[RubyV]

Quite often, I hear the pro life argument that if you don't want a pregnancy, then abstain. How does this work within a marriage? Do you not marry at all? Not engage in sexual activity?<br><br>
For those who feel bc is wrong, what should people who must avoid pregnancy do? FAM isn't always possible.<br><br>
I"m truly interested in your replies.<br><br>
Yes, I"m pro choice. No, my mind is not changing.<br><br>
I just wish to understand this position better.<br><br>
Thank you.

 

[Monica]

My dh and I have been using Natural Family Planning for 8 years of marriage and yes we abstain when I am fertile so as to avoid an undesired pregnancy. We have 2 children that were concieved when we were ready for them. So it has worked for us for approx 60 cycles (the other 20 I have been preg and lactating) For us it is about respecting our bodies. Makes no sense to us to eat organically, avoid unecessary medications, avoid exposure to chemicals and other pollutants and then turn around and take a hormone pill every day. The other side of the respect issue for us is respecting my gift of fertility. By abstaining during my fertile days, my dh is saying, "I respect your awesome powers of fertility and reproduction - we do not have use birth control so that I can pleasure myself at will - I have enough self control to abstain for 7 to 9 days" Hope that gives you some insight and some things to think about.<br><br>
I don't think you have to be pro-life to use natural methods and have a healthy respect for your fertility. I believe there a lot of women here that use Fertility awareness and are pro-choice.

 

[AnnMarie]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>RubyV</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Quite often, I hear the pro life argument that if you don't want a pregnancy, then abstain. How does this work within a marriage? Do you not marry at all? Not engage in sexual activity?<br></div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
For my marriage it meant vasectomy. If you don't want a baby you should do the most you can to prevent it IMO. Yes, I think you should abstain if you don't want another baby and don't want to use birth control.

 

[RubyV]

Oh, I used FAM sucessfully for years. I was interested in situations where fam isn't pratical or possible. For example, I cannot use fam now because it is pretty much impossible to temp (my dd nurses alot at night, I never get 4 hours straight sleep, menstruation hasn't returened). Would the pro life take be for my husband and I to stop having sex altogether until it's possible to use fam successfully? In that case, it may be a year or more. KWIM?<br><br>
How does the pro life view of this work successfully in this context, particularly for those who o believe bc is immoral.<br><br>
Should those who want to be child free not marry at all? What about those whose health requires avoiding pregnancy at all costs.<br><br>
Thank you.<br><br>
AnnMarie, does that mean that married couple should abstain altogether?

 

[AllyRae]

I also practice NFP....just abstain during fertile times. It's all about self-control and being aware that actions have consequences.

 

[AnnMarie]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>RubyV</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">AnnMarie, does that mean that married couple should abstain altogether?</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
No, and I just added to my post. I mean if someone doesn't want to use birth control but they don't want children either then they should abstain or be willing to care for a child should they get pregnant. No birth control is 100%, I realize that. If an adult knows this and still has sex then I think they should still be willing to take care of the child should they become pregnant, or give the baby up for adoption.

 

[DebraBaker]

If you seriously cannot imagine being pregnant you should either abstain or get sterilized(sp?)<br><br>
Extreme, yes, I guess most married people aren't that opposed to children.<br><br>
Um....I've never had any form of contraception fail <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/love.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="love"><br><br>
DB

 

[phathui5]

Condoms. I'm pro-life and I don't have anything against barrier methods of BC. Condoms, female condom, cervical cap, diaphragm. I'm currently using LAM (lactational...) and haven't had my period since I had dd. Not that it works for everyone. With ds, I got my period back much sooner and had to keep track of my cycles and fertility stuff.

 

[nomadic_foolz]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>phathui5</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Condoms. I'm pro-life and I don't have anything against barrier methods of BC. Condoms, female condom, cervical cap, diaphragm.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
I agree. DH and I have been married for 7 yrs. Since we married (well actually eloped) so young (20) we did not feel ready to have children. We started out using pills <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/FIREdevil.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="devil"> After two years we started using condoms. I've only recently learned of NFP and have just been too chicken & lazy to try it.

