[aisraeltax]

i just heard there is a proposed law in Michigan (?) that will outlaw smoking cigarettes with minors in the car. Why would anyone oppose this law? There is no debate (any longer...since we now have the data hidden from us for so many years) that cigarette smoke is bad for us and second hand smoke is even worse. Who would even smoke in an automobile with a child? I just don't get it...sorry for the rant but was wondering if anyone in Michigan knows if this law is really being adamantly opposed. Will try to post a link if I can find one but too tired right now.
rach

 

[Marsupialmom]

Because it is the government being too invading. Yes, smoking in a car isn't good but it really oversteps government boundries. It is extending the Nanny state.

 

[ChasingPeace]

I live in Michigan, but haven't really heard anything about this, other than it's proposed. I think people would object that it's an invasion of privacy--people see their car in the same way they see their home. In fact, that will probably be the argument, "what's next, banning smoking in my home?"

 

[Allie2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChasingPeace I live in Michigan, but haven't really heard anything about this, other than it's proposed. I think people would object that it's an invasion of privacy--people see their car in the same way they see their home. In fact, that will probably be the argument, "what's next, banning smoking in my home?"

If people are smoking in thier homes in front of their children then I think there should be a ban on smoking in the home. That's wishful thinking of course, it could never be enforced effectively. But it might help those out that have pesky family that refuse to butt out around children.

 

[chfriend]

Saying something is unhealthy or a bad idea is one thing. Educational campaigns and the like. But when you pass a law you give the police instruction to detain someone and at least cite them.

Please remember the mother who was arrested and carried to jail for not buckling her children up in Texas. The US Supreme Court held that even if the punishment did not include jail ($50 fine there) it is permissible for a police officer to take her from her children, handcuff her, put in her in the back of a police car, drive her away from her children, fingerprint, photograph, and confine her.

The risk of lung problems for children for smoking in confined spaces can be publicized. But using the power of the police/state to enforce it in a "private" zone is a very bad idea.

 

[chersolly]

Lighting up/smoking a cigarette while driving is a dangerous distraction, just like cell phone use.

 

[Galatea]

I don't understand why people want to pass laws giving the govt even more power to invade their private lives and arrest/punish/whatever. B/c some day someone is going to want a law that infringes upon something you do that you think is personally fine, and then you will be pissed. Whose morality are we going to enshrine as the right one? Do you want to be arrested for feeding your child non-organic food? Probably just as bad as cigarrette smoke. Shouldn't we protect your child from that? What about formula-feeders? Shouldn't we arrest them for harming their children? What about non-vaxxing parents? What if their kid dies from measles? Shouldn't they be arrested for harming their children?

See where you get with these sorts of laws? Who decides what is good? Do you trust those people to decide correctly? When so many of us here mistrust the govt, then why do we want them to pass more laws? Think they will be any better at those?

 

[ERSsmom]

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[charmander]

I don't want laws that take away rights. This law would.

And I don't even smoke and would never allow someone to smoke in my car. It's the principle behind it that bothers me.

 

[Dragonfly]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmd I don't want laws that take away rights. This law would

There's no constitutional right to smoke all over your children.

I'm all for it. The harmful effects are well-documented. A child's "right" to breathe fresh air trumps a parent's "right" to smoke wherever they want. This "slippery slope" fear really can be taken too far.

 

[Ceinwen]

Sorry, but I agree with the majority (so far).

I want the government to stay the hell out of my personal business.

Because slippery slope nonsense or not - it *can* go that way? What about alcohol? Violent TV? Carpeting?

Anything?

Besides, I'm hoping better education will reach people more than laws.

Who would obey this law anyway? It would be like the no cell phone use one - no teeth to it at all.

 

[BeeandOwlsMum]

You know, in principal - I like the idea of not allowing smoking in cars, just like I like the idea of having to have a handfree/headset to use your cell phone...

But it really bothers me that people lack the common sense to make the correct decision about smoking around their kids. It also bothers me that the government seems to think that making another law is solving the problem. It isn't solving the problem. It is treating a symptom of the problem. The problem being the tobacco industry and the addiction it fosters(I smoked for years.)

