Mothering Forum banner
1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
628 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I hope I don't get in trouble for posting this here.

Does anyone know the most efficient way for me to research the following; I want to explore how many jobs involve violence and sadism. Just off the top of my head I could think of many. Policing, the furring industry, medical research, the military, mass production of food, pimping and other aspects of the sex industry...

Also, does anyone have any suggestions for how I could get some numbers regarding how many people are employed in these types of professions in America?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,952 Posts
This is quite an interesting question!

For legitimate economy jobs (that is, not the sex industry in any state except Nevada, I believe) there is a statistics website provided by the Bureau of Labor Statistics of the U.S. Department of Labor. (I had an inkling this existed because there are similar statistics compiled by individual states.) Here is the website with links to documents breaking employment down by occupation:

http://www.bls.gov/oes/home.htm

It seems pretty challenging to navigate, but it should have what you want. You will have to make a more comprehensive list of which professions you want to track.

Sex industry stats? Maybe here?

http://www.bayswan.org/stats.html

This probably belongs in TAO, but you won't be in trouble--just moved.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,570 Posts
What about dentistry?


A lot of medical professionals do things that are painful, and falsely tell their patients there is nothing that can be done about the pain. I've heard it's a great field to go into if you don't like people and want to act out your frustrations on them.
:

Fortunately, I suspect most dentists/doctors do not have this motivation in mind when they sign up, but if someone did, the pain he caused could easily be explained away by blaming the patient's defective body.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,952 Posts
Did you read Foucault recently? I'm wondering about how you are thinking about this question. That is, how you classify jobs as inherently sadistic.

(Foucault seemed to think every job was inherently sadistic!
)
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
628 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thank you for much Captain Optimism!!! I really appreciate those links!


It's kind of involved, but this question came to mind during a discussion about rape. A friend of mine said that only sexual predators, sociopathic and psychopathic personalities raped. I asked how she explained the systematic use of rape as a military tactic if such was the case, and she said that military service was likely to attract violent and sadistic personalities.

While this is true, I don't think it explains systemic rape as a military tactic. I started thinking about how many jobs were violent and sadistic, something I had been thinking about anyway because of the enormous amount of suffering caused to animals by researchers and various industries. It just seemed to me that violence and sadism is more intrinsic to humanity than most people realize, so I started wondering just how many people were employed in industries guilty of such abuses, whether or not those individuals personally engage in violence or sadism.

It occurred to me that the numbers would probably be staggering.

AND, most of those industries are clearly dominated by men.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greaseball
What about dentistry?


A lot of medical professionals do things that are painful, and falsely tell their patients there is nothing that can be done about the pain. I've heard it's a great field to go into if you don't like people and want to act out your frustrations on them.
:

Fortunately, I suspect most dentists/doctors do not have this motivation in mind when they sign up, but if someone did, the pain he caused could easily be explained away by blaming the patient's defective body.

True dat. Teaching is another field that can draw sadistic control freaks, but I am looking more at work that is indisputably based on violence and sadism, not work where such things occur sporadically, but thank you for trying to help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,952 Posts
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarihah
True dat. Teaching is another field that can draw sadistic control freaks, but I am looking more at work that is indisputably based on violence and sadism, not work where such things occur sporadically, but thank you for trying to help.
That teaching and the helping professions are sadistic was Foucault's point. I don't know if I agree with him. It used to be de rigeur to read Discipline and Punish, back in the late 1980s early 1990s, but I haven't read it since. Or maybe what I read was A Foucault Reader? Whatever, I read plenty of that, uh, stuff at one time. I understood Foucault to be saying that any opportunity to exercise power will result in a form of sadism and an attempt to control.

Jane Addams, a turn of the 20th century pacifist most famous for her work in the settlement house movement, believed that human beings had equally strong drives toward violence and toward community building. Her theory was that people could decide to reward/cultivate the drives that led to a more peaceful society. (I hope I haven't summarized that down to nothing!) I think one problem with saying that any behavior is instinctive is that it doesn't acknowledge free will. What Addams wrote makes sense to me, that we have more than one set of instincts, more than one direction we could go.

(Now that I've gotten started!) I don't think that men have to rape, even though using sex as a weapon has a long history. We make all kinds of decisions as a society that foster a culture of rape and other forms of violence. Certainly our tendency to condone the punishment of children is one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,018 Posts
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarihah
AND, most of those industries are clearly dominated by men.

I am looking more at work that is indisputably based on violence and sadism, not work where such things occur sporadically,
Most industries in all areas are clearly dominated by men.

Also, it's impossible to find a list of jobs that are indisputably based on violence and sadism. It's too subjective. One may argue that the basis for all the jobs you listed (military, police, medical research, sex industry jobs et al.) is actually the betterment of humanity. In order to come up with a list to reflect your point, you need to define more clearly what you mean by "based on violence and sadism".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
842 Posts
Quote:

Originally Posted by captain optimism
I don't think that men have to rape, even though using sex as a weapon has a long history. We make all kinds of decisions as a society that foster a culture of rape and other forms of violence. Certainly our tendency to condone the punishment of children is one.

