard to know when I should bring the baby because I know that I will be able to tell if the baby is having problems. When I gave birth in the hospital, my daughter was seen the next afternoon by a pedi (I gave birth at 11:30pm the night before) and she just asked me if I noticed any withdrawal symptoms (shaking, crying uncontrolably, refusal to eat, etc) and I said no she is fine, and she just looked her over and discharged me. I even panicked a bit the next day and brought her back because I was having a hard time getting her to nurse (I just didnt know what I was doing) and they said she was totally fine and sent me home.</p>
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<p>I dont really have a relationship with my daughters pedi, I see a few of them at different times at the same practice. They are not bad, but I dont love them. They never gave me a problem with my having been on subutex during pregnancy which is good. </p>
 

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<p>Hey, I recognize you from somewhere... <img alt="winky.gif" id="user_yui_3_4_1_2_1333686804501_164" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/winky.gif">   I was wondering if you were considering UC.  </p>
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<p>Honestly, if you are comfortable with having a UC, and so is your husband, go for it.  Research, research, research.  Soul search.  Talk to your baby.  Learn what circumstances require hospital transfer and prepare for others that can be handled at home.</p>
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<p>You can choose to go to the hospital after baby is born, or you can choose to wait...or not go at all and just take baby to a pediatrician.  Personally I would just stick with "baby came too fast" if you are questioned.  Either way, UC is NOT illegal and they cannot take your children away for it, though they can try to find other reasons.  Had I not taken the twins in ASAP there would have been a case against me that they weren't receiving proper medical care.</p>
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<p>So while dealing with hospital staff and CPS might be a hassle, they shouldn't have grounds to take your babies away, particularly if you don't admit to anything.</p>
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<p>Anyway, let me know if you ever want to chat.  I'd be happy to give you my phone number or add you on Facebook or something. :)</p>
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
<p>Hey Almi <img alt="winky.gif" id="user_yui_3_4_1_2_1333727574461_164" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/winky.gif"> Yes, I didnt want to admit that I am considering this on the other forum because I dont want anyone to know, even people online because I get scared of their reactions. But my husband is very comfortable with it. We were actually just talking about this yesterday, the "opps the baby came so fast I had no time" option. We are going to do a lot of research and check out all our options. But honestly, after what I went through with my daughter I never want another birth where I have to fight people the entire time (get drugged without permisson, etc). Yeah, it would be cool to talk about this together! You can look me up on FB, I'll PM you my name.</p>
 

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<p> </p>
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>JoyfulMama2be</strong> <a href="/community/t/1348712/pregnant-on-subutex-but-want-a-homebirth#post_16922754"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><p> But the issue is that no midwife will take me, more than likely, and IF this baby gets symtoms of withdrawal..which would occus around 12-24 hours after birth then she or he may need to see a doctor, although it is highly unlikely that the baby would need any drugs to cope with the withdrawal, if they have them. Its not like methadone, methadone is much stronger and causes much more serious withdrawal.</p>
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<p>I trust that you have looked into this really carefully... However, I live in a country where Subutex (not methadone) is the treatment of choice for pregnant ladies who have been taking drugs. Unfortunately, I cannot agree on the idea that most babies of moms who used Subutex will not have bad symptoms of withdrawal. It really seems to depend on the mom, her dose, the baby, who knows what else... Some will have no symptoms even though mom used lots and regularly. Some will need morphine even if it was not really expected. I have seen even babies of the same mom fare very differently.</p>
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
<p>Yes, your both right, it varies a lot and even with the same Mother. I am not saying that my baby def will not have withdrawal, I am just not convinced that means I have to give brith in a hospital. Of course, my husband and I have our baby's best interest in mind as #1 and we not casually decided what to do. But I am leaning more towards homebirth and then going to the hospital at this pint, we shall see. I am looking for a new OB as well so hopefully we find a good one!</p>
 

