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I have a SIL (married to Dh's brother) who I have a VERY strained relationship with. She doesn't get along with me and DH or my MIL & FIL. Everything we say/do in misconstrued.....With that said....DH and I FINALLY took the $ his mom and dad gave us for our honeymoon (we were married 7 yrs. ago) and put a deposit down on a cruise. We went all out and booked ourselves a suite with a huge balcony. We decided we wouldn't enjoy ourselves as much without the kids - so we're bringing along the 3 of them. We booked an adjoining cabin for our kids....AND we asked for my MIL & FIL to come along as well to watch the kids so that we can still get some alone time while on the cruise (they will be staying in their own cabin - but they requested one that can accomodate the kids as well so that they can have a few sleepovers).<br><br>
DH and his brother are the only children of my MIL & FIL - We're all afraid to tell SIL & BIL that we're going on a cruise and that MIL & FIL are going along too. We're afraid they will feel like this was a "family" vacation and that we're purposefully not including them. BUT - it really is as simple as we wanted some babysitters on board! :LOL I would have asked my mom but didn't for 2 reasons: 1) My IL's paid for the cruise - we felt kind of schmucky having THEM pay and then asking MY mom to come along and 2) My mom does not have to spare (she WOULD spend the $ if I asked - but she <i>shouldn't</i>, kwim?)<br><br>
SO......How do I tell her without hurting an already strained relationship? We've considered inviting them along - but then it REALLY would be a family vacation and not the "honeymoon" we were hoping for.
 

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None of you get along with them. So either don't tell them or tell them you invited your parents along to babysit and still plan to spend most of your time alone. I sure as heck wouldn't invite someone the four of you do not like.<br><br>
Lorrie
 

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It sounds like no matter how nicely you explain it to them, they'll probably misconstrue it and feel hurt.<br><br>
That said - if it's already a strained relationship, how much effort do you want to put into protecting their feelings? If it's not incredibly important to you that they like you, then don't sweat their reaction. Which is <i>their</i> reaction.<br><br>
Go have your fun! But while I'm posting, I should also ask...<br><br><br><br>
Why didn't invite you <b>me</b>?? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">
 

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"Dh and I are going on our honeymoon and the in laws are babysitting so we can enjoy ourselves."<br><br>
This is your honeymoon--it wouldn't BE a honeymoon if other adults came along for the sole purpose of hanging out with you! I would matter of factly say you are going on your honeymoon, and keep that the focus. Whether the grandparents are along to babysit isn't their business, right? Sure they will know, but the focus should be that this is your *honeymoon*. If they ask why the kids are going, I would say "We won't be able to relax leaving them on the continent and going out to sea. This way, we can check in if we are worried,but we don't have to spend our time parenting and can focus on each other".<br><br>
To me that is an IRON CLAD explanation and anyone who wanted to get on board for your honeymoon will sound ridiculous if they try to complain about you to anyone else "We couldn't go along on their honeymoon!". That sounds very silly and anyone else would think so too.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>heartmama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7943329"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">"Dh and I are going on our honeymoon and the in laws are babysitting so we can enjoy ourselves."<br><br>
This is your honeymoon--it wouldn't BE a honeymoon if other adults came along for the sole purpose of hanging out with you! I would matter of factly say you are going on your honeymoon, and keep that the focus. Whether the grandparents are along to babysit isn't their business, right? Sure they will know, but the focus should be that this is your *honeymoon*. If they ask why the kids are going, I would say "We won't be able to relax leaving them on the continent and going out to sea. This way, we can check in if we are worried,but we don't have to spend our time parenting and can focus on each other".<br><br>
To me that is an IRON CLAD explanation and anyone who wanted to get on board for your honeymoon will sound ridiculous if they try to complain about you to anyone else "We couldn't go along on their honeymoon!". That sounds very silly and anyone else would think so too.</div>
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Yep. I totally agree.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
You're right - it really wont mke a difference in our relationship...and I will stress the how it is our HONEYMOON - and I wont say anything until a few months prior...It just sucks to have someone in your family who you just can. not. get along with - no matter what....it sucks, espcially, because there are kids involved (we both have kids exactly the same age....)
 

