[bec28]

So, this past week I decided that I wanted to try raw feeding with our 2 year old black lab. I'm so sick off all the dog hair everywhere, I was hoping that raw food might help with that.

I do have a couple of questions though. First of all, my dog doesn't understand what it means to chew her food. She's always been that way. She just inhales her food. We've been giving her chicken leg quarters (thigh in the morning and leg at night) this first week, and the first time, she almost ate the leg in just about two bites. So since, then, we've been holding it for her, not letting her swallow it unless she's chewed it. I'm so sick of this already! Yuck! Slimy cold chicken is not what I want to be holding so early in the morning. Can we teach her how to chew, on her own? without us holding anything for her?

My second question is about how you all keep the cost down. I've read so many people saying that feeding raw was cheaper then buying dog food. But we'd buy a bag of dog food for $35-40 and it'd last us at least 2 months if not a little longer. That's about $.65 cents a day. If we feed her 2% of her body weight a day, that's about 1 lb. And we got chicken leg quarters, 10 lb for $9. The cheapest cuts of meat (chicken backs) I can find at the grocery store is $.79/lb. Am I not looking for the right things? or maybe I shouldn't be shopping at the grocery store?

any tips you guys can give would be so appreciated! I really want this to work.

 

[Ola_]

Prices are different here in Canada, but a general tip that seems to transfer to other locations is to look for ethnic grocery stores. Also, Google for raw-feeding co-ops and if there is one in your area it would help costs (though you would need to have the freezer space to store it).

Has she choked on her food? If not, it's likely that she is chewing it enough. You have to keep in mind that dogs don't chew like we do - for them it's enough to crunch it enough so that it fits down the hatch and the super-strong stomach acids do the rest. Definitely stop holding her food - that can make some dogs feel like you are going to take it away so they end up gulping it down even faster!

Also, the food you are feeding is too small - I would suggest a thigh or drumstick for a toy breed dog, not a lab. How much does she weigh? My 35 lb dog would get a chicken leg quarter a day, so if she is bigger you may be under feeding her. Also, are there any medical issues that require her to be fed twice a day? We went to twice a day when we switched to raw and it allows us to feed much bigger food - better for the dental benefits, needs more chewing, and more mental stimulation too. For us evening feeding is easier than morning so that's the time we chose, but it depends on your household routine.

 

[angie7]

Weight bearing bones are not a good source for a dog to eat on a regular basis. They are very tough and can be hard to chew and not to mention harder to digest. They make good occasional food or snacks. Backs are your best bet. Also, don't look at grocery stores for your meat, you are going to pay much more then from a butcher shop. Do you have any meat processing plants in your area? That is where I use to get my food from and it was about $.59/lb. If you don't have one, check out your local butcher shops. Sometimes if you buy in bulk they will cut you a deal. But you will have to package it yourself. We use to do 350 lbs a month and would package it in 1lb ziploc bags. It took a few hours a month but was worth it.

Also, I wouldn't hold the food for your dog. She will learn that she has to chew or it will hurt her tummy. One of my past Great Dane's swallowed things whole. After a few whole chicken backs going down, he learned to chew.

I would continue to feed twice a day with a lab. With their activity level and the fact that they are prone to bloat, it's the safest bet.

 

[Ola_]

Quote:

Originally Posted by angie7 Weight bearing bones are not a good source for a dog to eat on a regular basis. They are very tough and can be hard to chew and not to mention harder to digest. They make good occasional food or snacks. Backs are your best bet.

I disagree - when the dangers of weight bearing bones are discussed it typically refers to those of large animals (cows and deer) that carry a lot of weight and also are slaughtered later in life (which gives more time for the bones to become dense). A chicken drumstick (say 5 lbs) is nothing like a beef femur (around 1000 lbs).

Also, I would caution that backs have almost no meat and need to be given with lots of boneless meat to avoid constipation.

 

[angie7]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ola_ I disagree - when the dangers of weight bearing bones are discussed it typically refers to those of large animals (cows and deer) that carry a lot of weight and also are slaughtered later in life (which gives more time for the bones to become dense). A chicken drumstick (say 5 lbs) is nothing like a beef femur (around 1000 lbs). Also, I would caution that backs have almost no meat and need to be given with lots of boneless meat to avoid constipation.

True, a cow leg is different from a chicken leg. We only feed them on occasion and not part of their daily diet. We feed ground in the morning and whole backs in the evening.

