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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Anyone know the stats for men IN THE US who are/aren't circed?
 

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The stats are different for men than for infants and children. The circumcision rate of men would be the same as the infant circumcision of 20 years ago or more or probably as an aggregate, around 75% - 80%. But, that's not important. What is important is the circumcision rate for the last couple of years and the next couple of years. The 2003 rate for all US babies was around 52% and the 2005 rate will be less that 50% if the trend follows the 2001 - 2003 trend and in another 2 years will be around 45% or less. These are the boys that will be your son's peers.

But, there's another consideration for you. In all of the west coast states, the circumcision rate is substantially lower than the rest of the country. In that region, the circumcision rate is around 30% so if you were to circumcise your son, he will definitely be the odd man out. Just another reason among many not to circumcise!

Frank
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankly Speaking
What is important is the circumcision rate for the last couple of years and the next couple of years. The 2003 rate for all US babies was around 52% and the 2005 rate will be less that 50% if the trend follows the 2001 - 2003 trend and in another 2 years will be around 45% or less. These are the boys that will be your son's peers.Frank
Yeah & this is actually something that Frank emailed me a while back that really opened MY DH's eyes...definatly mention this aspect!!
 

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Those are the macro stats....I think it's also important to look at the micro stats.

Every circumcision done has as an effect the loss of the foreskin and roughly half the nerve endings of the penis. That's a 100% effect. Every circed baby will lose the protection of the foreskin for the glans, the natural gliding action of the foreskin during sex, and on and on - see the Lost List in the first link in my siggie. That's a 100% "complication" rate.

75% of infant circs in this country are done without anesthesia. Even the 25% that do get anesthesia do not all get adequate anesthesia - many doctors count a sugar-water pacifer as "anesthesia." Unless you are standing over your baby while the anesthesia is administered, you cannot guarantee that your baby will be one of the few lucky enough to get adequate pain relief.

Every circumcised baby is going to have an open wound on his penis while it heals. Meanwhile, he's peeing and pooping in his diaper.

Many circumcised babies will suffer complications or side effects. Anything from meatal stenosis (a narrowing of the urethra, sometimes to the extent that further surgery is needed to open the urethra to enable the boy to pee) - affecting as many as 10% of all circed boys - to infection, to hemmorhage, to trapped/webbed penis, to amputation, to death.

Then there's the fact that, as someone here posted recently and it really opened my eyes, circ is about the only surgery in this country where the docs don't do routine bloodwork first. So if the baby has a genetic condition or a metabolic disorder such that a routine circ all of a sudden becomes a life-threatening issue - well, surprise, surprise.

Many of the more serious complications are, thankfully, rare in this country. But they do happen, and nobody knows the exact rate, which is probably higher than reported.

And here's the catch - no one knows who they're going to happen to! If your baby draws the losing lottery number, the complication rate FOR HIM is 100%.

For me it's like putting my baby in a carseat, which she generally hates. The odds of us being in a crash where the carseat is needed may be very, very, very low but I'm not going to take the chance that our number will come up and I'll be the unlucky parent who loses her baby to an auto accident that she could have survived if she'd been properly restrained. Even if the odds are 1 in say 100,000, if that 1 is me then that's a 100% loss for me.

Same with circ - I'm not going to take even the slightest chance of my baby being permanently harmed (above and beyond the loss of the foreskin) or killed because of cosmetic surgery.

I don't know if this will be at all helpful to you, but I thought I'd throw it out there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
This is all VERY helpful, thank you SO much! We talked a bit about it last night. I'll post about how it went in a bit.
 

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I'm hoping that it went well....or was at least a step in the right direction.

Two thoughts:
1.) Make it your DH's job to prove it's necessary, not your job to prove it is not. Intact should be default. (Guaranteed, he can't do it.)
2.) If all fails, just say no. You don't have to agree, you don't have to convince him. You can just decline.

I'm getting way ahead of it and hopefully you wouldn't need to resort to that, but I just want to throw it out there, as a thought.