I had a discussion with DH about this need to protect us from ourselves...in Portland, cops have been looking into parked cars to make sure there are no valuables in them, if they find something in them - they then send a letter to the car owner - after running their plates - to give them "tips" on how to not have their car broken into.

.

I don't like it when people smoke around children. I hate it - it makes me nuts. But all this is going to do it make smoker continue to scream about their "right" to smoke being violated. It isn't going to get them to quit - nor is it going to keep their kids from ingesting the smoke at home - which is much much worse as it is in the clothing, the carpet, the beds, their hair, etc.

I just don't think this is going to do much in the long run, but cause a lot of court battles and make people even more defensive of their smoking. And when you make a smoker defensive, the tend to smoke more. At least every smoker I have ever known or dealt with does, me included.

 

[tayndrewsmama]

They should just get rid of it completely. People who smoke around children are just ignorant a$$holes, IMO. Anyone I have ever talked to about that who disagrees thinks that it's their body and doesn't hurt anyone else. People choose to hear what they want in regards to second hand smoke. Instead of admitting that they can't or won't quit, they talk themselves into believing it doesn't hurt anyone else and what they do with their bodies is their business. Heck, my in-laws think that my mother-in-law got bronchitis *because* she was smoking outside in the winter, not because she was smoking. Now she smokes inside.

Couldn't tell 'ya if that helps or not 'cause we haven't spoken to them in years, but obviously that's for more reasons than their smoking ideas.

At any rate, cigarette smoke really ticks me off when I smell it. It makes me even more mad when some twit drives by in a mini-van loaded with kids and a cigarette in thier mouth. Those kids don't stand a chance.

 

[Skim]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdinaL You know, in principal - I like the idea of not allowing smoking in cars, just like I like the idea of having to have a handfree/headset to use your cell phone... But it really bothers me that people lack the common sense to make the correct decision about smoking around their kids. It also bothers me that the government seems to think that making another law is solving the problem. It isn't solving the problem. It is treating a symptom of the problem. The problem being the tobacco industry and the addiction it fosters(I smoked for years.) I had a discussion with DH about this need to protect us from ourselves....

I agree. Especially, "It isn't solving the problem. It is treating a symptom of the problem."

Do we really need to give police yet another reason to pull us over?

 

[rmzbm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chfriend Saying something is unhealthy or a bad idea is one thing. Educational campaigns and the like. But when you pass a law you give the police instruction to detain someone and at least cite them. Please remember the mother who was arrested and carried to jail for not buckling her children up in Texas. The US Supreme Court held that even if the punishment did not include jail ($50 fine there) it is permissible for a police officer to take her from her children, handcuff her, put in her in the back of a police car, drive her away from her children, fingerprint, photograph, and confine her. The risk of lung problems for children for smoking in confined spaces can be publicized. But using the power of the police/state to enforce it in a "private" zone is a very bad idea.

When I 1st opened this thread I thought this law was a GREAT idea...then I read this - chfriend is 100% right. Unfortunatly.

 

[charmander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragonfly There's no constitutional right to smoke all over your children. I'm all for it. The harmful effects are well-documented. A child's "right" to breathe fresh air trumps a parent's "right" to smoke wherever they want. This "slippery slope" fear really can be taken too far.

You're right. Poor choice of words on my part. While I have no constitutional right to smoke around my kids-even if I wanted to- there is nothing in the constitution that prohibits me from doing so.

And I like it that way.

 

[JamesMama]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tayndrewsmama They should just get rid of it completely. People who smoke around children are just ignorant a$$holes, IMO. Anyone I have ever talked to about that who disagrees thinks that it's their body and doesn't hurt anyone else. People choose to hear what they want in regards to second hand smoke. Instead of admitting that they can't or won't quit, they talk themselves into believing it doesn't hurt anyone else and what they do with their bodies is their business. Heck, my in-laws think that my mother-in-law got bronchitis *because* she was smoking outside in the winter, not because she was smoking. Now she smokes inside. Couldn't tell 'ya if that helps or not 'cause we haven't spoken to them in years, but obviously that's for more reasons than their smoking ideas. At any rate, cigarette smoke really ticks me off when I smell it. It makes me even more mad when some twit drives by in a mini-van loaded with kids and a cigarette in thier mouth. Those kids don't stand a chance.

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