 

[oneKnight]

Quote:

Originally Posted by angie7 Weight bearing bones are not a good source for a dog to eat on a regular basis. They are very tough and can be hard to chew and not to mention harder to digest.

Chicken weight bearing bones are totally different than cows weight bearing bones. Heck Dusti was practically raised on chicken thighs! The chicken bones crunch right up, just fine.
She can't eat pork or beef weight bearing bones, and has a hard time with bigger beef ribs.

And I don't know where you are getting 5lb chicken drumsticks!! Two Tyson thighs weighs 1lb almost exactly, I haven't weighed a whole 1/4 in a while but 5lbs would just be woah.

Quote:

We feed ground in the morning and whole backs in the evening.

If you are feeding a big dog chicken backs as their main "raw meaty bone" then you are way missing out on the variety and fun that the dog can have eating different cuts.

Pork ribs are usually cheap and the bones are pretty soft, several stuck together make a pretty good challenge for a dog.

Ground what?? If you are only feeding chicken your dog can get deficient in several things, I remember magnesium was one of them. You need to feed a variety. Also you didn't mention organs, what are you doing for organ meat? (this is the hardest part of raw for me)

Quote:

I would continue to feed twice a day with a lab. With their activity level and the fact that they are prone to bloat, it's the safest bet.

I personally would start out feeding twice a day, and then once your dog has adjusted somewhat - then change to once a day.
I was skeptical about it, we fed 2 meals a day for a long time, but I recently switched Dusti to once a day meals, and it really is better somehow.
Something about stretching the stomach out more = more enzymes and better digestion. Lots of dogs just seem happier and less hungry when eating one big meal per day. Dusti is at least 1/4 Lab and definitely in the large dog category, yet she does fine on one meal per day. This is really up to you, but since you (the OP) don't seem to enjoy feeding raw then doing it just once a day might make you happier.

 

[angie7]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneKnight If you are feeding a big dog chicken backs as their main "raw meaty bone" then you are way missing out on the variety and fun that the dog can have eating different cuts. Pork ribs are usually cheap and the bones are pretty soft, several stuck together make a pretty good challenge for a dog. Ground what?? If you are only feeding chicken your dog can get deficient in several things, I remember magnesium was one of them. You need to feed a variety. Also you didn't mention organs, what are you doing for organ meat? (this is the hardest part of raw for me)

We just started raw again less then a week ago. I fed it for over 5 years, then stopped for 3 years after my twins were born and started back up. Right now we are in transition phase. My Great Dane has bloated twice in the last year so we are playing it safe with her. Right now it is just chicken and next week we plan to start adding more meat and organs into the diet.

 

[mistymama]

I'm fairly new to raw feeding - but a total convert! Our puppy is 5 months old and I can't believe it took me this long to switch!

I personally don't find it cheaper up front - but looking at the changes in our puppies health, I fully expect it to be cheaper in the long run. Less vet bills, no teeth cleaning, etc. This puppy had such a sensitive tummy, I couldn't find a food that agreed with him and was sure he was going to have to go on some really bland, prescription dog food ($$) - raw has solved his tummy problems.

I've found really cheap cuts of meat in grocery stores that are more on the 'rougher' side of town - turkey and pork necks, gizzards, tripe, kidneys, heart, liver - all for very good prices. I try to buy in bulk, seperate it into individual portions in baggies and freeze. Then all I have to do is pull out and defrost a little, and buying in bulk is always cheaper. I supplement the super cheap cuts with more expensive (but still low cost) meats like thighs & wings.

 

[Ola_]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ola_ I disagree - when the dangers of weight bearing bones are discussed it typically refers to those of large animals (cows and deer) that carry a lot of weight and also are slaughtered later in life (which gives more time for the bones to become dense). A chicken drumstick (say 5 lbs) is nothing like a beef femur (around 1000 lbs).

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneKnight And I don't know where you are getting 5lb chicken drumsticks!! Two Tyson thighs weighs 1lb almost exactly, I haven't weighed a whole 1/4 in a while but 5lbs would just be woah.

LOL Sorry, I didn't phrase that very well, did I? I meant the weight of the animal that would be held up by said leg.

Last time I weighed dog food (which admittedly was a while ago) a chicken quarter was around the 3/4 lb range, at least the ones we get here.