 

[Natsuki]

I'm not anti-birth control. I am pro-life. I realize that any one method of birth control will not work for everyone. I believe that anyone having sex should realize that there is no 100% method and should have thought through what they would do if they get pregnant--includes both unmarried and married people.<br><br>
I would see the options as either keep the baby or give it up for adoption--this would have been my two options if i had (or do) get pregnant at a time when i wasn't ready for a baby.

 

[Aura_Kitten]

the OP brought up some really good questions.<br><br>
and fwiw ~<br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I've never had any form of contraception fail</td>
</tr></table></div>
every single one of my six siblings, and myself, were ALL contraception babies. the last two of us were double-contraception babies (my parents used 2 forms of birth control).<br><br>
almost every other teen mom i've met (and i've met a ton, because i used to counsel them) got pregnant while using some form of birth control.<br><br>
so... congratulations on never getting pregnant while using contraception, but for a lot of people, it doesn't work out that well.

 

[Viola]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>klothos</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">every single one of my six siblings, and myself, were ALL contraception babies. the last two of us were double-contraception babies (my parents used 2 forms of birth control).</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
What kind of contraception were they using? Was it a condom that broke or spilled, or did it just plain not work? I don't suppose you'd know, but I'm curious for my own sake since that is all we are using. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> I have known people who say that they have gotten pregnant while on the pill and using condoms at the same time. I can understand how the pill can fail because it has to change the chemistry in your body and I can see it not working for everyone.<br><br>
My niece got pregnant on the pill after her seizure medication was changed and she wasn't told it would diminish the effectiveness of her contraception method. My other sister got pregnant while on the pill, but she admits that she didn't take it regularly and then later admitted she got pregnant on purpose. I have another friend who got pregnant while on the pill, and she said it was because she ran out while she was on vacation, but that really confused me. If you run out and miss a dose or two, then you have to start all over again and use a barrier method for awhile until after your next period or something. So I've always wanted to ask her if she did that because I really want to know just how ineffective these things are, ya know? But I didn't want to upset her by seeming like I was questioning her, so I just left it alone. She has clearly stressed the accidental nature of her pregnancy, but I know she wanted to have a child and there is no shame in wanting and having a baby.<br><br>
I know two other women online who both got pregnant on condoms while waiting for their husband to get vasectomies, and they were clearly not happy about it at first, so I know they really were expecting the condoms to work. The one woman said her OB was teasing her saying, "You know those aren't effective in preventing pregnancy." I'm really confused about it because that is all we use (OK, well, abstaining for long periods also). My husband has clearly stated that he doesn't want another baby, but he is just as adamant about not having a vasectomy. I wouldn't mind another baby, I don't think, although I'm happy with two. I like to hold onto the idea that I might get accidentally pregnant, but I really don't see how.<br><br>
I guess we are just not that fertile. I've had no trouble getting pregnant as soon as we stopped using condoms, but even misusing them during my fertile time has not resulted in pregnancy. We misuse them by having insertion without a condom and putting it on towards the end, which we clearly realized could result in pregnancy, but we were prepared to accept that.<br><br>
Now we abstain, or just about, so I won't be having another baby unless that changes.

 

[~*~MamaJava~*~]

<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> I too am a "condom baby", my parents were married but just not planning on me...they're not quite sure what happened...<br>
this is an issue i struggle with greatly as a pro-lifer...i can't in good conscience use the bcp, personally, but barrier methods are not that fantastic (we're highly fertile <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1"> ). when I think about it, I think God gives us babies when He wishes to, but it's hard to just let that happen, esp when you're fairly sure He'll end up giving us one every year...kids are blessings, of course. most people i know do use methods of bc other than natural family planning. we are still figuring this all out.<br>
i DO think you shouldn't be doin' it unless you're ok with having a baby. because they do tend to show up. if you're not ok with having a baby, don't do it. and almost, don't get married. for real, that is one of the main purposes of marriage, IMO: to have children, at least at some time, {that is if you are physically able}.<br>
i'll keep reading this thread to see if i can gain some wisdom...

