Mothering Forum banner

1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,746 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone read the book, "Adoptions are made in heaven," by Kathie Belonger.<br><br><a href="https://www2.xlibris.com/bookstore/bookdisplay.asp?bookid=18725" target="_blank">https://www2.xlibris.com/bookstore/b...p?bookid=18725</a><br><br>
What are your thoughts on this book?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,794 Posts
Haven't read it, but the title gives me the creeps. In my opinion, setting up the idea that adoptions were God's plan, or meant to be, etc. is an unhealthy way of looking at the reality of adoption losses...either minimizing the pain/loss of the birth parents, or the adoptee, or both.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,058 Posts
I took a look at the sample pages from that link and wasn't impressed. I had the same feelings that ROM had. I'm not religious, though, so that may also affect my interpretation (to a lesser degree.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,304 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>RedOakMomma</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11563220"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Haven't read it, but the title gives me the creeps. In my opinion, setting up the idea that adoptions were God's plan, or meant to be, etc. is an unhealthy way of looking at the reality of adoption losses...either minimizing the pain/loss of the birth parents, or the adoptee, or both.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
<br>
ROM I have so much respect for you -- if you have time -- could you add to this...<br><br>
We tell our children now they are gifts from God and that He gave us to them and them to us for His purpose -- one we may or may not ever understand.<br><br>
How would you address that / will you adress that with Ellen? or any child ... "why am I ______ (deaf, blind, short tall, bad at math, your child, etc).<br><br>
I suppose a family would have to have faoundation of believeing or accepting that God is in control and that He has a Plan for everything that happens ....<br><br>
But I don't see how you can discuss a child's birth, or adoption, with out God's Will and God's Plan ....<br><br>
I have not read the book -- but -- in general....I pray, now, for the child we will adopt someday, I pray now for my grandchildren and currently my 2 yo uis still rocking a purple monkey to sleep <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"> ... I do think our adoptin will be first created in heaven, and then enacted on earth.<br><br>
JMO<br><br>
Aimee
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,058 Posts
Aimee, you asked ROM, but would you care for other responses? It's ok if you don't, just ignore what I've written.<br><br>
I think a lot depends on your religious perspective, or lack of. My family doesn't practice a religion. So, for us, adoption (and birth) doesn't have anything to do with God. Chris came here because T wasn't able to keep him safe and he went to live with A and B (his first foster family,) then with Grandma, and finally with me. At this point, he doesn't remember anything about his life with T so we don't really talk about it much. It will change as he grows, but it won't be from a religious perspective.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,304 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>BethNC</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11588438"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Aimee, you asked ROM, but would you care for other responses? It's ok if you don't, just ignore what I've written.<br><br>
I think a lot depends on your religious perspective, or lack of. My family doesn't practice a religion. So, for us, adoption (and birth) doesn't have anything to do with God. Chris came here because T wasn't able to keep him safe and he went to live with A and B (his first foster family,) then with Grandma, and finally with me. At this point, he doesn't remember anything about his life with T so we don't really talk about it much. It will change as he grows, but it won't be from a religious perspective.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
<br>
Beth -- of course I'd love any answer. and I hope i have not stepped on toes. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/innocent.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shy"><br><br>
Maybe it all comes down to the role of faith in our lives?<br><br>
Aimee
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,746 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The reason I initially posted this is I am conflicted about this book. Aside from the fact that 1) It doesn't look like it is well written. 2) Although I am spiritual, I do not buy the heaven/god that is in this book.<br><br>
Yet I believe that things may happen because of forces greater than we can understand. I believe that if it was best, I would get pregnant again. I also believe that there may be reasons besides biology that I'm not being given that miracle (aside from the fact that I was given the miracle of a pregnancy at 42.)<br><br>
So, I believe there may be a baby out there that is meant to be ours (or maybe there isn't.) For some reason, someone else is to make that baby. Our karma and destinies are intertwined. We lived through the hearbreak of accepting we can't make another baby. She will live through the heartbreak of not being able to raise the next baby that is meant to be ours (assuming one is.) And somewhere in there, we all get tremendous gifts. Somewhere in there, the baby is being given a tremendous gift.<br><br>
Okay, so that's my spiritual theory. I'm also open to the idea that it's just a bunch of hooey. I also want to be very clear that if an expectant mom contacts us, we don't automatically assume this is the baby destined for us. I am very aware that maybe she contacts us and at the last minute changes her mind. If she does, clearly that baby was not "destined" to be ours and I'm not pushing anyone into thinking she has to give us her baby because it is destiny. (My spirituality may be a bunch of hooey, but her rights are not.)<br><br>
