[Ruthla]

I was in a chatroom yesterday and somehow the conversation turned to vaccines. One woman was telling me that she knows people who had chicken pox as a child and then got it again in adulthood, yet the children who got the vaccine were protected. Apparently the vaccine has mutated so the natural immunity from childhood is useless and only the vaccine can confer immunity now. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">: She gave me several anecdotes to support this theory.<br><br>
I don't doubt that this particular woman beleived what she said, but I <b>AM</b> doubting the validity of her sources. It all sounds like complete pHARMa company propaganda to me. Anybody have any more info on this?

 

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Actually half of what she said is right.<br><br>
Repeated episodes of chickenpox has always been more common than they admitted. That has been admitted in the literature, though you have to wonder why.<br><br>
The bit that is wrong, is that children who are vaccinated are protected.<br><br>
They too come down with chickenpox, and sometimes shingles. And shingles can also be had repeatedly.

 

[Plummeting]

The virus hasn't mutated. And if it had, the vaccine wouldn't work, because the vaccine is based on the virus that was circulating 20 years ago. Duh, lady! (To her, not to you, Ruthla. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> ) If chickenpox was a rapidly mutating virus, they'd have to create a new vaccine every time it mutated. That is the stupidest thing I've heard in a long time. How anyone can believe that is beyond me. I'm sure she's not a stupid woman, but there is no excuse for not thinking that through.

 

[~member~]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Plummeting</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">The virus hasn't mutated.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
It has and it does.<br><a href="http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol8no12/02-0118.htm" target="_blank">http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol8no12/02-0118.htm</a><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">In 1998, a varicella-zoster virus glycoprotein E (gE) mutant virus (VZV-MSP) was isolated from a child with chickenpox.</td>
</tr></table></div>
That is how they work. The influenza virus mutates every year. Some mutate faster than others. Just another reason to put an end to vaccinations, as they cause scarier mutations to occur with no back-up plan of action.

 

[marilynmama]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>MamaInTheBoonies</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">It has and it does.<br><a href="http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol8no12/02-0118.htm" target="_blank">http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol8no12/02-0118.htm</a><br><br><br>
That is how they work. The influenza virus mutates every year. Some mutate faster than others. Just another reason to put an end to vaccinations, as they cause scarier mutations to occur with no back-up plan of action.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
opps! I went back to edit part of this and I accidentally deleted it all!!! argggg

 

[Plummeting]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>MamaInTheBoonies</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">It has and it does.<br><a href="http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol8no12/02-0118.htm" target="_blank">http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol8no12/02-0118.htm</a><br><br><br>
That is how they work. The influenza virus mutates every year. Some mutate faster than others. Just another reason to put an end to vaccinations, as they cause scarier mutations to occur with no back-up plan of action.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
This virus has not mutated because of the vaccine. I know how the influenza virus works, but it's not related at all to the varicella virus. Chickenpox is one of the most stable (non-mutating) viruses on the planet. There are probably always going to be slightly different variants of every virus, but that doesn't mean this virus has greatly mutated in recent years, that mutations are becoming more common, or that they have been caused by vaccination. I don't think vaccinating is a good idea, but the idea this woman put forth is beyond silly. It's not even worth considering. The reason people are still getting chickenpox is that the vaccine sucks. You don't need a mutating virus to wind up with an ineffective vaccine.<br><br>
This study discusses different genotypes of varicella. They've always existed. This is nothing new, and because they are all so similar, infection with one gave immunity to all.<br><br><a href="http://jvi.asm.org/cgi/content/full/78/15/8349" target="_blank">http://jvi.asm.org/cgi/content/full/78/15/8349</a>

 

[~member~]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>marilynmama</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">We have to show immunity for varicella (titers) in order to go to the hospital for clinicals. <b>Her titers came back absolutely negative!</b> She ended up having to get the stupid shot (2 shots, one month apart for an adult)! Isn't that weird?? I thought so. I always thought if you get cp you HAD lifetime immunity but that just isn't true for some people I think.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Titers only measure antibodies, they don't measure actual immunity, as immunity is found in the memory cells.<br><br>
For some people, it isn't that they don't have immunity, it is that their memory cells don't work well and 'forget' or don't 'remember' the first time.<br><br><a href="http://www.accessexcellence.org/AE/AEC/CC/memory_cells.html" target="_blank">http://www.accessexcellence.org/AE/A...ory_cells.html</a><br><br><a href="http://www.mansfield.ohio-state.edu/~sabedon/black17.htm" target="_blank">http://www.mansfield.ohio-state.edu/...on/black17.htm</a>

 

[~member~]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Plummeting</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">The reason people are still getting chickenpox is that the vaccine sucks. You don't need a mutating virus to wind up with an ineffective vaccine.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"> ITA. But I also was providing information that shows that CP has mutated, which might explain why some ppl get it twice.

 

[marilynmama]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>MamaInTheBoonies</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Titers only measure antibodies, they don't measure actual immunity, as immunity is found in the memory cells.<br><br>
For some people, it isn't that they don't have immunity, it is that their memory cells don't work well and 'forget' or don't 'remember' the first time.<br><br><a href="http://www.accessexcellence.org/AE/AEC/CC/memory_cells.html" target="_blank">http://www.accessexcellence.org/AE/A...ory_cells.html</a><br><br><a href="http://www.mansfield.ohio-state.edu/~sabedon/black17.htm" target="_blank">http://www.mansfield.ohio-state.edu/...on/black17.htm</a></div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
I understand. But you would think that after having cp TWICE her titers would show something at this point, but apparently not. But I guess it just shows how everyones immune system is so different. Thanks for the links!

 

[~member~]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>marilynmama</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I understand. But you would think that after having cp TWICE her titers would show something at this point, but apparently not. But I guess it just shows how everyones immune system is so different. Thanks for the links!</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
NP <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"><br>
FWIW- I thought I had CP, when in fact it was German Measles(Rubella). My titers still showed as inconclusive and they tried to vax me. I refused, even when they lied and said it would kill my baby.<br>
I asked them, if my baby is the one at risk, then why are you wanting to inject ME? Especially when the package insert says Rubella is the one that sheds?!?!<br><br>
That shut them up real quick. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">

 

[Plummeting]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>MamaInTheBoonies</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"> ITA. But I also was providing information that shows that CP has mutated, which might explain why some ppl get it twice.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
I understand, but that's not what the article shows. They believe that this variant has been circulating for over 50 years, since they found it in a man who had shingles. He had chickenpox about 50 years prior, and since shingles is a reactivation of the chickenpox virus, the most likely explanation is that it is the same virus he had as a child. That would mean it wasn't a new mutation, since it was 50 years old. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/shy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="innocent"><br><br>
Maybe I'm completely misunderstanding varicella, but I don't think so. At any rate, the theory that Ruthla's acquaintance put forth is still completely absurd. Again, if the virus had mutated, they would have to stop using Varivax, and develop a new vax for the mutated virus. Her acquaintance is claiming the vax works better than natural immunity, since the virus has mutated, but the vax is based on the wild cp that was circulating over a decade ago. It makes zero sense. If this woman had even the slightest knowledge about the vaccine, she wouldn't say something so completely uninformed.

 

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

According to people who work with the chickenpox virus, the reason its their favourite, is that it is SO genetically stable, and is "pretty". <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="rolleyes"><br><br>
They say that in terms of interest, rubella puts them to sleep.<br><br>
apparently some men like looking at more than cars, boys toys and women's legs.