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What (if any?) problems are people talking about when they say "not circumcising" causes problems later? Is there any actual data anywhere?
"problems" with intact penises?
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This is an interesting article that compares problems in early childhood between circed and intact infants:
http://www.cirp.org/library/complications/vanhowe/
Take care,
Tara
http://www.cirp.org/library/complications/vanhowe/
Take care,
Tara
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Infections, usually caused by over-cautious parents telling their son to wash with soap (and maybe scrub, ouch) all the time, which gets rid of the good bacteria leaving him more open to infection AND/OR parents told to forcibly retract the foreskin to clean it which causes tears, soreness, etc... that along with the overuse of soap increases chances of infection.
Phimosis, a doctor diagnosing phimosis too early, who usually also says circumcision is the only answer. A doctor diagnosing phimosis because of redness/soreness/damage done to the foreskin by forced retraction. An adolescent during puberty worried about not being able to pull back the skin, although it is a normal part of puberty.
My guess is infections is the most common one and that forced retraction/overuse of soap is the most common cause of these problems.
Originally Posted by MichelleAnnette  What (if any?) problems are people talking about when they say "not circumcising" causes problems later? Is there any actual data anywhere? |
Phimosis, a doctor diagnosing phimosis too early, who usually also says circumcision is the only answer. A doctor diagnosing phimosis because of redness/soreness/damage done to the foreskin by forced retraction. An adolescent during puberty worried about not being able to pull back the skin, although it is a normal part of puberty.
My guess is infections is the most common one and that forced retraction/overuse of soap is the most common cause of these problems.
And "infection" is usually yeast, which would be treated with Monistat in girls
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: Or the docs treat a yeast infection with antibiotics, which of course makes the yeast worse.
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Oh, and smegma is labled as "infection" a lot of the time. Normal seperation can cause a little discomfort and redness and smegma discharge. Soo, trip to the doctor, forced retraction on the table, orders to retract and clean with soap = trouble caused by the doc, not the foreskin.
Phismosis- the forsekin isn't supposed to retract in babyhood! *sigh*
Oh, and smegma is labled as "infection" a lot of the time. Normal seperation can cause a little discomfort and redness and smegma discharge. Soo, trip to the doctor, forced retraction on the table, orders to retract and clean with soap = trouble caused by the doc, not the foreskin.
Phismosis- the forsekin isn't supposed to retract in babyhood! *sigh*
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Foreskins can have problems just like any other body part can. Because so many people are trying to justify what they've done for so long without questioning, they are listing all the problems a foreskin can have so that it seems "ok" to go ahead and cut the pesky thing off at birth.
Take any body part and list all the things that can go wrong with it. Like a finger. It can become infected. It can be wounded. It can develop cancer on it. It can become irritated and inflamed.
You treat these issues *as they arise* because that is what you are supposed to do!
The foreskin can become infected. It can be wounded. It can develop cancer on it. It can become irritated and inflamed.
We should also treat these issues *as they arise* but society has been convinced that the foreskin is useless, and no big deal to sacrifice for the greater good. And we're supposed to believe that it is SO much more likely to develop problems than any other body part so that makes it ok.
But none of that justifies circ because ANY body part can have issues and we don't just go chopping off anything and everything that we see as a potential problem.
Statistics? It's hard to say how many people actually have problems with their foreskin because in America, we treat foreskins inappropriately and cause most of the problems. And then we act like all of them are a big deal when most aren't even really problems at all. So it's blown out of proportion.
In countries that don't circ, they probably don't record every tiny little inflammation in a foreskin because it doesn't matter! It's hardly worth noting because it's just another body part!
Here, parents tend to freak out and take their boys to the doc over a little redness because they are paranoid about the infections all foreskins supposedly get because they neglected to have it "taken care of" at birth. In another country, a boy with redness will be treated at home, if treatment is necessary at all.
You just need to look at other countries rate of circ to see that these "problems" are mostly made up and the ones that are real are easily treatable.
That was long-winded...sorry!
Take any body part and list all the things that can go wrong with it. Like a finger. It can become infected. It can be wounded. It can develop cancer on it. It can become irritated and inflamed.
You treat these issues *as they arise* because that is what you are supposed to do!
The foreskin can become infected. It can be wounded. It can develop cancer on it. It can become irritated and inflamed.
We should also treat these issues *as they arise* but society has been convinced that the foreskin is useless, and no big deal to sacrifice for the greater good. And we're supposed to believe that it is SO much more likely to develop problems than any other body part so that makes it ok.
