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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a friend who recently had a son and circed him. I didn't really want to hear about it but she talked about it in front of me and was talking about how he had no pain at all. She told me before that her DH would go and watch but the he ended up not going because "he was fine". GRRRRR<br><br>
Anyway, back to the no pain. She said the nurse came in about an hour before and put a topical on him and then put more on right before they took him. He came back happy but I forget how much later. So my question is, is the topical anesthetic really as innefective as they say? Do you think he felt much pain? And what about after? He had one of those bell rings on so that the pee wouldn't burn him. So there was literally no pain.... Does the glans burn when pee gets on it?<br><br>
Thanks!
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>JamieB</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11555980"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">She said the nurse came in about an hour before and put a topical on him and then put more on right before they took him. He came back happy but I forget how much later. So my question is, is the topical anesthetic really as innefective as they say? Do you think he felt much pain? And what about after? He had one of those bell rings on so that the pee wouldn't burn him. So there was literally no pain.... Does the glans burn when pee gets on it?<br></div>
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Although EMLA cream can slightly reduce the pain of circumcision, it is considered inadequate for circ pain relief when used alone because there are so many layers of tissue it would have to go through to number everything that is going to be torn, crushed, or cut during a circumcision (outer layer of foreskin, inner layer of foreskin, and the surface of the glans itself). The numbing effect of EMLA cream cannot penetrate deep enough to numb the deeper layers.<br><br>
The plastibell ring does not in any way have the effect of protecting against the pee burning. The glans of the penis is raw with this method just like the GOmco, from having the foreskin ripped apart from the surgace of the glans. Part of the glans still is exposed through the hole in the ring, so that can still rub on the diaper and sting from urination. And urine (and even poop) can leak underneath the ring onto the glans underneath. Not to mention that the foreskin is constricted with a very tight string against the flange around the edge of the ring. If you ever tied a string tight on your finger and left it there, that can give you an idea that this is not painful, as the remnant of tissue is deprived of blood and dies.<br><br>
First, I heard circumcision with a Plastibell does not involve any cutting, not it's that the Plastibell does not cause any pain. Delusions must be very comforting to parents subjecting their child to a violent, unnecessary, and unethical amputation on their child's genitals. Who said humans are rational? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"><br><br>
The most recent review of circumcision pain relief methods is:<br><a href="http://www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab004217.html" target="_blank">http://www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab004217.html</a><br><br>
The summary states, WRT EMLA:<br><br>
Circumcision is a painful procedure frequently performed on newborn baby boys without using pain relief. Available treatments include dorsal penile nerve block (DPNB), which involves injecting anesthetic at the base of the penis. Ring block is another form of penile block. Locally applied anesthetic creams include EMLA, a water-based cream including lidocaine and prilocaine. Based on 35 clinical trials involving 1,997 newborns, it can be concluded that <b>DPNB and EMLA do not eliminate circumcision pain, but are both more effective than placebo or no treatment in diminishing it. Compared head to head, DPNB is substantially more effective than EMLA cream. Ring block and lidocaine creams other than EMLA also reduced pain but did not eliminate it.</b> Trials of oral acetaminophen, sugar solutions, pacifiers, music, and other environmental modifications to reduce circumcision pain did not prove them effective. DPNB can cause minor bruising, bleeding, or swelling at the injection site. EMLA and other lidocaine creams can cause skin color changes or local skin irritation. There is a rare risk with lidocaine creams of causing methaemoglobinaemia (blue-baby syndrome, where the baby's blood lacks sufficient oxygen). However, two trials of EMLA for circumcision pain relief measured methaemoglobin levels and found them normal. The circumcision procedure itself, especially without pain relief, can cause short term effects such as choking, gagging, and vomiting. Long term effects of circumcision without pain relief are not well understood. Strict comparability between trials was rare. Trials used a variety of indicators to measure baby's pain. Crying time, facial expression, and sweating palms can indicate infant pain, as can increased heart rate, breathing rate, and blood pressure. Levels of chemical indicators that can be part of a pain or stress response and are present in the blood or saliva are another gauge of pain levels. Also, procedures were not generally performed in just the same way in different trials. Type of clamp used (8sing a Mogen clamp can shorten the duration of the procedure), length of wait time after injection or application of anesthetic and procedure techniques varied.<br><br><br>
Gillian
 

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I addition to what Gillian said, it should be noted that even if you could eliminate the pain of circumcision, it doesn't change the ethics of the procedure.
 

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EMLA is actually contraindicated for use during circ Emla Warning: <a href="http://www.cirp.org/library/complications/EMLA/" target="_blank">http://www.cirp.org/library/complications/EMLA/</a> I dont know why they are still using it since it is obviously not what it was intended for. But then they use safty pens on circs as well sometimes so I guess they just dont care.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>glongley</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11556121"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">First, I heard circumcision with a Plastibell does not involve any cutting, not it's that the Plastibell does not cause any pain.</div>
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I don't know if you're saying that the Plastibell doesn't involve cutting or that it's just what you've heard people say, but I just wanted to clarify that the Plastibell DOES involve cutting. ALL circumcision has cutting. After the ligament is tied around the Plastibell, the foreskin is cut off except for the tiny remnant tied to the bell, which rots and falls off.
 

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Shock and happy look extremly similar in a NB.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>glongley</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11556121"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">There is a rare risk with lidocaine creams of causing methaemoglobinaemia (blue-baby syndrome, where the baby's blood lacks sufficient oxygen). Gillian</div>
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I seriously cannot believe what i'm reading right now! This same friend had to bring her baby to the ER when he was a week and a half old because he blue blue and couldn't get his colour back. Wow wow wow. I wonder, could that fit in the time frame?<br><br>
Thank you so much for answering my question. It was pretty much what I expected but not what I wanted to hear<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>eepster</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11556869"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Shock and happy look extremly similar in a NB.</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/nod.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="nod">
 
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