I totally agree with that. I also think that the sheer numbers of rape vicitms kind of contradict your friends point. There have to be, in those numbers, men who are not psychopaths or sociopaths who rape- men who seem totally normal in every other way, but have raped a woman.

kaly
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
17,022 Posts
Quote:
Teaching is another field that can draw sadistic control freaks
I have multiple friends whose children had to pee sitting at their desks in school because the teacher refused to allow them to go to the bathroom. For one of them, that was the day before she started homeschooling (and the reason) why.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,755 Posts
i think it what will be difficult will be drawing the line between the control freaks (whose actions can *appear* sadistic to those the affect but are not intended as such) and true sadists who experience pleasure (sexual or otherwise) from being cruel.

i gues i am thinking of those people who really think they are doing things in someone's best interest, but aren't getting pleasure out of it - like the teacher example - that teacher probably didn't WANT to humiliate those kids by making them pee on themselves, but was probably trying to instill patience/attention to academic tasks/fill in the blank here.

i worked in juvenile justice for a while - and there are tons of people who sought to contol the kids we worked with - either to "teach them about respect" or to "ensure they follow the rules." but sadists? i don't *think* so. could be, but i don't think so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,952 Posts
Quote:

Originally Posted by kate~emmasmom
i think it what will be difficult will be drawing the line between the control freaks (whose actions can *appear* sadistic to those the affect but are not intended as such) and true sadists who experience pleasure (sexual or otherwise) from being cruel.

i gues i am thinking of those people who really think they are doing things in someone's best interest, but aren't getting pleasure out of it - like the teacher example - that teacher probably didn't WANT to humiliate those kids by making them pee on themselves, but was probably trying to instill patience/attention to academic tasks/fill in the blank here.

i worked in juvenile justice for a while - and there are tons of people who sought to contol the kids we worked with - either to "teach them about respect" or to "ensure they follow the rules." but sadists? i don't *think* so. could be, but i don't think so.
Under what circumstances does it teach a child something valuable if you don't let him use the bathroom? I have never been able to figure that out. To me, it looks like teachers are saying "I get to control everything here, even your body, and I don't believe you when you say you have to urinate." They might not want the children to pee on themselves, but they definitely want to humilate them. If you were working in a job and you weren't allowed to get up to pee without your supervisor's permission, how would that feel?

I absolutely do think that there is a strong element of sadism in the way we as a society treat children. I think one of the things that Foucault was trying to say (like I really understand Foucault!) is that any system in which you are in charge of someone will bring out sadism.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
42,757 Posts
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarihah

Does anyone know the most efficient way for me to research the following; I want to explore how many jobs involve violence and sadism. Just off the top of my head I could think of many. Policing, the furring industry, medical research, the military, mass production of food, pimping and other aspects of the sex industry...

Also, does anyone have any suggestions for how I could get some numbers regarding how many people are employed in these types of professions in America?
What is this research for? There have been psycholigical studies regarding this subject but without it handy it would all be conjecture.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
628 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by abimommy
What is this research for? There have been psycholigical studies regarding this subject but without it handy it would all be conjecture.

The research stems from my curiosity, thats all. I'm just a very curious person. I'd love to know more about these studies you mention.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
628 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by captain optimism
Under what circumstances does it teach a child something valuable if you don't let him use the bathroom? I have never been able to figure that out. To me, it looks like teachers are saying "I get to control everything here, even your body, and I don't believe you when you say you have to urinate." They might not want the children to pee on themselves, but they definitely want to humilate them. If you were working in a job and you weren't allowed to get up to pee without your supervisor's permission, how would that feel?

I absolutely do think that there is a strong element of sadism in the way we as a society treat children. I think one of the things that Foucault was trying to say (like I really understand Foucault!) is that any system in which you are in charge of someone will bring out sadism.

I had a teacher in the second grade who wouldn't let me go to the bathroom, and I finally peed at my desk. We had a bathroom in the classroom, but she still wouldn't let me go. She said I should have gone after lunch, but I didn't NEED to go after lunch.

I'm not sure if I agree with Foucault, but I'm not sure if I disagree with him either. There seems to be so MUCH sadism in the world...but I am in charge of my daughter without being in any way sadistic towards her.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25,064 Posts
Like the PP, I was going to say that sometimes teaching involves a bit of sadism.

I have had parents tell me that their child NEEDS to go when they ask, so I agree to cooperate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,269 Posts
The presidency of the United States.

Then again, any governing position that entails making decisions or creating policies that involve the suffering or death of human beings and maintaining societal policies that alienate human beings because they are not what society calls normal or part of the dominant culture.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
842 Posts
I agree that teaching tends to attract more controlling people, but I'm not sure I'd call what usually goes on sadistic...

I don't know.

Do you think that parenting tends to bring out the controlling aspect in some people? Does it verge on sadistic?

Kaly
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
42,757 Posts
I believe that any person put in the position of controlling another has a chance of becoming sadistic.

Looking at studies like the Stanford Prison Experiment (which is horrifying and shocking) I hesitate to say that sadists look for these positions but that these positions can often create such behaviors.

http://www.prisonexp.org/
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top