The other part of me wants to know how a birthmom might feel having the baby told she was never supposed to be more than a vessel (I'm purposely making that sound crass.) I guess that would also depend on her spirituality. I wonder how the baby/child could interpret this whole thing. The emotions of adoption are individual and varied. Is there some relief for birthmom and baby thinking that her decision to place was influenced by forces greater than we understand?<br><br>
I'd like to understand if this book (or at least the ideas in it) are dependent on one's spiritual leanings or if there is something inherently positive or negative in it.<br><br>
We all find comfort in different ways. Would anyone out there find comfort in this book?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
Ya, the book looks really poorly written and lame.<br><br>
Outside of that, I think adoption and spirituality can be connected. In fact, I was a devout atheist until I started down the adoption road and I knew, without a doubt, there was a force leading me to this particular child. I don't think God killed off my son's parents so I could have another child. I don't think it is my job to swoop in and rescue this child in the name of God. We simply said, "Hey, let's adopt a kid!" and God said "This one.....No, I'm serious, this one......did you not hear me the first time?...........That kid, he's yours...........FINALLY!"<br><br>
I think spirituality can play a role but I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea that an adoptive family is "meant to be."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,737 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Momma Aimee</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11588200"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">But I don't see how you can discuss a child's birth, or adoption, with out God's Will and God's Plan ....</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Because, simply, it's not your place to describe how God will reveal that journey to your child.<br><br>
You can talk about YOUR journey, but to project your experience onto your child is wrong, and can backfire extremely painfully for your child.<br><br>
What happens if and when they start to feel sadness over losing their birthfamily and being separated from any siblings they have? What happens if they learn that they were born of a rape, or abused? What they will know is their personal feelings, and then what you have told them--that God intended all of that to happen to them.<br><br>
I know many adoptees, myself included, who had a crisis of faith in that moment...because essentially we were told that God is a God blind to suffering (ours, the birthfamily's whatever)...that he can make mistakes (put me with the wrong family)...that since I don't feel totally at home here and have these longings I must be evil since I'm going against what God has preordained, ect.<br><br>
So I'd be really careful with that. Your child may take you very literally seriously...and while those messages may not be your intent, I've met too many people who had the same feelings I did to believe that I am some freak.<br><br>
Oddly, I never got those messages about God from my parents. (I could have blown them off if I did). They were from my closest aunt and second mother figure, who is just about the sweetest and kindest and most sincere person you could ever hope to meet. So she wasn't doing it to be punitive, it was her way of expressing how happy she was that I was her beloved niece. As an adult I can see that what she was trying to do is relay HER pathway to me.<br><br>
But with her superimposing that as MY journey to HER led to some pretty unfortunate misunderstandings.<br><br>
Not sure anyone else will be able to 'get' that...but I hope you will be very careful in how you present it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,304 Posts
tiger, i respect your views and expereince as always, however i thik it comes down to a fundenmental differnce in faith in our lives.<br><br>
Bad things do happen, to us all, that doesn't -- for us -- mean God doesn't still have a plan is not still in control. He doesn't make mistakes, however freewill exisits and PEOPLE make mistakes and are effected by others. God is never blind to suffering, and ther eis always a purpose. THAT is one of the hardest aspect of Faith, for me, to accpet and live. and i have ne desire to debate it -- espcailly not hijacking a book thread <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"><br><br>
AImee
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
<i>You can talk about YOUR journey, but to project your experience onto your child is wrong, and can backfire extremely painfully for your child.<br></i><br><br>
That's exactly why I was uncomfortable with this book. If I were my soon-to-be son I'd look at that exert in that book and say, "So God was there for me after my parents died. Why wasn't he there before hand?" This goes is touching on a whole different subject all together and it depends on one's own spiritual belief system. I'm not a "it was God's will" sort of person but I believe people are brought together for a reason.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,813 Posts
I am a religious person, when push comes to shove. I don't think God is blind to our suffering, but we are warned in the Bible (if you believe in it) that suffer we shall. In many, many ways. But there are avenues of relief to our suffering, and we can grow beautiful things out of it. For example, I saw a news segment on a very beautiful woman who lost a breast to cancer. She got a glorious rose tattoo over the mastectomy scar and was photographed to support others going through the same thing. I was knew a woman who was blind, but rode horses despite her disability.<br><br>
