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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Though I'm not yet hsing, I'm always researching and really enjoy learning from homeschoolers. I hope we'll be able to make the jump soon.

Anyway, a relatively new acquaintance of mine recently said that she would never put her kids in public school because public schools "propogandize" kids. I didn't have a chance to ask her what she meant because there was a lot going on, but I wanted to pose the question here.

If you think "propogandizing" is a problem with ps, what exactly do you mean? Is it the curriculum? The whole philosophy of public ed? Or something else entirely? If you have examples, please share them.
 

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propagandizing is a really silly word, if in fact it is a word at all
Do you think she means that kids are taught certain cultural myths, like that Columbus was a somewhat deluded explorer and a hero, and that the fact that he opened the way to colonizing the americas makes the terrible stuff he did OK? Or maybe programs like DARE? Or Channel One, where schools have to show Coke commercials and military recruiting messages for a certain period of time every day in order to get free A/V equipment?
 

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Well a few possibilities come to mind.

1. Schools selling the kids on the top down method of teaching. "If I don't tell you to learn it, it isn't important".

2. Constant exposure to brand and "the lastest craze".

3. Teaching an Americanized version of subjects (History mainly).
 

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She was probably referring to the notion that public schools indoctrinate children with particular ideas which are not conducive to a progressive world-view...

But I agree that "propogandizing" is a silly word, if it is in fact a word at all.
:
 

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For me, one of my dislikes about public school is the way it is used by government bureaucrats to push their ideological agendas. They teach "abstinence only" sex-ed, they define families, and a whole host of other touchy social/moral/ethical issues I think should be left to families to teach their children. I particularly dislike the fact that parents often have almost no power over or even awareness of what their kids are being taught.

I am liberal, and so I often agree with the schools' take on social issues, but I don't agree with the school teaching them. Is there anything more ludicrous than teaching kids about families in school?

ZM
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by frogguruami View Post
Well a few possibilities come to mind.

1. Schools selling the kids on the top down method of teaching. "If I don't tell you to learn it, it isn't important".

2. Constant exposure to brand and "the lastest craze".

3. Teaching an Americanized version of subjects (History mainly).
yea, frogg's #2 is what came to my mind first. your friend may have simply meant consumerism. it is very prevalent in PS.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the insights. I'm honestly not sure what she meant! I don't know her well enough to know if she meant that schools were pushing a liberal agenda or a conservative one. Anyway, I'm not sure when I'll encounter her again, but I'll have to ask when I do.

But I did look it up and it IS a real word (she strikes me as a pretty smart lady, so I guess that's not surprising)
 

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For whatever it's worth, I've personally never heard of a school in the mainstream that pushes a liberal agenda. I think they just tend to spread the kind of cultural myths mentioned in earlier posts. And it is in the curriculum, yes - right in the textbooks. In James Loewen's book, for instance, Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong, he examines the 12 most commonly used high school history texts, and it's really amazing what's in some of them. He describes the way the authors of one of them, for example, literally went about deciding how they were going to portray a certain incident, deciding to completely change the way the story went in order to get across a certain message they preferred to convey, whereas the truth would have sent a different message
: - here are some notes from that book.

And, of course, there are also the more subtle social/cultural messages all along the way. - Lillian
 

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I dunno- as an *ahem* aspiring English professor, I don't really have a problem with the word "propagandizing". Silly, yes. However, new words happen all the time, because language is a living, evolving thing, and we have entered the age of the portmanteau, so it's no sillier than, say, "ginormous".

While I agree that indoctrination is an okay choice, it indicates that the brainwashing took. IME, while the "propagandizing" was intense and soul-crushing, it didn't take. They tried, but, thank Heaven, were unable to indoctrinate me.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Leta View Post
I dunno- as an *ahem* aspiring English professor, I don't really have a problem with the word "propagandizing". Silly, yes. However, new words happen all the time, because language is a living, evolving thing, and we have entered the age of the portmanteau, so it's no sillier than, say, "ginormous".
A whole nother thing. Do you know you can actually find that stupid word in the dictionary now???

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1):
noth·er [nuhth-er]
-adjective
Informal. a whole nother, an entirely different; a whole other.
[Origin: 1955-60; metanalysis of an other or another]
My pet peeve
: - but I had a feeling it was going to end up being accepted as a word.

Although I must say the word "propogandizing" seems perfectly fine to me. Go figure.

- Lillian
 

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Well, the public schools and government in NZ push a fairly liberal ideology of secular humanism. What irks me is the schools don't teach secular humanism; they just assume it. So the child grows up thinking his public school education is 'normal' and 'neutral', and any other POV--religious, for example--is 'biased'. Never mind that he has never been taught, during the course of his public school life, to think critically. NZ schools don't even teach basic logic. And if you asked a schoolkid 'So, is your school secular humanist?' he wouldn't have a clue what you were on about. He'd just continue to blindly absorb the ideology which the good and noble government has decreed is Correct.

This came up recently in an interview on homeschooling. Some NZ homeschooled whizkid graduated from Uni at 16 or so, and as a result the newspaper did a big 'Homeschoolers who Made It' feature. By some random criteria my family was considered to have Made It, so me, my sister and Mum were interviewed by a nice if clueless reporter. And, sure enough, the question eventually came up, 'You're homeschoolers and religious; aren't you worried that your education may have been biased?'. We each answered in turn, saying more or less the same thing: 'Well, every education is biased; there's no such thing as a 'neutral' education. The difference is that as homeschooling Christians, there is no way we could be unaware of the mainstream worldview--it's everywhere! Whereas in school, only one worldview is presented; so in fact, the children grow up a lot more sheltered, and unaware of the biases present in their own education'.

