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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone ever heard of "refilling" a laboring mom's uterus with saline to flush out meconium stained water?

The friend I posted about in another thread said that when her water broke (SROM) it was green with mec (she says this meant it happened a couple of days ago - can anyone confirm/deny that?). The on-call doc decided to flush out the mec water by inserting a catheter (pushing baby out of the way first - causing decels instantly) and apparently pumping saline in continuously. She says it slowly flushed out the mec BUT kept up fluid in her uterus.

I have never heard of this before! It sounds crazy to me, but I'm no expert here. Just wanted to see what the real experts think of this!
 

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I have no links to share on this, but I'll bet mwherbs does...I have heard however, that there is no evidence to show that this procedure changes outcomes. It was also done to me at my one hospital birth 9yrs ago (last baby, first hospital birth/csec after all other homebirths). I agreed to it since in theory it sounded good and my waters were 'pea soup'. Only years later did I hear that there is no evidence to support the practice. The idea is that by removing the mec, the baby is less likely to aspirate any of it into the lungs.

The thing with mec is that while a fair amount of babes do pass mec in utero, few of them aspirate it--or aspirate enough to cause problems. But most hosp providers look upon mec with dread because it CAN cause big problems for babies--from what I have seen myself, there seems to be little by way of middle ground: most babies by far are ok with mec in the water, but rarely, a baby does aspirate enough of it to cause serious illness or even death.

To me, saline replacement seems like one of those things that med ppl 'do', because they need to 'do' something, even something of no use--to control what is uncontrollable and their own fear. If the mec is 'old', for instance (at least a couple of days if not weeks), then it could well already be too late for saline replacement. It *could* be that there was a cord accident or something else leading to oxygen deprivation that prompted the baby to pass mec and then to gasp for breath, sucking in the mec. If there is mec already in the baby's lungs, saline replacement will have very little if any impact on outcome--the baby's fate then rests on it's own strength, on the amount of mec present in lungs, and on protective measures taken after birth (suctioning and resp. therapy, for instance).

With 'too much' mec--essentially filling lungs or entirely clogging trachea--it may already be too late because too much time could pass between removing mec/opening airway and actually getting oxygen into the baby. This is especially true since in the presence of mec, most often in hospitals the cord is immediately cut, thus necessitating that the baby get oxygen through its lungs since none is coming thru umb. cord anymore. With a lesser amount of mec in lungs/trachea, then those measures for suctioning and respiratory therapy after the birth could well be plenty for that babe's health. If baby is still strong (not already too brain damaged from original incident in utero that led to mec aspiration in the first place), baby will try to breathe, heart will beat for several minutes even w/out oxygen, a struggle for survival will ensue that are most likely to be helped by med intervention. If baby is already 'gone' in terms of brain damage from original incident--but mainly only living on the 'life support' provided by placenta/cord while in utero--then there will be very little or no efforts made by baby toward survival.

Again, that extreme possibility is pretty remote--MOST babies w/mec in water do FINE.

I haven't provided anything solid on the saline replacement--I hope another of the birth professionals will since I too, would like to see research on this.
 

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That would be amnioinfusion, right? I had that with my first baby's birth. It wasn't for mec. It was because she was having decels due to cord compression after AROM.
It did correct the problem, but I wish I had been told the real risks of AROM.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Veritaserum View Post
That would be amnioinfusion, right? I had that with my first baby's birth. It wasn't for mec. It was because she was having decels due to cord compression after AROM.
It did correct the problem, but I wish I had been told the real risks of AROM.

I've seen it for decels as well. At one birth, the doc did mention that it would help with mec as well, but she ordered it for the cord compressions. The compressions that weren't happening until she broke mom's water............

OK, back to topic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Wow, I had no idea this was what sounds to be a fairly common practice. Thanks for the info, ladies!
 

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I don't have any studies I can site to support this, but I've also heard that the amnioinfusion itself can cause the probs that are blamed on the mec. First, the fluid is not warmed to body temp before infused into the mom
(98.6), so basically the babe is getting a cold bath (fluiid at room temp might be 80F, lower if taken from the cooler storage room) inutero, causing cold stress. Also, although the fluid itself may be sterile in it's bag, it is introduced through the vaginal canal where there are normal occuring bacteria, possible even GBS, that are now being flushed around the babe as well. Seems likely all of this can lead to stress and greater increase for infection.
I only have RN experience in this and have not seen good results. Would be curious to see what others thought.
N
 

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Wow! Never thought about the temperature!

I saw an amnioinfusion, for what I would term light mec staining with a postdates baby, SROM @ active labor, baby was deep suctioned, and no water seemed to come back out of the vagina after the amnioinfusion was performed. It didn't seem particularly helpful, honestly.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Nunny View Post
I don't have any studies I can site to support this, but I've also heard that the amnioinfusion itself can cause the probs that are blamed on the mec. First, the fluid is not warmed to body temp before infused into the mom
(98.6), so basically the babe is getting a cold bath (fluiid at room temp might be 80F, lower if taken from the cooler storage room) inutero, causing cold stress. Also, although the fluid itself may be sterile in it's bag, it is introduced through the vaginal canal where there are normal occuring bacteria, possible even GBS, that are now being flushed around the babe as well. Seems likely all of this can lead to stress and greater increase for infection.
I only have RN experience in this and have not seen good results. Would be curious to see what others thought.
N
I've worked L&D in 3 hospitals and in only one of them, we used a blood warmer to warm the fluid.

I was just discussing amnioinfusion for mec with one of the MFM (perinatology) fellows the other day. The hospital where I'm working now doesn't do it anymore. According to the MFM fellow, the large scale studies have shown that it doesn't help and according to her these days "everyone pretty much agrees that mec. aspiration is an intrauterine event preceding labor".

There are studies showing it can relieve cord pressure that cause severe variables when mom has low fluid or after rupture of membranes. The question is, are variables in and of themselves dangerous? Esp. in spontaneous (not pitocin driven) labor? But gee, who has THAT
.
 

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amnioinfusions-- as others have said is no longer recommended for mec because mec aspiration syndrome something that happens before birth- wear and tear on surfactant and possible infection-- so diluting it in labor is a bit late in the process. Research and practice always has a gap-
here is a medline link to a 2005 study-- the only positive use may be varible decels-- as in other studies on low fluid levels it made no difference in outcome either

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/511895?rss
 

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another thing that has recently come to my mind with the differnent interventions, including the amnioinfusion is the possible link to amniotic fluid embolism. When going into the uterus with tubing or insturments of any sort we are increasing the chance of scraping the lining and therefore creating a source for the amniotic fluid to get into the blood stream. AFE is a leading cause of maternal death. Along with the already mentioned reasons why it's pointless, it seems like more harm that good can come of it. For the L&D professionals here, are they working with moms positions to correct decels before going to the amnioinfusion?
 

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I had amnioinfusion w/ds2 b/c my water broke, but he wasn't coming out and we thought giving him more fluid might help things- certainly made contractions less painful. Turned out to be poor positioning (we found out after we ended up doing a csec) he was trying to come out forehead first.
 
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