I guess adoption can be compared to rebuilding after great losses from a storm. Yes, your former house was wrecked, you lost a lot of your possessions, but you are rebuilding and will rebuild to a brighter future.<br><br>
In a book I think called <i>Chicken Soup for The Adoption Soul</i> a young Russian girl's birth mother sank into crippling alcoholism. Her elderly grandmother took her to the local orphanage at age 5. It was a tragic experience. At twelve, she met her adoptive mother from America. While the past seven years of her life were tragic, there was still hope of a better future. She didn't have to be sad for the rest of her life.<br><br>
This book sounds gooey. I've seen a lot of Christian books on a lot of different topics that sound sweet but are really insensitive. I would stick with Chicken Soup. When I read it, it was honest, loving, and had opinions from all sides of the triad.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,737 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Momma Aimee</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11591978"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">tiger, i respect your views and expereince as always, however i thik it comes down to a fundenmental differnce in faith in our lives.<br><br>
Bad things do happen, to us all, that doesn't -- for us -- mean God doesn't still have a plan is not still in control. He doesn't make mistakes, however freewill exisits and PEOPLE make mistakes and are effected by others. God is never blind to suffering, and ther eis always a purpose. THAT is one of the hardest aspect of Faith, for me, to accpet and live. and i have ne desire to debate it -- espcailly not hijacking a book thread <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"><br><br>
AImee</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
You asked how people would discuss faith in the context of adoption, after people brought up the issue as one of the reasons why they're uncomfortable with the book you mentioned. Did you not want to receive any answers about it?<br><br>
Again, yes, I see that is what YOU believe. However, even the most fundamentalist Christians I know tend to believe that while there is one *way* to God, what people see/feel/experiences while being drawn to him is quite different.<br><br>
I'm only asking you to consider your words very carefully, so that unintended intepretations of your words don't act as a stumbling block for your child.<br><br>
I really do think it's best to talk about YOUR journey more than your child's. Because you can't and won't know that. Don't set them up for thinking that if they sometimes feel sad over this wonderful plan of God's that somehow they're rejecting God (because I do know in some churches that will invoke the 'unforgivable sin' aspect of things that they may also have heard of/been taught and mistakenly apply it to themselves...kids have a way of doing that.).<br><br>
That's what I find most disturbing about really saccharine religious adoption books. Like Kmeyrick, I prefer ones with a bit more depth. I understand that obviously one isn't going to go into deep doctrine and theology with a preschooler, but that doesn't mean that they don't hear little bits and pieces and apply their own understandings to it. I am 100 percent positive that there have GOT to be deeply religious but more nuanced books out there.<br><br>
I'm not saying the author is some kind of insensitive louse or anything. I can totally understand the good intentions/comforting intentions of the author and people who use those phrases.<br><br>
And I'm sure there are some kids who it goes totally over their heads. But you simply can't know that, until they're in a place to tell you.<br><br>
But I dunno, don't feel I'm communicating this well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,794 Posts
I prefer not to blame God for anything, or to say that anything unfortunate was meant to be. Bad things happen to good people, senseless tragedy happens, and I don't believe God has anything to do with it.<br><br>
When my kids ask why our oldest sons have/had special needs, I'm certainly not going to say it was God. Trust me...to say that God is the reason my children have suffered, have seized, have died...that is NOT what I want to credit God for. Why did that happen? Genetics.<br><br>
And why did E get adopted? Why are we her parents? Because her mom couldn't raise her, and her mom chose adoption.<br><br>
Now, on the other hand, does God love our kids...special needs, biological, adopted? Yup. Do I need to inject God into every sad or mysterious happening in our lives? No. For us, and for me, God is about love, and about healing, and about a way to live life. God doesn't have to be the reason behind every step of life...because let's face it, most of the reasons behind the steps in life are distinctly human. Especially adoption, with all its gritty truths, sad realities, and painful losses.<br><br>
I've shared this before, but my mom was killed in a motorcycle accident. A couple of years later, my dad remarried to a really wonderful woman. I stood up in their wedding, and was standing when someone toasted them. The speaker wasn't referring to my mom when they said it, but they said something like: "these two were meant to be together. God had a hand in bringing them together." Right there, it was like someone had stabbed me. In a matter of seconds I went from not getting why adoption "meant to be" was potentially insensitive to vowing that I'd never use the phrase to my own children. I actually had to catch my breath at the unexpected pain of that statement, that moment.<br><br>