 

[Missinnyc]

I'm a little confused... "pro-life" does not necessarily mean "anti-birth control." I am firmly pro-life, but I use BC and I am fine with it. I morally object to the pill and other hormonal methods (and possibly the IUD, since they don't know whether it prevents implantation or fertilization) which prevent implantation, but I have no problem with barrier methods.

 

[Aura_Kitten]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">What kind of contraception were they using?</td>
</tr></table></div>
my mom tried everything that was available to her at the time -- IUD, diaphragm, diaphragm + spermicide, condoms + birth control pills, condoms + fertility awareness... at one point the dr's told her she'd never be able to get pregnant again, and was on birth control pills still at the time (i think)... and that's when my brother came along.<br><br>
i think that's when she and my dad got super-careful... not that it did them any good. two kids later, here i am. :LOL

 

[RubyV]

While the questio nwas directed to anyone, I was especially interested in the opinions of those who feel bc ( with the exectpion of NFP) is immoral.<br><br>
I'll try to respond to what I've read here tomorrow.

 

[Aura_Kitten]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I was especially interested in the opinions of those who feel bc ( with the exectpion of NFP) is immoral.</td>
</tr></table></div>
i can't answer personally, but i feel led to comment about something one of my sisters did... she went through a very Catholic phase in her life (she's past it now -- she tends to try on lifestyles one-after-the-other... but anyway...) and decided that birth control was definitely immoral -- INCLUDING natural family planning -- because it was an interference into God's Divine Will.<br><br>
she ended up with 2 of her 4 kids being unplanned and unwanted, and now is dealing with serious depression because she "never wanted to be a stay at home mom!" (she was in tears over this just before she had her 4th.)<br><br>
i'm not saying any other person who believes b/c to be immoral would do anything like this... but... just something to think about.<br><br>
i very much oppose those who say that abortion should be illegal... then push for abstinence-only education. that's not going to help anything. people need to be educated, and they need access to counseling, support, and services which allow them to keep control of their fertility.

 

[nomadic_foolz]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>klothos</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">i very much oppose those who say that abortion should be illegal...</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Why is the idea of making abortion illeagal so out of the question? We have laws protecting our freedoms. Why should the unborn left with no protection? In '93 Poland made abortion illeagal and yet none of the dire predictions came true. In fact, not only did abortion rate dropped to 1214 from 180,000, but maternal deaths declined by 30% and miscarrages by 18,000 and infant deaths by over 40%. (These figure were complied by 3 seperate federal agencies)<br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>klothos</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">then push for abstinence-only education. that's not going to help anything. people need to be educated, and they need access to counseling, support, and services which allow them to keep control of their fertility.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Your right! People do need to be educated. And educated with the <b>truth</b> not some extreme propaganda that is funded and organized by the very people making <b>millions</b> in profit from abortion.<br>
IMO when you put aside the morality of abortion and look at the physical and mental destruction it has left on women and society in general, it's not worth the cost.

 

[BeeandOwlsMum]

First off - A reminder to keep this thread civil and respectful. No name calling, inflammatory comments etc.<br><br>
Secondly - I am moving this to Fertility, as it is not Activism. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">

 

[Heart.Revolution]

have you ever wondered why most doctors dont teach women about Fertility Awarness Method? its because there is no money to be made. they are suppose to get everyone on some kind of medication.<br><br>
If the USA educated everyone properly about pregancy, there would be no need for abortion. The fact is that most women who have abortions do it out of selfishness, and that is sad. When i was 13 i got pulled into a tent at the local fair that was going on. they showed me a film of an abortion. From that point on I knew that i would never do that if i was to become pregant.<br><br>
If you are going to be sexualy active, then you need to prepare yourself. you just dont run off into battle with out armor? it IS very important to empower with the proper education about fertility. I remember in junior high kids having sex. They dont know anything, and my parents sure did not help me out. I did not learn about FAM until i was 24.<br><br>
whats a solution? start at home. educate your children about pregancy, and responsibility for their actions. lets not leave it up to racist groups like planned parenthood to tell the youth what sexual responsibility is.