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I would remind them that it's your honeymoon, not a family vacation. But you could suggest that you all plan a family vacation soon, so you can all go away together. Maybe she'll stop to think about the fact that she doesn't get along with any of you and wouldn't want to go anyway.<br><br>
Good luck!
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>zaftigmama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7944729"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I would remind them that it's your honeymoon, not a family vacation. But you could suggest that you all plan a family vacation soon, so you can all go away together. Maybe she'll stop to think about the fact that she doesn't get along with any of you and wouldn't want to go anyway.<br><br>
Good luck!</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> I like that. I agree with the pp. I feel ya..I have a sil like this...it sucks...
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mamachandi</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7944753"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> I like that. I agree with the pp. I feel ya..I have a sil like this...it sucks...</div>
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Do you?? What do you do? I am so torn - it is so hard. I really can't have her talking to me about how horrible we all are and how we are all so toxic to her. It is literally eating me up inside. Everytime we get to tlaking I end up feeling so concered for her that I don't want o cause HER any pain - meanwhile shes tossing out snide, hurtful comments all along the way. Yesterday - after she was telling me about hw her therapist is just floored/shocked with all of the bad things my MIL has "done" to her, I suggested that she ask MIL & FIL to go to therapy with her. Sh tol me that "Oh no, I wouldn't bring them. But I'ld bring you." I told her that I didn't think it would be right for me to talk on their behalf. She then said "Oh, I wouldn't have you tlak about them. It would be about the issues I have with you. But I don't really think you'ld like what I have to say." - ouch! The thing is, I've only known her 8 years maybe. The first 5 she lived in another state. And since then I see her 8-10 times a year, for a few hours each time. I guess I should feel flattered that I can screw a person up so badly in such a small amount of time!<br><br>
She's always dropping little crappy comments about my ILs - knowing that I don't agree with her. She has told me that she keeps a log of all the bad stuff we've done said over the course of our relationship - just so she knows she's not crazy and imagining it all up. Last time this all came to a head, she said I wasn't around/call enough (we live 1 hr away from each other) - so then I started making an effort to call her every few days just to chat. After about 2 weeks she told me that I didn't need to call so much - that we didn't need to be best friends. She was pissed that I didn't buy any cookie dough from her daughters fundraiser at school (we don't eat that stuff and I hate that schools make $ off of selling crappy/unhealthy food t okids) but then tells us that when we were trying to get our oldest DS to DC for a school trip (and our state allows a 100% tax credit for any donation you make) she told me flat out that they were refusing to help because they didn't want to give $ to some little rich kid. - again, ouch! She could have just said no! Plus - they make WAY more money than we do (which isn't even the point!) She got mad at my 3 yo dd for forgetting her brand new babie's name. Every year she wants to do something different at X-mas time. We have always gone over to the IL's house for dinner/tree/presents, etc. They no longer want to do that because they want to go to church. OK. They have asked us to go to church - we're not Catholic. Then they tell us all how we're excluding them from X-mas by going on with our plans without them. So this past year DH and I drove over to their house 2 days before X-mas - after work, during rush hour (took us nearly 2 hours) and then yesteday I found out that she was pissed because we didn't come with them to church. She continually talks about how screwed up my ILs have made thier two sons. One got his Doctorate in Pharmacy, the other one is a partner in a huge engineering firm. Neither ever got involved in drugs, drinking, trouble - both were Eagle Scouts - both respect their wives....ugh.......I could go on for soooo long. (wow - man - I'M going to need therapy now!! or I can just keep using MDC as my therapy!! - maybe thats why I'm always on here<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1">
 

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does she have borderline personality disorder? people who have this tend to blame others for their problems and moods. or as far as i have read. if she does have some kind of disorder, it might help you out to learn more about it and you might be able to learn some ways to talk to her without allowing the badtalking. also, if you understood her issue more you might not feel as hurt when she started going off about things....<br><br>
i mean, people should be nice, and i am sorry she makes you feel so bad and in such a tough position, and no one should use thier mental issues as an excuse to be mean to others...so i hope you understand what i mean. like, i dont think you would need to go so far as to EVER go to her therapist with her ( that sounds like she is being manipulative to you when she says that sort of thing to you) nor do i think if you were ever able to find out more about her psychology, should you then walk on eggshells around her or ever take abuse.<br><br>
just that sometimes if there is a disorder present, it can help family members to have an understanding of its effects. KWIM?
 

