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My ds had to have a court ordered week vacation with my x husband.
Phone contact has been minimal, since he spent the week in a remote area with no plumbing, no electricity, not cell phone towers.

ds's privacy boundaries have been extremely compromised. I did not expect ds to talk about his week with his dad right away, I expected whatever was troubling him would come out eventually. But he was clearly upset about something when he came home.

He was dropped off at 5:06 PM Friday the 11th. At first he just wanted to hug and snuggle and be held. Then he wanted to play, he was playing with puppets violently. He started 'nesting' again, making a nest of objects around himself for protection. He pretended that a T Rex was attacking him. One puppet fought it off, racing around and slamming repeatedly onto the floor very hard. That puppet was killed. The other puppets checked on the dead one and then 'they' raced around slamming hard into the floor, trying to kill the T Rex, but they only could chase it away, it kept coming back. Then ds himself kept trying to chase it away, racing and jumping and fighting it off, then returning to his nest, then doing it again.

Then ds suddenly wanted a particular toy to put in the nest with him, and broke down sobbing hysterically because he didn't know where the toy was. I held him to comfort him, and more of his angry feelings started to come out.

During the evening, he ranged rapidly from hyper-off the-wall excited to be home, to sad and clingy, to angry and violent, to crying and melting down.

After supper and while getting him ready for bed, he started to tell me how he managed privacy. Well, he didn't.

I sent him with a child tent to use for dressing. He didn't use it. The living space for several adults and children was an open bunk house. He dressed there. His father slept on the bottom bunk, he slept on the top bunk.

He did not use the out house. ds said he didn't like the out house and didn't want to use it. He says everyone else used it, but he and his father used trees. ds says he did not poop, he just held it in (for 5 days). His dad taught him to drop his pants down around his ankles ("because he doesn't have a fly on his pants") and use one hand to lean into the tree and one hand to aim his penis upwards so he wouldn't pee on his pants. He says his father handled his (ds's) penis to show him how to accomplish this. This went on for 5 days. Aside from the sexual intentions of his dad, this behavior is simply unacceptable and inappropriate. His father should have encouraged use of the out house so ds would get used to using it and have a place to poop. Two of ds's dirty undearwear had some poop stains.

I am female and had only sisters, so I don't know how 'normal' this is for guys. But in this situation, ds knows privacy, and he knows what he did is wrong because I have taught him to always take his privacy. He also knows that no other men or boys we know of pee outside like his dad does. ds knows that what he did was wrong and he is very upset about it.

The worst parts of this are the perverse intentions of his dad. His dad has a sex addiction which includes anal masturbation which is a re-enactment of one way that his own mother molested him at least around 5 years old. His dad can't even say the word 'anus'. He has been shut off from any kind of naked contact with ds because of the privacy and right touch I have taught ds. Part of his addiction is voyeurism; he takes sexual pleasure in viewing buttocks. I have feared what kind of subconscious reaction his dad would have if he had this kind of physical naked contact with ds, because of how much of his abusive and addictive behaviors were triggered at the birth of our son. He couldn't even change diapers, he was so uncomfortable with the sexual feelings he had when seeing and cleaning a baby's private places.

I know that for his dad, this breach of ds's privacy boundaries is a V for Victory, he has finally gotten possession of ds's privacy, of ds's private places.

I am totally freaked out that because ds allowed this kind of breach of his privacy, that he is a target for more obvious molesting. In fact, I am not sure that some kind of molesting did not occur.

ds has said his dad touched his privates more than once, not always in the context of peeing, but did not tell much more about this.

In a court case, I don't think I would have a case because my first terrible lawyer did not file it as an abuse case, and the attorney who tried to salvage my case said the judge would not even listen to the abuse case because of that. He never even used the evidence I had for abuse and sexual addiction. I could easily see that they would make it a case against me for teaching ds extreme privacy and making something "normal" seem wrong to him.

Can anyone offer anything wise?
 