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<p>Please remember that the baby may start to have symptoms even weeks later, even if there were none in the beginning.</p>
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<p>However, I realize that that is not your question here. I feel for you, as I would like to have a home birth but cannot, dues to finances. In your situation, though, I would try to find a third option (midwives in a hospital, birthing center, maybe). I would fear that the chances of a doctor calling social services would be way too high if you showed up after a UC, or did not take your baby to be checked at all. There are preferences, even very understandable ones, but no matter how unfair it may seem, the reality seems to suggest that you had better play it safe. I must say that I doubt that any doctor would want to leave it up to the parents to determine whether the baby had symptoms of withdrawal. </p>
 
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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>LessTraveledBy</strong> <a href="/community/t/1348712/pregnant-on-subutex-but-want-a-homebirth#post_16964649"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><p>Please remember that the baby may start to have symptoms even weeks later, even if there were none in the beginning.</p>
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<p>However, I realize that that is not your question here. I feel for you, as I would like to have a home birth but cannot, dues to finances. In your situation, though, I would try to find a third option (midwives in a hospital, birthing center, maybe). I would fear that the chances of a doctor calling social services would be way too high if you showed up after a UC, or did not take your baby to be checked at all. There are preferences, even very understandable ones, but no matter how unfair it may seem, the reality seems to suggest that you had better play it safe. I must say that I doubt that any doctor would want to leave it up to the parents to determine whether the baby had symptoms of withdrawal. </p>
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<p>In which case the birth place would not matter, either way you'd be observing your baby at home.  They wouldn't keep the baby in the hospital for weeks on the off chance that symptoms would show up weeks later.</p>
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<p>I don't really see any problem with her having a UC as long as she feels it is right for her, and I'm pretty sure she'd seek medical care if need be.</p>
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<p>If you're worried about CPS and whatnot, you can always claim an "oops" UC.  =P</p>
 

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<p>Almi, all I can say is that I hope you are right. The problem is what happens if the doctor feels worried about the situation. It would not be the first time that someone got reported, good reason or not. Oops UCs do take place, but they also obviously happen when the person feels the need to hide. Unfortunately here, it would be up to the doctor to decide which he thought had taken place.</p>
 
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<p>It can be tricky if they can somehow say that the baby wasn't receiving adequate medical care, but the truth of the matter is, if the baby is brought into the hospital or seen by a pediatrician if she suspects something is wrong, that would be considered adequate medical care, and UC alone is not illegal.  They have to find some other grounds to take your kids away from you.  I've been there done that with CPS.  They had no grounds to take my children away.</p>
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
<p>I have care from midwives who are working with OB's for me "just in case" they need a doctor. So far my pregnancy is going well and baby is doing well too. I really wanted to UC and if it werent for the subutex then I would have. The thing is, like Almi said, the birth PLACE has no bearing whatsoever on my medication. My baby needs to be seen within about 12 of birth..but the birth can happen anywhere. Anyway, since I was able to find midwives that I like who are willing to see me, I will accept a hospital birth but honestly it makes me nervous because I hate hospitals and i know that there really is no reason at all for me to go there. The only reason why the midwives wont do a homebirth is because they could get into trouble legally..not because its unsafe.</p>
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<p>And symptoms will not show up weeks later. It shows up within 24 hours and is gone in a few days or a week maximum IF anything happens (praying that my baby wont get sick of course).</p>
 

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<p>Why would they get in trouble legally if it was not unsafe?  It seems like the legal trouble would stem from the potential safety issues.</p>
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<p>I'm glad you've found a team of care providers and things are looking well with the baby!  Good job!</p>
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>rnra</strong> <a href="/community/t/1348712/pregnant-on-subutex-but-want-a-homebirth#post_17091153"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><p>Why would they get in trouble legally if it was not unsafe?  It seems like the legal trouble would stem from the potential safety issues.</p>
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<p>I'm glad you've found a team of care providers and things are looking well with the baby!  Good job!</p>
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<p><br>
The laws in any particular State do not necessarily reflect evidence based practice. The laws are generally written to protect the care provider rather than what is best for the birthing mama and her baby.</p>
 

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<p>How long do you plan on taking Subutex? Congrats on 5 years of being clean but the idea of methadone or Subutex is to wean you off drugs completely. I am very happy your first baby didn't have any problems. Good luck with your UC and your second baby!! Where I am from Social Services is called for all drug use, including Methadone and Subutex. : (  </p>
 
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