They were meant to be together? Does that mean that I was meant to lose my mother, that my children were meant to lose their nana? Does that mean the pain we felt, and feel, was all necessary to bring my dad and stepmom together? Was our pain, our loss, all a part of some master plan? I really doubt it.<br><br>
Or what about my sons? Were they meant to suffer? Were they meant to live lives of frustration, pain, and heartbreak? Were we? How could God's plan possibly involve the suffering and death of an innocent child?<br><br>
What about E's mom? Was she meant to go through the mental and physical agony of placing a child for adoption?<br><br>
I think adoptive parents, for the most part, feel no unease with "meant to be" or "God's plan" because, of everyone in the adoption triad, we're the only ones who don't have to suffer significant loss and trauma when an adoption takes place.<br><br>
Humans cause pain, humans get hurt, and in the end we find ways to make the best of our lives, to scrape together love and happiness despite challenging circumstances. In that grace, that ability, there is some gift of God, but I dont' believe God is the one pulling the strings. No God of mine could be so cruel.<br><br><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325&tag=motheringhud-20&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fgp%2Fproduct%2F1400034728%2Fref%3Dcm_cr_pr_product_top" target="_blank">This book</a> may be of some interest.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,746 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>RedOakMomma</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11592815"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I think adoptive parents, for the most part, feel no unease with "meant to be" or "God's plan" because, of everyone in the adoption triad, we're the only ones who don't have to suffer significant loss and trauma when an adoption takes place.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
I disagree that aparents don't have to suffer loss and trauma. I think it depends on the type of adoption and the circumstances. We are adopting because, frankly, I am old. I am past childbearing. I am more than grateful that I got pregnant at 42. But that doesn't mean I haven't cried over my inability to conceive another child. We had a very bizarre experience on our wedding anniversary while we were at a play. I had the random thought that someone might be conceiving my child that night. I went into the theater bathroom and cried. It was my anniversary and MY child that I would raise and love and I could not be there to create it. I could not be there to sing it songs as I had to my son before he was born. I could not eat 2 doses of cottage cheese a day to make sure it got enough protein in my vegetarian diet. I could not protect it from the losses it would feel being adopted. So, although some adoptive parents are adopting only for altruistic reasons, others are doing so only after having come to terms with a tremendous loss of their own. (At least I hope they've come to accept it.)<br><br>
For me, it is my spirituality that allows me to be in a space to adopt. I am open to receiving the child that is meant to be mine. I am open to however it needs to come into my life. I am open to helping it overcome the journey it took without me there to protect and love it.<br><br>
Part of why I am open to adoption is I have birthed. I know what labor is like. I know what it is to look at a child that looks exactly like me (except he has my husband's legs.) I know what it is like to have a child comfort to a song both before and after it is born. I know all that stuff. But for an adoptive family who never got to do that, I can only imagine how much suffering they have done and may well continue to do. Especially if they choose an open adoption. They may do so because they feel it is best for bmom and child. But what will they feel like when the child they love looks nothing like them and everything like her? What will they feel like when the child's mannerism and personality more closely match the birthfamily's and not theirs? What will they feel like when the birth mom tells the child stories from her pregnancy and the adoptive mother can only sit by and listen in and not share? You can't tell me there is no pain there for the amom!<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>RedOakMomma</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11592815"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Humans cause pain, humans get hurt, and in the end we find ways to make the best of our lives, to scrape together love and happiness despite challenging circumstances. In that grace, that ability, there is some gift of God, but I dont' believe God is the one pulling the strings. No God of mine could be so cruel.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
We all have our ideas on what "god" is. I like the quote from the movie Dogma. To paraphrase, "It is better to have ideas than beliefs. No one has ever killed over an idea."<br><br>
I don't have the traditional judeo-christian "God" ideas. Personally, I think life is about learning. (See the movie Defending your Life.) Just as a child struggles to learn to ride a bike or they struggle to learn to say the alphabet, humans struggle with the lessons they must learn. Perhaps in this life I had to learn to live with a dysfunctional family. I have overcome many of the things that were done to me. I am stronger for it. Would I have chosen my childhood? I know I wouldn't subject it on another child, but maybe I gained a lot from it. In one theory I have on the Universe, children do choose their parents which means I chose mine--whatever that means.<br><br>
I often try to understand the holocaust. How can it be that a Universe that has given me so many good things did not give the same equally good things to the victims of the holocaust (or other horrid event.) I brought this up with a friend. Her opinion is that we are here to learn everything from the highest highs to the lowest lows.<br><br>
