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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here are 4 reasons Democrats should love the border fence with Mexico.

1. Bush Hates It. It has never been in the interest of Bush to have the fence. Bush has always wanted complete and open trade with Mexico and unhindered immigration.

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLI...ush/index.html

http://www.newswithviews.com/DeWeese/tom63.htm

Conspiracy theories." "Fringe nuts." "Lies." "Myths." These are the words being used by officials of the Bush Administration and others to brand those who have reported on the activities of the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America (SPP), currently operating out of the U.S. Department of Commerce. Opponents have charged the SPP will result in the establishment of a North American Union, much on the same lines as the European Union.


2. The border fence is bad for big businesses. The biggest benefactor to unchecked illegal immigration with Mexico, apart from Mexico itself, is big businesses in America. Stopping illegal immigration will mean that business will have to start paying decent wages and it will under cut their profits. Biggest employer of illegal immigration last year was the housing market. Cost of labor has stagnated in recent years with illegal immigrants willing to work for 1990 wages yet the housing prices have skyrocketed. Where are the profits going?

http://www.organicconsumers.org/Corp/TysonBusted.cfm

Tyson Foods Inc. (TSN), the world's
largest poultry processor, two of the firm's executives and four former
managers have been indicted on charges of conspiracy to smuggle illegal
immigrants to work at its U.S. plants as a way to boost profits, the
Justice Department said on Wednesday.


3. Illegal immigration hurts the poor most. Say an immigrant, illegal or legal, comes into this country and agrees to work for x number of dollars. They know they can't expect more because they don't have skills or know the English language. 5 years later that same immigrant has now expanded his/her English ability and learned the skills of the job so they ask their employer, say Tyson Chicken, for a raise appropriate to their abilities. Tyson Chicken says to that employee, "sorry but I can hire a new immigrant to take your place who is willing to work for less than minimum wage because they are illegal and afraid to ask for more." Tyson keeps their wages low, their profits high and the poor never get a chance to go beyond bottom barrel wages because there will always be many more willing to work for garbage wages.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2001/mexico/release.html

By increasing the supply of unskilled labor, Mexican immigration in the 1990s has reduced the wages of workers without a high school education by an estimated 5 percent. The workers affected are already the lowest-paid, comprising a large share of the working poor and those trying to move from welfare to work.

4. Argue what you will about open immigration with Mexico. But as long as there are illegal border crossings the environment of the desert is being destroyed by the thousands of people crossing daily.

http://www.defenders.org/releases/pr2006/pr020106.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I realize that I posted a similar thread a few weeks back but did not get a chance to read the responses or respond beyond the first day. In case anyone thinks I am beating a dead horse I brought this list up based on the first few arguments I encountered for why people don't like the fence.

However, I am not posting this list in hopes of changing anyones mind. One thing I have learned from political debates is that rarely does anyone change their mind when all is said and done. I just wanted to point out that like it or not illegal immigration has huge ramifications for the top issues concerning democrats.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by lotusbeans View Post
And the #1 up there is just silly... I don't get how that's actually a reason.
Because during the rallies last spring groups were going around passing out fliers about how evil Bush was to the protestors. Had they actually had common sense they would have banded together with Bush on this issue instead of rally against him maybe he wouldn't have caved to congress and stuck to what he wanted which was full amnesty and open-borders.

In addition, the last thread on this topic made a point about pointing out that Bush was signing this to take the public's mind off Iraq. Actually, Bush didn't want to sign the bill and he didn't want to do it publically, congress forced him to do it for their election campaigns
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by lotusbeans View Post
Illegal immigration has huge ramifications for everyone in the country, not just democrats..

No but democrats do claim to love the environment more than republicans, they claim to want to prevent big business fraud more than republicans do and they claim to be the party for the poor.
 

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If Bush hated it, he shouldn't have signed it in to law. He hasn't been shy to veto other bills he hadn't agreed with.

I hate it.. .and find it shameful. I hope it's never built and the money allocated for it goes towards healthcare or education.
 

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I don't like it a bit!

I am a dem!

Y'know fences not only keep folks out, but also keep folks in.

Doesn't set well with me at all.

J.
 

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(For some reason, everytime I see this title, I think it says, "Reasons Democrats should love France." And I wonder, "what's going in France that I've not heard about?" LOL)
 

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The immigrants don't really want to come here either. So unless we address the question of why they are leaving the countries to the south and our role (America's) in this, the fence isn't going to mean anything one way or another.
 

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I think the fence is a terrible idea, and I generally vote democratic, though I don't particularly identify with any political party.
 

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Quote:
The immigrants don't really want to come here either. So unless we address the question of why they are leaving the countries to the south and our role (America's) in this, the fence isn't going to mean anything one way or another
I totally agree with this. No surprise Fox is so upset about the fence. Now he may be forced to see into the problems his own country has in dealing with the poor and uneducated. Easy escape for him was to have Mexico's poor, pour into the US for jobs and send money back to friends and family.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Joyce in the mts. View Post
I don't like it a bit!

I am a dem!

Y'know fences not only keep folks out, but also keep folks in.

Doesn't set well with me at all.

J.
This reminds me of a cartoon I saw once. Two Chinese men are standing on the Great Wall back when it was first built and the one says to the other, "I don't remember, are we supposed to be keeping people out or in."
 

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Yes, because sending in all the people and equipment that goes along with such a project, not to mention the impedement to non-human animal movement, is so good for the environment...
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Unagidon View Post
The immigrants don't really want to come here either. So unless we address the question of why they are leaving the countries to the south and our role (America's) in this, the fence isn't going to mean anything one way or another.
yup
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Unagidon View Post
The immigrants don't really want to come here either. So unless we address the question of why they are leaving the countries to the south and our role (America's) in this, the fence isn't going to mean anything one way or another.

I would like to see the link for that information.

http://pewhispanic.org/reports/report.php?ReportID=52

Meanwhile, separate PHC surveys conducted in Mexico show that about four of every ten adults in the Mexican population say they would migrate to the United States if they had the means and opportunity and that two of every ten are inclined to live and work here without legal authorization. The willingness to migrate, even illegally, is evident in all sectors of Mexican society including the middle class and the well-educated as well as those who are poor and who only completed low-levels of schooling.

Even the middle class and well-educated want to come to America.
 

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I am a Dem and I am not feeling the fence love.

I think it is;

A: A ridiculous waste of money

B: Hypocritical

C: Huge waste of time

D: Will be ineffective

Just because Bush dislikes something doesn't mean I will immediately like it, Bush has a dog, but I don't hate dogs.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mahrphkjh View Post
I would like to see the link for that information.

http://pewhispanic.org/reports/report.php?ReportID=52

Meanwhile, separate PHC surveys conducted in Mexico show that about four of every ten adults in the Mexican population say they would migrate to the United States if they had the means and opportunity and that two of every ten are inclined to live and work here without legal authorization. The willingness to migrate, even illegally, is evident in all sectors of Mexican society including the middle class and the well-educated as well as those who are poor and who only completed low-levels of schooling.

Even the middle class and well-educated want to come to America.
All this says is that a lot of people in Mexico want to come to the US, which we already know. It doesn't say why. And it says that even middle class people want to come. But that's true of France or India. What it doesn't say is that middle class Mexicans want to come to the US to do low paying work, does it?
 
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