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Holy bananas! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">: Do you get combat pay for dealing with her?
 

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She keeps a log of all of the "bad things" that have been done to her??? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">:<br><br>
Wow!
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>heartmama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7943329"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">"Dh and I are going on our honeymoon and the in laws are babysitting so we can enjoy ourselves."<br><br>
This is your honeymoon--it wouldn't BE a honeymoon if other adults came along for the sole purpose of hanging out with you! I would matter of factly say you are going on your honeymoon, and keep that the focus. Whether the grandparents are along to babysit isn't their business, right? Sure they will know, but the focus should be that this is your *honeymoon*. If they ask why the kids are going, I would say "We won't be able to relax leaving them on the continent and going out to sea. This way, we can check in if we are worried,but we don't have to spend our time parenting and can focus on each other".<br><br>
To me that is an IRON CLAD explanation and anyone who wanted to get on board for your honeymoon will sound ridiculous if they try to complain about you to anyone else "We couldn't go along on their honeymoon!". That sounds very silly and anyone else would think so too.</div>
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Exactly. Pure genius <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">
 

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I deal with people like that by keeping things very very very matter of fact. Yes, they are family and you want to like them and be friends with them but if they are preventing that and attacking you, you need to protect youself and teach your children how to deal with toxic people.
 

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I feel sorry for her and there's no doubt this situation will only further the rift.<br><br>
I have to wonder if the ILs have in fact contributed to her bad feelings and you just haven't witnessed any of it. Relationships are complicated and so are inlaws. You might ask her to stop speaking negatively about the family though, since that is a source of stress for you (I would feel the same <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug"> ) Perhaps a letter reaching out but also saying it hurts you that she uses you as a sounding board for her issues with the family. You never know, it might be possible to salvage something with her. She probably feels like the outcast of the family right now.<br><br>
I hope you have a great trip and that you continue to reach out to her. You can never know what's really going on.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>dukeswalker</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7945636"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Do you?? What do you do? I am so torn - it is so hard<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1"></div>
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there is soo much crap I don't even have the energy to go into it but very similar with the snide comments etc..she has kids my kids age too and at times I have left family gatherings or not gone at all because of what she said the last time we were with her. I ahve chosen to go the high road and keep my distance from her and smile and nod mostly if I have to be near her. she has to feel my coldness towards her and I don't care. I will not argue with her in front of my kids she is just not worth it. So instead of coming right out and saying crap to me she makes jokes and snide,underhanded comments so that I am the only one who hears<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">: I don't care anymore...I ignore her...<br>
she right now is asking if my dd (who is4) can have a sleep over with her daughetr...uh yea..right...
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>dukeswalker</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7945636"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I really can't have her talking to me about how horrible we all are and how we are all so toxic to her. It is literally eating me up inside.</div>
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Then don't. End the conversation, and walk away. She's sounds a lot like my sister, who I see as little as possible and no longer speak to on the phone.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">She has told me that she keeps a log of all the bad stuff we've done said over the course of our relationship - just so she knows she's not crazy and imagining it all up.</td>
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YES! She is my sister!!!! Seriously, does she have a little sister named Linda? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Last time this all came to a head, she said I wasn't around/call enough (we live 1 hr away from each other) - so then I started making an effort to call her every few days just to chat. After about 2 weeks she told me that I didn't need to call so much - that we didn't need to be best friends.</td>
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This is the thing, it really doesn't matter what you do she will be hurt and angry because she is fundamentally hurt and angry and just walks around life looking for specific things to focus that hurt and anger on. It isn't about you, or your in-laws, or anybody else. It is nastly little prison she has built in her own head, that only she can release herself from, but rather than leaving, she wants everyone else to join her in miserable jail.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Every year she wants to do something different at X-mas time. We have always gone over to the IL's house for dinner/tree/presents, etc. They no longer want to do that because they want to go to church. OK. They have asked us to go to church - we're not Catholic. Then they tell us all how we're excluding them from X-mas by going on with our plans without them.</td>
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Right -- everything has to be her way, and if it isn't, she is hurt and angry, and oh the way, her way keeps changing so that no matter what you do, you will fail, thereby insuring that she will continue to be hurt and angry.<br><br>
Have a GREAT cruise! Enjoy your Dh, your babies, and your in-laws!
 