When you think reincarnation is a possibility, and that in the next life the blind child will be an eagle, then the difficulties we all live with aren't as overwhelming.<br><br>
Or, as I said in a prior post, maybe my ideas are all hooey. Maybe all they do for me is make it easier for me to get out of bed knowing there are horrendous, unspeakable things happening to children, animals, and others right now.<br><br>
I didn't mean to hijack my thread here. However, this was turning into a spiritual discussion that seemed to only have 2 types of spirituality (or lack thereof) in it and I wanted to interject a 3rd with the possibility that there are a gazillion others.<br><br>
I agree we should not burden our children with our world views. On the other hand, we must share our world views with our children so they have a starting point. If I find tremendous beauty in the origins of the adoption triad, despite the pain to ALL participants, then I want to share that beauty with my child. I have suffered some terrible pains in my life and have made sense of most of them. The one I don't understand was the death of my best friend in our 20s. Yet that wasn't the worst one. But if it weren't for the worst thing that ever happened to me, my son would not have been born. I think that is why it is easy for me to say that my adoption journey is "meant to be." I have lived through terrible events and know grace is always at the end. Maybe I don't get chosen as an adoptive mother. Maybe I don't get my fantasy family. Okay, true, my fantasy family would be 2 bio kids. But since I am open to whatever the Universe gives me, I have changed my fantasy to 1 bio, 1 adopted. Maybe I don't get that fantasy. That is a HUGE loss for me and I am okay with that because of my spirituality.<br><br>
So, if my worldview allows me to accept such losses so I can move on from the pain as easily as possible, why wouldn't I want to share that with my children?<br><br>
By the way, I did read, "When Bad Things Happen to Good People." It was at a terrible point in my life. I barely remember the book. I know a lot of people have found it helpful so I would recommend others see if it helps them. Since I can't really remember much about the book, I think I found it lacking for my world view.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,737 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mybabysmama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11593292"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I agree we should not burden our children with our world views. On the other hand, we must share our world views with our children so they have a starting point.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
No, I never said that you should never 'burden our children with our world views'. What I said was we should never presume that our children will share exactly the same experience as we do, in the context of our world views.<br><br>
They look at things with different eyes. However we might wish to project on them or think that somehow we can give them the exact same experience as we have, it's not possible.<br><br>
I think a parent that gives no spiritual input or instruction to their children is a neglectful parent. However...you have to be careful about universalising your experience to your child.<br><br>
Which is why I've tried to say in many ways to please be careful how you present things. Not because you should never present anything spiritual to your child, that would be ridiculous. But to be careful not to assume that your child's experience of their adoption, for all its good and/or sorrow, will mirror your own.<br><br>
When you say "I feel that God meant for you to be my child" you mean only love and joy. At some points and with some kids though, they will hear that as "I was a mess-up, I couldn't even start where I was supposed to." And you're not going to know until they can tell you--which might be a long time afterward.<br><br>
But if that language is important to you, then it's important to you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,746 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Tigerchild</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11593440"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Which is why I've tried to say in many ways to please be careful how you present things. Not because you should never present anything spiritual to your child, that would be ridiculous. But to be careful not to assume that your child's experience of their adoption, for all its good and/or sorrow, will mirror your own.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Thank you for the clarification. I think we are in agreement that no one can ever totally understand another person's perspective. It is very easy for a parent to assume that their children will naturally see the world the same way that they do. Which is why I started this thread in the first place. I know where I'm coming from with this line of thinking, but I want to know how an adopted child might perceive the type of ideas presented in this book.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Tigerchild</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11593440"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">When you say "I feel that God meant for you to be my child" you mean only love and joy. At some points and with some kids though, they will hear that as "I was a mess-up, I couldn't even start where I was supposed to." And you're not going to know until they can tell you--which might be a long time afterward.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Wow! In my spiritual view, the child started out exactly where they were supposed to. There is some karmic reason why this triad had to be created. Grace will come from it as long as we allow it. So you're right. I would never think that a child would think that since I have no frame of reference for that.<br><br>