 

[bec28]

I think I was just getting really frustrating by holding the food for her so she wouldn't eat it too fast because it made my hands super cold and they would occasionally get nicked or hit by her teeth and it hurt! So, yesterday, we tried just giving her the food, and she seemed to do pretty well without one of us holding it for her. So that solved one of my problems

:

I think I'll have to go scope out some stores this weekend and see what I can find for cheap. I was just doing the chicken leg quarters because I read that it's best to start them out on one thing for the first week to make sure they could handle it ok, and then start adding variety in.

So you're saying that pork ribs are good, as well as tripe? Is tripe considered a muscle I guess, not an organ? I'll have to see if I can find some of that.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions!

 

[mistymama]

My Mom's lab loves pork ribs and they are the staple of his diet. And yes, tripe is considered a muscle meat. I use a little to balance out a boney meal, like a chicken wing.

 

[onlyzombiecat]

If your dog is not chewing it then it is probably too small a piece. I would give a bigger piece and not hold it.

I typically would give my approx. 25 lb dog a whole chicken leg quarter once a day. He eats quickly but he is chewing it.
Our Chihuahua gets a chicken wing size piece to a chicken leg a day. She doesn't have a full set of teeth so it takes her a bit longer.

I don't know if I would say it is directly much cheaper to feed raw than to buy a bag of dog food. We aren't paying as much as you are so maybe shop around or look for sales.
However, I think the food is used more efficiently by the animal so you aren't paying for fillers that just end up as poop.
I've seen significant health improvement in one of our dogs who was fed all manner of stuff by previous owners. She has been raw fed for over a year now. I think she is going to live a lot longer and have a better quality of life.

If you are feeding raw for health benefits than maybe the slightly extra cost will seem worth it to you in the long run.

 

[Ola_]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bec28 I think I'll have to go scope out some stores this weekend and see what I can find for cheap. I was just doing the chicken leg quarters because I read that it's best to start them out on one thing for the first week to make sure they could handle it ok, and then start adding variety in.

You're absolutely right, that is a good plan. It's just that chicken alone is not a good long term diet and some people do feed this way. When you add in variety I would do one new thing at a time, just in case something causes loose poops, so you can back up and do that item slower.

Quote:

So you're saying that pork ribs are good, as well as tripe? Is tripe considered a muscle I guess, not an organ? I'll have to see if I can find some of that.

Pork ribs are good, as long as they are not seasoned (the package should say). They are a bit expensive though, with back ribs being more pricey than side ribs usually. If you can find some fairly meaty pork neck bones they are pretty similar and usually significantly cheaper. Both of these I would normally feed with a boneless meat item.

Some other good things that fit in my raw-feeding budget are hearts of all kinds (typically beef and pork). They are an excellent muscle meat and have many important nutrients. Some of these things will be difficult to find at a regular grocery store, depending on your area, but ethnic groceries and butchers usually have more selection.

A note on tripe: you want green tripe for doggie feeding. You won't find this at a grocery store as it is not for human consumption. The only tripe you will find is white or grayish tripe, and both of these have been cleaned/bleached/boiled. This unfortunately removes the beneficial enzymes found in green tripe so don't spend your money on it. Green tripe is not a mandatory item to feed, so don't worry, we have just recently found a place to get it (and have been feeding raw for over 4 years now). Typically you can get it from raw food co-ops, direct from slaughter houses, or sometimes packaged and frozen at pet stores that carry raw.

 

[babynatasha]

We feed our 70lb mutt a raw diet. For the most part she gets 2 -1 1/2lb bags of meat a day. So thats 3lbs a day. She is very active though (border collie/australian cattle/shepherd mutt). I have heard that too much protein can go "stagnant" in a dog who is not active, same with people. So that is how we can justify her eating so much protien. For a less active dog you might want to try a lower protien diet. There is a great Lab board: http://lab-retriever.net/board/index.php? that I used to chat with people about Raw diets. They have quite a lot of useful information and could help you determine a good diet for your dog.

