[mischievium]

Does anyone else struggle with this? I feel like the last few days of my pregnancy and parts of the pregnancy as a whole are slowly becoming tainted with my feelings of regret and guilt. Like I should have known that the fact that Soren was a mellow baby (i.e.: not super active) in the womb was a sign that something might be wrong and not a personality thing. I mean, I did wonder at times, but I was also told that having an anterior placenta would dampen his movement (or my perception of it) and that babies are very different in terms of their activity level.

I think about the last time I can be absolutely sure I felt him move and I wonder if he was struggling and that's why he moved so much right then. At the time, I was reassured by his movement. Now, I'm haunted by it.

I think about my last few yoga classes and wonder if I shouldn't have done the "legs up the wall" pose, that maybe that shifted him in a way he shouldn't have been shifted.

I think about the NST I had on the Friday before his birth and think that I was in denial since I allowed myself to be reassured by it. The reality is more complicated than just being in denial-- I wanted him to be okay, a professional was telling me he was okay, and the voice of doubt in my head could have been either intuition or fear. It's so hard, looking back now, not to think myself a fool. Not to wonder if I had voiced my fears more if maybe Soren could have been saved.

I don't know... we're still waiting to hear if there are any answers as to why this happened (pre-eclampsia? cord accident? something else?) and I am going through the probably very normal process of questioning everything. I just hope when I am done, I can remember the joy of being pregnant. It's so hard not to let my feelings now color what I remember of then.

 

[MI_Dawn]

Yes.

Not surprisingly, I suppose, my thoughts follow yours. I'm doing the same second-guessing and playing what if. You did more than I did, Mama. I was in prodromal labor for five days. Did that exhaust him? *I* was certainly exhausted, and it was totally out of my pattern, like my body was persistently trying to tell me, "something's wrong, something's wrong."

I played all the same mind games with myself - and my baby WAS active prior - they slow down at the end. He's tired from all the labor. I'm so tired, I'm not noticing him moving as much. He's changed position and I can't feel him as much. He's getting bigger (ha - little 5lb peanut) and not able to kick as hard. I didn't follow my intuition. I didn't go get a NST. I didn't rent a doppler. I THOUGHT of these things. I did finally call my MW. On a day a KNOW he was alive. But I decided to wait until we had our appt on Wed. I mean... it was only a few days... and labor seemed to be coming...

And I had a flurry of activity I remember, too. I was SO reassured by it. THERE you are, William. Thank god, where have you been, baby? Whew, you scared Mommy. And then it was over, and for a while, everything was fine in my head. But the movement didn't come again that way. Not like that. Contractions did. Things I thought were movements. Phantom kicks, maybe. But not like that. I think they were the last moments he was alive, and I didn't know.

And I, like you, wonder if he suffered, am haunted by that thought. Was he in pain? Please, god, let it have been quick and painless. Please let him have just gone to sleep. Please don't let those last few moments have been a struggle for my sweet little baby boy. Was I rejoicing in that moment, in that movement, at the moment of his death? I know it's sick, morbid, horrible... and I'll never know... but I think it. I can't deny I'm entertaining the thought.

 

[mischievium]

Oh, Dawn

. I'm not sure I did do more.

 

[SMR]

I felt the same way, and 7 months later still have those thoughts.. why didn't I know? I mean, I KNEW.. but I thought being 39weeks, he's just slowing down, getting ready for birth! He was never a SUPER active little guy.. but still I DID notice the decrease in movement.. I remember thinking about it at a friends party the friday night before he was born (born on a monday/tuesday 1am) and then I felt him hiccup, and friends felt him.. and I felt so relieved! The weekend was busy, we went to the orchard, I kept poking at my stomach all day, but I'm sure I felt him at some point that day.. but still it took all day monday, and my husband saying lets go to the hospital befoe I'd do anything! I wonder if I knew what the outcome would be and didn't want to REALLY know.. I still wonder if I had really paid attention and not though everything would be fine (stillbirths don't happen to ME, right?) I would have gone in on Friday and maybe he'd be here?? I dont' think like that often, because it's kind of a useless thought. I don't feel much guilt, but sometimes it's there.. mostly beacause I'm his mom, I should have known something was wrong!

 

[namaste_mom]

(((huGS))) for both you mammas. It is so normal to question every little detail. I felt guilty for not recognizing Norah died for at least a year. Only recently have I let it go. I too hoped she was not in pain. I played those days over and over and over again in mt head at night especially. What helped a lot was for me to keep a journal to Norah pouring out all of my emotions to her -- pain, grief, sadness, joy, anger, everything.

 

[Amy&4girls]

I'm so sorry you are going through this. I went through all this when I lost my son. It took me several years to let most of it go. I will admit that it still comes and goes though. I agree that writing out ALL of your thoughts/feelings to your baby helps you to deal w/them. I am just so very sorry you are facing this now.

 

[NullSet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MI_Dawn Was I rejoicing in that moment, in that movement, at the moment of his death? I know it's sick, morbid, horrible... and I'll never know... but I think it. I can't deny I'm entertaining the thought.