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I don't mean to be a b*tch, but seriously, just tell her that you're going, the in-laws are coming to babysit for you. Then get "busy" and end the conversation.<br><br>
I mean this in the nicest possible way (and I'm serious about that), but you're just as insane as she is.<br><br>
You keep trying and trying to fix the relationship. HELLO. You can't fix it, because she's the one who has to fix herself. NO ONE will ever love her enough until she loves herself. And she doesn't.<br><br>
I'm sorry to narrow it down to black and white, but these are facts: There is nothing you can do or say. A person who wants to find something to whine and hate you for, WILL FIND IT.<br><br>
8 years now, and you still haven't figured out that it has absolutely NOTHING to do with you?<br><br>
Take her on the cruise, and she'll be pissed because you wanted 5 minutes of alone time. Don't take her on the cruise and she'll be pissed because you didn't take her.<br><br>
Stop trying to do the impossible... that's insane!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Ohhhh - I cannot tell you how helpful it is to hear from you all. I know - and agree with what you are all saying. Everthing you have said has hit the nail right on the head. I do think that there is some sort of disorder going on - there have been so many things that have just really NOT happened. It does always be about her - and she does continually change her requirements - so that no matter what. We are always screwing up. I also think, that she does feel the outcast at this point. And that feeling is now affecting our every move with her, my BIL and the kids. We DO walk on eggshells with her - which I'm sure makes her feel even worse. She has threatened more than once to sever all ties with my ILs - and it feels like we've all been held emotionally hostage - for fear of making her any more mad and really having her cut us all out of the kids lives.<br><br>
I know I shouldn't let this bother me so much - but I really do feel for her. I wish I could "fix" the whole thing - I've even asked her point blank, "What can we do to fix this?" I never do get an answer. I think what it comes down to - is that who we <i>are</i> is what hurts her the most. And I just don't know how to change that - nor do I want to. I think I'm pretty ok....<br><br>
Thanks a ton for the supportive words. I think I'm going to hold off on saying anything about our honeymoon for awhile - no need to have more tension in the family for a loger period of time. The ucky thing is- is that we're leaving 6 days after X-mas - so an already stressful time we be made more so...
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Amris</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7947203"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I don't mean to be a b*tch, but seriously, just tell her that you're going, the in-laws are coming to babysit for you. Then get "busy" and end the conversation.<br><br>
I mean this in the nicest possible way (and I'm serious about that), but you're just as insane as she is.<br><br>
You keep trying and trying to fix the relationship. HELLO. You can't fix it, because she's the one who has to fix herself. NO ONE will ever love her enough until she loves herself. And she doesn't.<br><br>
I'm sorry to narrow it down to black and white, but these are facts: There is nothing you can do or say. A person who wants to find something to whine and hate you for, WILL FIND IT.<br><br>
8 years now, and you still haven't figured out that it has absolutely NOTHING to do with you?<br><br>
Take her on the cruise, and she'll be pissed because you wanted 5 minutes of alone time. Don't take her on the cruise and she'll be pissed because you didn't take her.<br><br>
Stop trying to do the impossible... that's insane!</div>
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Thank you - seriously - thank you. I always try to see someone else's point of view - thinking that there must be soem truth to it some where....but you're 100% right - I need to stop trying to fix it, today.
 
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