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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
http://news.nationalpost.com/full-c...little-more-difficult-for-anti-vaxxer-parents

YOU NEED TO BE EDUCATED!!!! Parents are too stupid anymore to make this decision on their own.

That could change, however, by the time the 2016-2017 school year rolls around. In December, the Ontario government proposed an amendment to the Immunization of School Pupils Act that would mean that parents seeking non-medical exemptions for their children would be required to attend an information session held by their local public health unit. Parents could still file an exemption after attending the session, but the process will no longer be as simple as checking a box and signing on the line. The hope is that with a little education, parents will think twice about the nonsense they might have read on blogs or alternative news sites.
and how nice of them to assume ALL parents get their info from such places, and put everyone in a nice neat little nonvaxing box.
 

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You know what? I would love to have to attend one of these sessions. If I had the time, I would develop a question sheet for parents to take to these sessions. Let's see who gets the education then, right? >:D
I live in Ontario! Sadly, because a part of me would like to go and see what their power point was like and be mildly pesty (cue cue cards, and I am a fairly articulate speaker), I will not have any children in public school next year for the first time in years. My middle is set to graduate, and my youngest is homeschooled. I do have friends with unvaxxed or selectively vaxxed children in school. I will report on what they say.

Exemptions in Ontario are done once - when you enroll a child in school. You take a form to a municipal office, have the clerk stamp it, and send the form to the health unit.

Honestly, I think the whole initiative may be something of a flop. I expect the province will delegate the job to local health units. Are they going to have everyone who has an exemption on file take the workshop? Or just new people submitting a form? Most people with vaccine exemptions in Ontario are fairly well educated on the issue. One cannot get an exemption form at the school on the spot, so there are very people who filled out a form for convenience (because it was easier than finding the vaccine record, or getting that last vaccine...). I cannot imagine anyone will run and get their kids vaccinated based on one pro-vax spiel.

I will also add that I have not been overly impressed with public health promoters in this area. They often run babytales at the library I work at, and most of the information they give out to parents is quite basic. They leave a lot of pamphlets. I can see the parents eyes glaze over. I cannot imagine any pro-vax spiel would be any better (and the audience may be even less receptive)
 

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I live in Ontario! Sadly, because a part of me would like to go and see what their power point was like and be mildly pesty (cue cue cards, and I am a fairly articulate speaker), I will not have any children in public school next year for the first time in years. My middle is set to graduate, and my youngest is homeschooled. I do have friends with unvaxxed or selectively vaxxed children in school. I will report on what they say.

Exemptions in Ontario are done once - when you enroll a child in school. You take a form to a municipal office, have the clerk stamp it, and send the form to the health unit.

Honestly, I think the whole initiative may be something of a flop. I expect the province will delegate the job to local health units. Are they going to have everyone who has an exemption on file take the workshop? Or just new people submitting a form? Most people with vaccine exemptions in Ontario are fairly well educated on the issue. One cannot get an exemption form at the school on the spot, so there are very people who filled out a form for convenience (because it was easier than finding the vaccine record, or getting that last vaccine...). I cannot imagine anyone will run and get their kids vaccinated based on one pro-vax spiel.

I will also add that I have not been overly impressed with public health promoters in this area. They often run babytales at the library I work at, and most of the information they give out to parents is quite basic. They leave a lot of pamphlets. I can see the parents eyes glaze over. I cannot imagine any pro-vax spiel would be any better (and the audience may be even less receptive)
What is the deal with Ontario? When we lived in Alberta, no one batted an eye when we enrolled our daughter in Kindergarten.

I also don't see this as especially onerous (attending a session and signing the form) given where I'm living now. Especially if it is the local health nurses doing the lecture. Unless their professional development has changed a lot from when I spoke with them a decade ago, most couldn't answer questions that were not already listed on the info pamphlet.
 

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I live in Ontario! Sadly, because a part of me would like to go and see what their power point was like and be mildly pesty (cue cue cards, and I am a fairly articulate speaker), I will not have any children in public school next year for the first time in years. My middle is set to graduate, and my youngest is homeschooled. I do have friends with unvaxxed or selectively vaxxed children in school. I will report on what they say.

Exemptions in Ontario are done once - when you enroll a child in school. You take a form to a municipal office, have the clerk stamp it, and send the form to the health unit.