For the most part I buy chicken necks, which I get for around $.49per/lb. I do occassionally get chicken thighes, drumsticks or wings for between $.49-.89per/lb. I find bagging the chicken backs a pain in the butt (too bulky/not enough meat). We don't feed beef as Tinka is allergic. Sometimes I get lamb, but not much as it is very expensive. Organ meats are pretty cheap usually about .49. However last week we got 10lbs of beef kidney for like $2. (The day BEFORE we found out she was allergic)

We usually buy our meat from a restaurant supplier. Chicken comes in 40lb boxes, beef usually in 80lb chucks. We spend the evening bagging the chicken into quart size bags. My stand-alone freezer holds about 180-220lbs of chicken necks. (I do have other stuff in there too). Erery couple of days I transfer a box of food from the basement freezer to the kitchen freezer and have 4 bags defrosting at all times. Then I can just dump out the food, not really touch it and move on. We feed Tinka on a beach towel in the kitchen. The towel then gets hung up on the basement door for the next time. I have never had a problem with smell or with being sick from doing it this way. Our daughter knows not to stand on the towel now, she is 19mos. She will skirt around it if Tinka has finished eating and I haven't had a chance to hang it up yet. We also have a no "kisses" for 15 minutes policy.

Feeding Raw did not help her coat much, IMO, I still vacuum dog hair a couple of times a week. But it could just be her breeds.

On the subject of holding the food for your dog: I find that if Tinka eats a piece of bone that is to big/not chewed down enough, she throws it up. No big deal. If she has loose stools, we skip a meal. I have never had a major problem with this.

We don't feed pork because of worms, not worth the risk to me. Other people may not have issue with this, I guess it is preference. Also I do not find feeding raw significantly cheaper. I guess it depends on what quality of food you were feeding before and how much you are prepared to spend. I don't spend more than I did on regular dog food, as I bought high quality brands. If you are buying cheapo stuff from Walmart, you will probably pay more. BUT this way you get a better quality and you know it. It cost me about $1.60per day to feed my dog. (Including supplements). I have been feeding raw to Tinka for 4 1/2yrs (she was 11wks when we got her) and to my other dog for 1/2yr before she died of Cancer (too little to late).

Good luck!

 

[babynatasha]

Oh yeah! And I forgot to mention the BIGGEST bonus to feeding Raw. I have not picked up dog poo in the yard in over 4yrs!!!! Nor have I stepped in it! The dog poo just turns white and disintergrates! It is the BEST part of feeding raw. No stinky/yucky/gross dog poop to pick up!

:

 

[Ola_]

Quote:

Originally Posted by babynatasha She is very active though (border collie/australian cattle/shepherd mutt). I have heard that too much protein can go "stagnant" in a dog who is not active, same with people. So that is how we can justify her eating so much protien.

I'm not sure where you are getting that from? One of my dogs is a 10 year old who is the world's biggest couch potato and his health has really improved on the raw diet.

 

[youngwife]

Hello!

I am new to MDC, and to raw feeding. Our little puppy is about 4-6 months of age, and about 5-7lbs. We are not sure what mix he is, but we think a terrier/pom mix of some sort.

Anyhoo, he refuses to eat dog food, sheds like crazy, and seems to have a pink tint to his skin with lots of itching. So, we are looking in to feeding him raw.

He would love to eat scrambled eggs all day long. Can raw eggs be a good diet for him, or would he need more meat. Can he eat twice a day, or is three times necessary?

I would appreciate any advice! We are trying to keep costs down as we are financially strapped right now.

Here are a few pics of our little cutie pie, Colby...

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...e/101_5092.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...e/101_5091.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...e/101_5041.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...e/101_4914.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...101_5138-1.jpg

We love him to pieces!!

 

[oneKnight]

Eggs are good, but not a complete diet for dogs.
Dogs really do need a good amount of calcium from bones. Also there's no chewing bones involved, which is important for good teeth.

 

[angie7]

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngwife Hello! I am new to MDC, and to raw feeding. Our little puppy is about 4-6 months of age, and about 5-7lbs. We are not sure what mix he is, but we think a terrier/pom mix of some sort. Anyhoo, he refuses to eat dog food, sheds like crazy, and seems to have a pink tint to his skin with lots of itching. So, we are looking in to feeding him raw. He would love to eat scrambled eggs all day long. Can raw eggs be a good diet for him, or would he need more meat. Can he eat twice a day, or is three times necessary? I would appreciate any advice! We are trying to keep costs down as we are financially strapped right now. Here are a few pics of our little cutie pie, Colby... http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...e/101_5092.jpg http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...e/101_5091.jpg http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...e/101_5041.jpg http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...e/101_4914.jpg http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...101_5138-1.jpg We love him to pieces!!

Off topic but hey! It's angie7 from the ASAP boards!!! I didn't know you were on here, small world, huh?

 

[youngwife]

Angie: Yes, it is a small world!!

How neat! I just joined recently.

oneKnight: Thanks! I'll try to get him bones, then. I am new to all of this, and a little clueless, still.