Hugs!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Alright, here's the update (long sorry!):

I did bring the subject up to him last night. It started out as I predicted. I said "we need to have a talk sometime about circumcision" He said "what about it?" I said "whether or not to do it" He said "YES!!!!" So... I asked him why... he said because it will get infected. So I said what makes you think that? The foreskin doesn't even retract until between the ages of 3 and 13, I really think he'll be competent enough to clean himself by then. The conversation went on. At one point I asked him "do you clean your penis in the shower?" He looked at me sideways (he knew I was about to stump him). So I said, men clean their penises anyway, what's the difference? All he has to do is rinse under the skin. If he's super worried he can use some diluted soap and rinse it off really well. So he goes "I'm not going to talk to my son about how to clean his penis!" "I will then" I said "doesn't bother me"... so he moves on to the next thing... "It looks gross!" Now, us being very religious I KNEW I could get him here... "So, you're telling me that the way Heavenly Father created your son is gross?" And I asked him this, "If our son is born with a severely deformed arm that we find very 'gross,' should we have it removed?" I gave him all the info about it possibly stunting the growth of the penis, and that it would take away so much of the sensation and all that (the stuff I thought would interest him) and he says (I'm still laughing) "You want his wife to walk around with a big smile on her face all the time!" duh "YES I do... that's how marriage SHOULD be!" After all this I could really see his wheels turning. I told him that I need him to promise that he will not make such an important decision before educating himself about it first. I asked him to watch a video of it and read some information. He didn't sound like he wanted to, so I asked him (keep in mind he knew nothing about any kind of alternative thinking till he met me) "Would you rather go back to not knowing about vax so we can do damage to our children and not know? Would you rather not know about the effects of drugs during labor so I can not have to feel the pain? Would you rather not know that prescription drugs are so grossly overused, so we can take our kids to the doctor give them some pills and pretend they are healthy?" And in conclusion "you know that I believe it is every parents responsiblity to make INFORMED decisions about their children's wellbeing. I cannot do this to our child, I love him too much. If I didn't love our babies I wouldn't endure natural births, I wouldn't have gone through everything I did to nurse Juels." He said "I know, I know how much you love them." And so now he's thinking about it. This is good! I think I made some good points anyway.

Keep any information you have coming. I really appreciate all of your support, I don't feel like I'm alone on my side of this debate. I really do think that once he has the info and thinks it over it'll be okay. We went through this with vax too, and I was about to give in, until our Chiropractor asked if Juels was vaccinated and I said "no" expecting a lecture... instead he said "Good, good, good! That's what I like to hear, neither is my son." He gave Kolby some facts about vax and Kolby said "I'm sooo glad we didn't do it." He was also freaked out by extended breastfeeding at first too, I think maybe he still is just a little, because he's never been exposed to it. Neither had I when I decided to do it, and it was a little odd the first time I saw a toddler latched on. But you know, when you're raised with certain things being the norm, and then you're asked to challenge those things, it can take some time to adjust. I'm trying to be symathetic to that. He really is a wonderful man, with so much love for his children. I think with a little more info he'll see the light.

Oh yeah, and now he does think that I think there's something wrong with his penis LOL. Men are so funny. I told him what's done is done, that was your mother's decision, and tried to assure him he has a perfectly fine penis, but he was still offended.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks! Sure, I appreciate any links you have. We're LDS, so it's not so much an issue since the NT does away with circ, and our Church believes that our bodies are temples and we're not to alter or deface them in any way!
 

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Good job Mama! My dh was the same way, insisted we get it done then backed down when I presented the facts and told him HE had to change MY mind. You know, their penises are very *special* to them, and when we want to go against the grain regarding anything penile they get their defenses up until thinking it'll be bad. Can't really blame them if you think about it. Give him some time to absorb, I don't think you'll have much of a battle from here on out.
 

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It sounds like it went *great* for a first conversation! I too get the feeling he will not be too hard to convince when he does a little research. It sounds like he wasn't so much dead-set on it, just that he had never heard any reason not to. That's how I was before I learned the truth about it.

Good job!
 

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Most chiros are into the more natural aspects -- mine wrote down URLs for me about not vaxing when I had my daughter but I was 17, I had no clue what he was on about. I should go thank him though, he's part of the reason we're delaying/selectively (I think, we're leaning towards none) vaxing now.
 
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