Honestly, I think the whole initiative may be something of a flop. I expect the province will delegate the job to local health units. Are they going to have everyone who has an exemption on file take the workshop? Or just new people submitting a form? Most people with vaccine exemptions in Ontario are fairly well educated on the issue. One cannot get an exemption form at the school on the spot, so there are very people who filled out a form for convenience (because it was easier than finding the vaccine record, or getting that last vaccine...). I cannot imagine anyone will run and get their kids vaccinated based on one pro-vax spiel.

I will also add that I have not been overly impressed with public health promoters in this area. They often run babytales at the library I work at, and most of the information they give out to parents is quite basic. They leave a lot of pamphlets. I can see the parents eyes glaze over. I cannot imagine any pro-vax spiel would be any better (and the audience may be even less receptive)
Yeah, I am not aware of any studies that show these measures are all that helpful (some studies show presenting information has the opposite effect, in fact). I think they would catch the parents that filed an exemption out of laziness or because they didn't want to take time off work or whatever but I think that is likely a very small portion of parents who have filed an exemption in Ontario.
 
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I think they would catch the parents that filed an exemption out of laziness or because they didn't want to take time off work or whatever but I think that is likely a very small portion of parents who have filed an exemption in Ontario.

Really? I can't even gasp why a PRO vaccer would think this but clearly some are so out of touch! Thanks for showing us this POV :eyesroll I see a LOT of laziness and sloppiness but it's not from those taking exemptions!
 

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I think inferring that (even just some) parents file exemptions because they are lazy is one of those falsehoods that is thrown out to tarnish vaccine critics. It isn't rational or logical.

kathymuggle said:

You take a form to a municipal office, have the clerk stamp it, and send the form to the health unit.
How is that easier than showing up at the health unit for a vaccine?

I don't think Canadians (or perhaps that is, I really hope they wouldn't) would be able to stomach mandatory vaccines without exemptions. I really don't see that flying especially in Quebec. This information session may be some type of concession to the pharmaceutical companies who no doubt want to see exemptions removed.
 

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I think inferring that (even just some) parents file exemptions because they are lazy is one of those falsehoods that is thrown out to tarnish vaccine critics. It isn't rational or logical.
Deliberately done IMO

Grasping at straws to go after and discredit and paint with that broad brush. Had we called or even hinted that PRO parents are " lazy" even the lurkers would have swooped in on here, but say it about us and no problem!!!!!!!

Insult and think nothing of it! Shows the mindset of those desperate for justification.
 

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I think people can be lazy, and it does not matter what their vaccine stance is.

I think lazy often means overwhelmed or mildly depressed if one looks at little closer at the issue.

I remember reading that in some states, it was real easy to get an exemption. The forms were at the school, and parents could sign one when they went to register their kids. I think it was Washington or Oregon. It is widely thought that this sort of ease of exemptions artificially inflated "non-vax" numbers. I cannot really say I blame the parents for doing this. If I vaxxed, but was behind on vaccines or could not find my paperwork, I would fill out the exemption if it was handed to me at enrollment. Convenience is nice.

I was simply stating that this is not the case in Ontario. We already have small hoops to jump through to get an exemption. People in Ontario are not filling exemptions out of convenience. The public health nurse or whomever they hire to give the spiel will likely be facing a room full of fairly convicted non-vaxxers.

Another issue (and this one is speculative) is that the Ontario government sometimes does things a bit half assed. For example, a few years ago a lot of my friends were in a tizzy because they got a letter from the new homeschool liason in the local school board. The liason wanted forms filled out, was talking about portfolios of work, etc, etc. Nothing ever came of it (other than scaring some moms). Why? They hired one liason for a huge school board.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
kathymuggle;19224529 I remember reading that in some states said:
That was my experience in '93 enrolling my child in Boulder Co schools...we were new, didn't have any records, and the secretary just said, 'here, just sign this line', so I did. I did it to keep the school from getting in trouble since my child at that time had no records, nor received any vaccines since 1990. It also enabled me to research without pressure and stress and make a more informed decision on my children's health. At that time, Mothering was a magazine, and yes, it did have some influence on my decision, as did meeting other like minded parents who had sickly children like my son was.
 

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That was my experience in '93 enrolling my child in Boulder Co schools...we were new, didn't have any records, and the secretary just said, 'here, just sign this line', so I did. I did it to keep the school from getting in trouble since my child at that time had no records, nor received any vaccines since 1990. It also enabled me to research without pressure and stress and make a more informed decision on my children's health. At that time, Mothering was a magazine, and yes, it did have some influence on my decision, as did meeting other like minded parents who had sickly children like my son was.
Doing what is allowable isn't "lazy", saying that doing so is lazy, that is insulting.
 