But none of that justifies circ because ANY body part can have issues and we don't just go chopping off anything and everything that we see as a potential problem.
Statistics? It's hard to say how many people actually have problems with their foreskin because in America, we treat foreskins inappropriately and cause most of the problems. And then we act like all of them are a big deal when most aren't even really problems at all. So it's blown out of proportion.
In countries that don't circ, they probably don't record every tiny little inflammation in a foreskin because it doesn't matter! It's hardly worth noting because it's just another body part!
Here, parents tend to freak out and take their boys to the doc over a little redness because they are paranoid about the infections all foreskins supposedly get because they neglected to have it "taken care of" at birth. In another country, a boy with redness will be treated at home, if treatment is necessary at all.
You just need to look at other countries rate of circ to see that these "problems" are mostly made up and the ones that are real are easily treatable.
That was long-winded...sorry!
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Some issues my circed husband has:
-lack of sensitivity while intimate
-over-sensitivity while intimate
-circ done too tight, so his skin is very tight when erect
-hair on shaft of penis as a result of too much skin taken irritates me, even with plenty of lubrication and has caused me to have a labial cyst, which I can't get rid of for more than a few months
-glans rubs on pants and so when he showers, and soap from other body parts gets on it, it burns, for hours
-pain at incision site especially during sex
-he remembers the way the procedure felt and is traumatized as a result
-anger towards his parents for doing it to him
I thought I would give a short list of issues we, personally, have had with circing.
-lack of sensitivity while intimate
-over-sensitivity while intimate
-circ done too tight, so his skin is very tight when erect
-hair on shaft of penis as a result of too much skin taken irritates me, even with plenty of lubrication and has caused me to have a labial cyst, which I can't get rid of for more than a few months
-glans rubs on pants and so when he showers, and soap from other body parts gets on it, it burns, for hours
-pain at incision site especially during sex
-he remembers the way the procedure felt and is traumatized as a result
-anger towards his parents for doing it to him
I thought I would give a short list of issues we, personally, have had with circing.
These are mostly the problems that american doctors create!
A Warning For Parents of Intact Sons http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=129378
The Definition of "Retraction" & Why it is BAD http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=575627
If you clean it as a finger (from outside only) and make sure NO one (exept your son himself) ever messes up with foreskin, your son will be fine
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!
A Warning For Parents of Intact Sons http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=129378
The Definition of "Retraction" & Why it is BAD http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=575627
If you clean it as a finger (from outside only) and make sure NO one (exept your son himself) ever messes up with foreskin, your son will be fine
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here are the problems about circumcision
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=822675
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=822675
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Honestly, I think most people don't even know what problems they're talking about when they say this. My dh recently asked someone if she would be circ'ing her soon-to-be-born son and she said "Oh yeah! I actually knew someone who wasn't circumcised and you just don't want those kinds of problems!" Funny thing is my dh isn't circumcised and has never had 'problems,' so he asked "what kinds of problems?" She just said "well . . . you know . . . problems . . ." It was pretty clear she didn't know what she was talking about.
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Haha, how true. People making themselves authorities, and then you find out they don't know what they are talking about. Imagine that!
Originally Posted by Pumpkinheadmommy Honestly, I think most people don't even know what problems they're talking about when they say this. My dh recently asked someone if she would be circ'ing her soon-to-be-born son and she said "Oh yeah! I actually knew someone who wasn't circumcised and you just don't want those kinds of problems!" Funny thing is my dh isn't circumcised and has never had 'problems,' so he asked "what kinds of problems?" She just said "well . . . you know . . . problems . . ." It was pretty clear she didn't know what she was talking about. |
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Thanks for the info everyone. I never know how to reply when people say, "My brother/uncle/nephew/friend's son wasn't circumcised and he had to get it done when he was 3/13/30. It was terrible and I wouldn't want my son to go through that." What do you say to that?
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Honestly, it is hard to deal with that because right from the get go you're not dealing with a rational thought. One issue is that in the US docs are not as well versed on conservative treatment of foreskin problems (as rare as they are) and then they also cause them with improper care advice. This has gotten much better of course. One way you could approach this is by pointing out that something like 80% of the world's men are intact and they aren't having problems. In places like Europe medically necessary circumcision occur in at least 1/20000 men you might point that out and ask the rhetorical question, so what do you thing we are doing wrong here?