None of which quotes made it into the final, very-truncated article!
A pity, I think, because it's a common misconception. It's like saying 'But if you grow up in a Jewish home, you'll never find out about how Gentiles live!' Uh... yeah, you will. But if you grow up in a Gentile home, you'll probably have no idea about Judaism! Minorities are always aware of their differences; it's those in the majority who have to be aware that they're not the only people to have graced the planet.

Okay, that was a bit of a rant; sorry! Issue dear to my heart, and all that. Yes, propaganda it is.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Lillian J View Post

A whole nother thing. Do you know you can actually find that stupid word in the dictionary now???

I love "a whole nother."
It cracks me up. It's the superlative form of "another," as in:

We have another problem.

We have a whole nother problem.
Obviously, in the second example the problem is much bigger.

(And I know that now you'all are seriously worried about me homeschooling my kids
)
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post
I love "a whole nother."
It cracks me up. It's the superlative form of "another," as in:

We have another problem.

We have a whole nother problem.
Obviously, in the second example the problem is much bigger.

(And I know that now you'all are seriously worried about me homeschooling my kids
)

Now that is funny! I guess I have to stop marking that one wrong on my students' papers!
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post
I love "a whole nother."
It cracks me up.


Quote:
It's the superlative form of "another," as in:

We have another problem.

We have a whole nother problem.
Obviously, in the second example the problem is much bigger.
And it would be just as big if simply worded:

"We have a whole other problem"!

Don't mess with me on my worst pet peeve, Linda!
:
- Lillian
 

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I think public schools definately use a sort of propaganda to advance the world view they (the government, corporations, etc...) want to impart upon the succesive generations of graduates. This view is taught to specifically exclude other ways of seeing the world.
An example would be the assumtion that all students in thesystem will grow up to work a worker bee job, instead of maybe teaching children to work for themselves (but our whole economic system is set up to be dependent upon the constant consumer drive).
"Social Studies" in particular is taught with a major propoganda twist. I think the history they teach is, in the words of Henry Ford, "bunk". Even the politically correct stuff is taught in a way I don't really agree with.
And school itself is a sot of propaganda in that they really present going to school as the norm, what kids do. It is a self perpetuating aort of thing where kids are taght to not question authority and to be seated and quiet.

This is a timely threas because I actaully had a relavent dream last night in which I had sent ds to a public school. I was for some reason sitting in the classroom with the class. First the teacher came out and announced that the class would be doing spelling. She proceeded to sort of hypnotize the class wirth a look. Then, when everyone was quiet, she began to writ the spelling words on th board. I was shocked to see one of the words was al Qaida!
This was a third grade class. I stood up and said I would be taking my son home as I don't want him to be taught politics as spelling words.
 

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Quote:
Well, the public schools and government in NZ push a fairly liberal ideology of secular humanism. What irks me is the schools don't teach secular humanism; they just assume it. So the child grows up thinking his public school education is 'normal' and 'neutral', and any other POV--religious, for example--is 'biased'. Never mind that he has never been taught, during the course of his public school life, to think critically. NZ schools don't even teach basic logic. And if you asked a schoolkid 'So, is your school secular humanist?' he wouldn't have a clue what you were on about. He'd just continue to blindly absorb the ideology which the good and noble government has decreed is Correct.

This came up recently in an interview on homeschooling. Some NZ homeschooled whizkid graduated from Uni at 16 or so, and as a result the newspaper did a big 'Homeschoolers who Made It' feature. By some random criteria my family was considered to have Made It, so me, my sister and Mum were interviewed by a nice if clueless reporter. And, sure enough, the question eventually came up, 'You're homeschoolers and religious; aren't you worried that your education may have been biased?'. We each answered in turn, saying more or less the same thing: 'Well, every education is biased; there's no such thing as a 'neutral' education. The difference is that as homeschooling Christians, there is no way we could be unaware of the mainstream worldview--it's everywhere! Whereas in school, only one worldview is presented; so in fact, the children grow up a lot more sheltered, and unaware of the biases present in their own education'.

None of which quotes made it into the final, very-truncated article! A pity, I think, because it's a common misconception. It's like saying 'But if you grow up in a Jewish home, you'll never find out about how Gentiles live!' Uh... yeah, you will. But if you grow up in a Gentile home, you'll probably have no idea about Judaism! Minorities are always aware of their differences; it's those in the majority who have to be aware that they're not the only people to have graced the planet.

Okay, that was a bit of a rant; sorry! Issue dear to my heart, and all that. Yes, propaganda it is.
Just what I would have said but said better.
 

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One reason why we homeschool. I don't want my kids to be immersed in a humanistic school all day. They don't need to see soda machines in their school. They don't need the pressure of wearing the "right" clothes. There is a lot of politics and propaganda in schools and I wouldn't expose my children to that.

Crystal
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Lillian J View Post

And it would be just as big if simply worded:

"We have a whole other problem"!

Don't mess with me on my worst pet peeve, Linda!
:
- Lillian

Sure, but that would take all the fun out of it. I love "nother." I love to hear people say it, I love to say it myself. It just cracks me up because:

1) it has no meaning
2) people use it to express strong feelings or concerns

You would think that when people were expressing something strongly, they would go for REAL words, but no, alas no. They use made up words like "nother." You gotta laugh.


And now, just to drive Lillian crazy....

nother nother nother nother
 
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