I do think we need to be careful of how we present stuff. Alas, it sometimes takes a lot of work for me to not be the proverbial bull in the china shop. However, we also can't always not share stuff simply because of how someone might misinterpret it. The important thing, to me, is that we be approachable to our kids. Our kids will misinterpret a lot of stuff. But if we are the type of people that they can trust, they will be able to come to us and say, "Why did you..." and we can clarify and apologize and move on. Most likely we will all learn and grow from the event. If they can't come to us it is a sad reflection on either us or them and there will be no growth. No grace.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,813 Posts
Maybe I can volunteer my spiritual philosophy here? Like I said, I actually am religious, but I wouldn't define my self as well versed in theology. I'm not. But, here goes.<br><br>
God does not block suffering. But He does give us an opportunity to heal and even grow from it. He won't stop that storm tearing through land, but He will help the plants regrow after it.<br><br>
So it is with adoption. It is meant to be an avenue out of what was presumably a bad situation before. Things aren't all roses and sugar, and never will be, it's true. But it can get better, thanks to God.<br><br>
My mother lost her father at a year old due to a military blunder. My grandma was widowed at twenty-one. Four years later, my grandma and mom received relief through God when my adoptive grandfather came into our lives. It doesn't make my bio-grandfather's death any less tragic, but at least my grandma didn't have to remain lonely and my mother fatherless.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,058 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mybabysmama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11593292"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;"><br>
Part of why I am open to adoption is I have birthed. I know what labor is like. I know what it is to look at a child that looks exactly like me (except he has my husband's legs.) I know what it is like to have a child comfort to a song both before and after it is born. I know all that stuff. But for an adoptive family who never got to do that, I can only imagine how much suffering they have done and may well continue to do. Especially if they choose an open adoption. They may do so because they feel it is best for bmom and child. But what will they feel like when the child they love looks nothing like them and everything like her? What will they feel like when the child's mannerism and personality more closely match the birthfamily's and not theirs? What will they feel like when the birth mom tells the child stories from her pregnancy and the adoptive mother can only sit by and listen in and not share? You can't tell me there is no pain there for the amom!<br></div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
I'm not infertile (that I know of,) but I'm not in a relationship (and may never be) and will never give birth to a baby. So it's different in many ways, but still the same. I think if you are in the mindset that you described, you (not you personally) may not be ready to adopt a child. That person may not have dealt with the pain that still so fresh.<br><br>
My son does have my blond hair and blue eyes. But that's where the similarities end. Our body shapes are completely different. He's a optimist, which is so not me (although I would love to be.) He's bright, curious, and silly. He brings me tiny bugs that I could cook for dinner. He looks a lot like his birth mother, and almost exactly like his younger sister. They all have the same fingers and toes.<br><br>
We visited his birth mother, and new baby, the other day. I did a lot of comparing. I noticed many similarities between the three of them (although the new baby has different fingers and toes.) But I got to see the crib Chris slept in as a baby. I got to see more pictures of his early days. Probably taken before things went really wrong. At least, I hope so. They looked happy.<br><br>
For me (in this particular situation, at this particular time) open adoption answers a lot of questions and therefore is good for me, too. I know I'm his Mommy. Yes, it hurts a little when he accidently calls her Mommy or he's talking to me and she thinks he's talking to her. But I can deal with those moments, because I know that these times together are good for all of us.<br><br>
My foster daughter looks nothing like me. If I end up adopting, I need to do it from a place where those things don't matter. I love her because of who SHE is, not the individual pieces of her.<br><br>
Just my thoughts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,746 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>BethNC</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11593830"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I'm not infertile (that I know of,) but I'm not in a relationship (and may never be) and will never give birth to a baby. So it's different in many ways, but still the same. I think if you are in the mindset that you described, you (not you personally) may not be ready to adopt a child. That person may not have dealt with the pain that still so fresh.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
We agree if someone hasn't come to terms with there inability to have a child, no matter what the cause, they probably aren't ready to adopt.<br><br>
My comments were meant to address someone stating that adoptive parents don't suffer trauma and loss. I wanted to point out that, depending on why they are on the adoption path, they may well have suffered HUGE trauma at some point. Even if they have worked through their grief, most likely they will have little tidbits of it again down the road. Hopefully not in huge, emotional way, but the loss will always be there for them.
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Top