Originally Posted by MichelleAnnette Thanks for the info everyone. I never know how to reply when people say, "My brother/uncle/nephew/friend's son wasn't circumcised and he had to get it done when he was 3/13/30. It was terrible and I wouldn't want my son to go through that." What do you say to that? |
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Originally Posted by MichelleAnnette Thanks for the info everyone. I never know how to reply when people say, "My brother/uncle/nephew/friend's son wasn't circumcised and he had to get it done when he was 3/13/30. It was terrible and I wouldn't want my son to go through that." What do you say to that? |
- So you'd rather him go through it when he is just 2 days old?
- I needed my gallbladder removed when I was 33. I think you should have that removed too.
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Well, my response would be similar to what I wrote previous, but here it is broken down by age
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3, I would say the circ is most likely a cause of improper care or a misdiagnoses of phimosis.
13, Again, improper care is one. Also, males are going through puberty and the skin may not be able to retract until they get farther in to puberty... combine that with overly worried/misinformed son, parents, and/or doctors and you will have a circ that most likely wouldn't have been needed.
30, Again improper care... which includes over zealous cleaning, overuse of antibacterial soaps, use of antibaterial ointment to get rid of a yeast infection (which gets rid of good bacteria too). Phimosis, although some may require circ, most cases can be solved with stretching, however, many doctors will jump to circ as the first option. Torn frenulum, sometimes the frenulum will be short leaving it susceptible to tearing, a frenuloplasty can be done if it is serious enough, but again, many doctors jump to circ as the first option. Preference, some men will get circed because either they or their lover prefers it... an option infant circumcision doesn't give.
So all that said, the bottom line is get rid of the misconceptions about proper care and you eliminate most of the concerns. The remaining ones are rare and usually dont require circumcision.
Originally Posted by MichelleAnnette Thanks for the info everyone. I never know how to reply when people say, "My brother/uncle/nephew/friend's son wasn't circumcised and he had to get it done when he was 3/13/30. It was terrible and I wouldn't want my son to go through that." What do you say to that? |
3, I would say the circ is most likely a cause of improper care or a misdiagnoses of phimosis.
13, Again, improper care is one. Also, males are going through puberty and the skin may not be able to retract until they get farther in to puberty... combine that with overly worried/misinformed son, parents, and/or doctors and you will have a circ that most likely wouldn't have been needed.
30, Again improper care... which includes over zealous cleaning, overuse of antibacterial soaps, use of antibaterial ointment to get rid of a yeast infection (which gets rid of good bacteria too). Phimosis, although some may require circ, most cases can be solved with stretching, however, many doctors will jump to circ as the first option. Torn frenulum, sometimes the frenulum will be short leaving it susceptible to tearing, a frenuloplasty can be done if it is serious enough, but again, many doctors jump to circ as the first option. Preference, some men will get circed because either they or their lover prefers it... an option infant circumcision doesn't give.
So all that said, the bottom line is get rid of the misconceptions about proper care and you eliminate most of the concerns. The remaining ones are rare and usually dont require circumcision.
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Her is a link to the Canadian Pediatric Societys' page for parents regarding circumcision.
http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/preg...rcumcision.htm
According to them, a child circumcised at birth has the exact same chance of needing a second circumcision at some point as a child left intact needing a circumcision at all.
That is two surgeries with all of the risk, pain and trauma compared to just having the *slight* chance of needing one.
Good luck!
Tara
Originally Posted by MichelleAnnette Thanks for the info everyone. I never know how to reply when people say, "My brother/uncle/nephew/friend's son wasn't circumcised and he had to get it done when he was 3/13/30. It was terrible and I wouldn't want my son to go through that." What do you say to that? |
http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/preg...rcumcision.htm
According to them, a child circumcised at birth has the exact same chance of needing a second circumcision at some point as a child left intact needing a circumcision at all.
That is two surgeries with all of the risk, pain and trauma compared to just having the *slight* chance of needing one.
Good luck!
Tara
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This one usually leaves me too stunned to speak. I can't wrap my brain around "he may have to go through it later, and I don't want him to, so I'm going to put him through it unnecessarily now" - total disconnect.
Originally Posted by MichelleAnnette Thanks for the info everyone. I never know how to reply when people say, "My brother/uncle/nephew/friend's son wasn't circumcised and he had to get it done when he was 3/13/30. It was terrible and I wouldn't want my son to go through that." What do you say to that? |
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