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If I hadn't known the history, I wouldn't have thought much of the changing in front of other people or the peeing outside, because I have trouble keeping my boys in more than underware at home as it is and they would probably prefer to pee outside then in a outhouse too...I probably would too, to be honest. But with the history, I would be very upset too. I am very sorry that your son and you have to go through this.

Does your x go to sexual addiction meetings. If so, you could try and contact someone in the meetings and let them know what happened. That way at least there would be someone to talk to him about it, and at least hold him accountable that way.
Again, I am so sorry that this is happening. Is your son in counseling?
 

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I am so sorry you have to go through this and your poor son too. How old is he?
Is your son in counseling at all? Maybe continuing to talk about it to someone else would be good.

as far as the case you have: it sounds like you have a decent case to keep contact only supervised but then i know nothing about this stuff and perhaps an actual offense has to be proven first. In thiat case i say try to find another lawyer and fight for your son's innocence!

Again:


just a question: Has your son been taught to say "no! " when touch is inappropriate? - just curious.
 

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I'm so sorry this happened to your son. Just parsing a bit of what you said - "ds knows that what he did was wrong and he is very upset about it." I'm not sure I'm clear: what his dad did was wrong, or what he did? There's nothing wrong with peeing outdoors in a normal situation (obviously, not what you describe with your ex's history.) But your SON did nothing wrong, or even out of the ordinary, by peeing outside while on a camping trip. Many kids have anxiety about pooping in unusual places, like an outhouse. Obviously your ex should have handled this differently, but your son's reaction wasn't abnormal or wrong.

I just wanted to encourage you to help him separate his own actions from his dad's. I *totally* get that you're not shaming him or anything like that, but I wanted to offer the feedback that your son has no reason to feel like *he* did anything wrong here.

You sound like a great mom and I'm sure it's terribly hard to feel like your son is exposed to your ex and his terrible situation without you there to protect him. Hugs.
 

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It sounds like a complicated situation. In a "normal" family nothing you've described bothers me at all. It is not unusual among campers to know how to latrine outside. It's not unusual for boys to dress in front of their fathers (or groups of other men/boys IMO) What is unusual is his father's past.

I think you're right that your excessive privacy rules (though possibly logical and needed in this situation) could be used against you. If you hadn't explained your concerns I would have thought them seriously over the top.

Good luck and peace to you and your son.

-Angela
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yes my son is in counseling, no my X is not in recovery, yes, my son knows that he is supposed to maintain privacy, and yes I have told him it is not his fault that his dad didn't teach him to use the out house. ds is 5. They peed outside for a WEEK. ds pooped in his pants and peed in his pants once, too.
 

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I'm sorry that your son had such an ordeal. I know that's a rotten place to be. ((((Hugs))))

There has to be a lawyer out there that can present the "possible abuse" or "abuse minded" case somewhere to a judge. I mean, somehow in there, it can't be dismissed and is neglect on the part of the judges or lawyers for not making note of it and at least acknowledging the possibility.
If it would have been me, from the beginning I would have sought full custody of my child...especially because of such possibilities.

From a personal standpoint, I was abused. There's no way I'd let my children alone with the person that did these things to me. It'd be a cold day in hell first.

Just my thoughts...
April
intuitive medium
 

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Hugs to you.

Can you call a child abuse line or find a local child advocacy office that might be able to direct you to the right lawyer? I dont' understand how someone can order a vacation with your x's background and your ds' age. I wonder if you can have a plain clothes officer come by to get a recording of ds recounting the trip so that you have (in ds' own words) the whole thing documented.
 

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I'm sorry that your son was forced to be in such a situation. The courts suck. I mean why couldn't they just have gone on a normal vacation? I refuse to use latrines too, although if it's all I have I will use them.

It sounds like ex-dh encouraged your son to not use them to me. Which is worrisome. I mean, latrines aren't that big of a deal, better than not pooping for 5 days! If your son will have to spend time with his dad again, then I would consult a lawyer. I think I'd take your son to the doctor as well for a physical, just to have documentation.
 
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