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I think inferring that (even just some) parents file exemptions because they are lazy is one of those falsehoods that is thrown out to tarnish vaccine critics. It isn't rational or logical.
As said above, I think it can happen when the exemption process is incredibly easy (not Ontario....I shudder to think how long I would have to stand in line at a clerks office in Toronto to get a form stamped!) The catch is, it isn't typically done by the non-vaxxed, but by the undervaxxed. They are two distinct groups.
 
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That was my experience in '93 enrolling my child in Boulder Co schools...we were new, didn't have any records, and the secretary just said, 'here, just sign this line', so I did. I did it to keep the school from getting in trouble since my child at that time had no records, nor received any vaccines since 1990.
I would have done it, too. I think virtually all parents would. It is legal, convenient and following school policy.
 
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As said above, I think it can happen when the exemption process is incredibly easy (not Ontario....I shudder to think how long I would have to stand in line at a clerks office in Toronto to get a form stamped!) The catch is, it isn't typically done by the non-vaxxed, but by the undervaxxed. They are two distinct groups.
Perhaps I should have been more clear or quoted Teacozy's post, here is what she said:

I think they would catch the parents that filed an exemption out of laziness or because they didn't want to take time off work or whatever but I think that is likely a very small portion of parents who have filed an exemption in Ontario.
As Teacozy was speaking to the situation in Ontario, so was I. If you have to go somewhere to file an exemption, have it processed and then send it off that is not easier than going to get the vaccine. So I think for Ontario, we can rule out laziness as a reason for people who have an exemption.

I still question the excuse of laziness in places where exemptions are relatively easy to get particularly in the States. I think it is more likely down to not having a health care plan and/or not being able to get the time off work or be able to afford to miss work (when one is paid hourly). I think it is about priorities for most people.

So where is the data? Where are the studies that canvassed people with unvaccinated children and determined they are too lazy to get their kids vaccinated? I think calling people lazy (using the definition - unwilling to work or expend energy) based on assumptions and not facts is lazy in itself. And that is not directed at any one here; I'm speaking about stuff that's put out in the media or parroted by agencies.
 

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So where is the data? Where are the studies that canvassed people with unvaccinated children and determined they are too lazy to get their kids vaccinated? I think calling people lazy (using the definition - unwilling to work or expend energy) based on assumptions and not facts is lazy in itself. And that is not directed at any one here; I'm speaking about stuff that's put out in the media or parroted by agencies.
Anytime the assumption that one is lazy is thrown out there you do mean to insult. Lazy isn't a flattering term! As said, if you follow the law, that is not lazy!

Clearly @teacozy choose that wording, must be for a reason to convey what?? @teacozy care to elaborate here?
 

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So I think for Ontario, we can rule out laziness as a reason for people who have an exemption.

I still question the excuse of laziness in places where exemptions are relatively easy to get particularly in the States. I think it is more likely down to not having a health care plan and/or not being able to get the time off work or be able to afford to miss work (when one is paid hourly). I think it is about priorities for most people.

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I agree on both points. I don't think convenience is a reason people file exemptions in Ontario.

I think we should pull the word laziness out of the discussion. I hinted at it up above when I said lazy is often code for overwhelmed or depressed, but I will say it more firmly now. Vaccines are not an area people are lazy about, IMO. The pressure to vaccinate is everywhere, and in many place you do need to have the vaccines utd or file an exemption to send your kids to school. There are large consequences to not vaccinating. If you are generally ok with vaccines, but your child is not utd, something else is going on beyond laziness - you cannot get time off work, you have transportation issues, etc, etc.
 

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As to the US, parents that did get in trouble, I'm thinking of the mess in Maryland a few years back. Those parents simply did not have their children up to date when they were called into a court. Not that they filed an exemption (out of laziness or what ever) they simply didn't file anything. That is a big difference.

Frankly I do see the PRO Agenda trying to get in digs where ever and when ever they can to go after parents that make an educated (YES that is the correct word, educated!) choice not to vaccinate.
 

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It is a lot like mixing up accidental out of hospital births with intentional home births when you want to make home birth look dangerous.

State Departments of Health should be more effective at reaching families who want to vaccinate but have trouble getting all the pieces together. Rather than using their own failure at outreach as an excuse to harass families who don't want to vaccinate.
 
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