It's been a while for me but this haunts me still. I had the same flurry of movement. For me it was Weds night as I fell asleep with dh and my hands on my belly. I do the same thing, wondering whether I was feeling her die. God, you all are getting me to write things I have never written. Such a raw feeling to open this up again, but it isn't something I have talked about at all, only thought. And then the next morning she was gone. It was such a short time, I was in the OB's office by 11 am that morning. I had gone to bed around 2 a.m. so a span of 9 hours.

My inlaws were staying with us that Weds night too and I remember making a joke about old wives tales and about not raising your arms. Of course I waved my arms around only to have her die in the night.

 

[SMR]

Amy
I think it's good to get it out, even now.

 

[JayJay]

I do to some extent, but I cut myself off when I start to get too worried about what might have been, you know? If I had a time machine, things would be different, yes, sure, but I don't. Had we all been in hospital, the outcome would probably have been the same anyway, since all the signs I had were normal labor signs, and we had a strong heartbeat almost to the end. Nobody knew - the bleed was all concealed. The only way would have been to ave someone come back from the future and say "hey, something isn't right here even though everything is within normal parameters".

No possible though. Plus gosh, you know and I know that all of us would have saved our babies, had we had any idea what was going on. That goes without saying! That goes without saying.

Now I am left wondering though, if I am "okay" inside and can have another baby. I don't think I will believe that I can, really, until I see another positive pregnancy test. I still have all of Josie's in my desk drawer right in front of me. They were so unbelievable that I had to take many just to make myself believe.

I hope I get that chance again...

*HUGE hugs* to you mama - you're not unusual in any way. You're a good mama. XXXXXXX

 

[MI_Dawn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayJay Now I am left wondering though, if I am "okay" inside and can have another baby. I don't think I will believe that I can, really, until I see another positive pregnancy test. I still have all of Josie's in my desk drawer right in front of me. They were so unbelievable that I had to take many just to make myself believe. I hope I get that chance again...

I hope you do, too.

: I still have William's pg test in my night table drawer, too, actually. I had a loss (was barely pg, faint line, then bled, but still) the cycle before him, and was sooo thrilled that these were positively darkly positive!

My MW told me, after she lost her baby to SIDS at 8 wks, that it was having another baby that really helped to heal her completely. (Well, as "completely" as it gets...) It seems to be a natural response... women who lose a baby like this seem to want another baby NOW. I actually angrily thought that, as I was watching three nurses and an u/s tech look at my dead baby on the screen... I knew what they were going to tell me, although they hadn't told me yet, and I had the conscious thought. "Forget this, I'm having another one!" I hadn't even had the time to register that the baby was gone or begin to feel his loss... I just knew I wanted a BABY. My body wanted it. Now, thankyouverymuch. And if (insert higher power here) was going to take that from me, I was going to defy them and have another.

I know it was just a reaction... but I was really surprised to read stillbirth stories and hear women say they felt the same, very soon after they found out the baby was gone. Most of them were entertaining it long before they opened their mouths and voiced that longing.

I thank god my body will hold me back from impulsively acting... because I know, making that decision now, and three months from now, will come from a totally different place...

 

[SMR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MI_Dawn I hope you do, too. : I still have William's pg test in my night table drawer, too, actually. I had a loss (was barely pg, faint line, then bled, but still) the cycle before him, and was sooo thrilled that these were positively darkly positive! My MW told me, after she lost her baby to SIDS at 8 wks, that it was having another baby that really helped to heal her completely. (Well, as "completely" as it gets...) It seems to be a natural response... women who lose a baby like this seem to want another baby NOW. I actually angrily thought that, as I was watching three nurses and an u/s tech look at my dead baby on the screen... I knew what they were going to tell me, although they hadn't told me yet, and I had the conscious thought. "Forget this, I'm having another one!" I hadn't even had the time to register that the baby was gone or begin to feel his loss... I just knew I wanted a BABY. My body wanted it. Now, thankyouverymuch. And if (insert higher power here) was going to take that from me, I was going to defy them and have another. I know it was just a reaction... but I was really surprised to read stillbirth stories and hear women say they felt the same, very soon after they found out the baby was gone. Most of them were entertaining it long before they opened their mouths and voiced that longing. I thank god my body will hold me back from impulsively acting... because I know, making that decision now, and three months from now, will come from a totally different place...

I knew too Dawn. Before Dresden was even taken from my body, I was asking the midwife when we can try again. I think it's the only thing you can do to feel proactive - like you have control over something at the time. When she told me that for the 'best' outcome I should wait 18 months between births.. I knew then and there that I could NOT wait 9 months just to TRY! I had one period and got pregnant a little over 3 months after Dresden was born.. this baby shares his due date! Amazing.

 

[mischievium]

I'm struggling with the desire to be pregnant RIGHT NOW, too. The practical part of me knows how long nine months feels (and can guess how much longer it's going to feel next time due to my added anxiety) and just wants to get the show on the road already. I think a piece of that is having dealt with infertility, I am afraid that I won't get pregnant as easily as I did last time (we conceived on our first IUI/ Clomid cycle). I'm afraid it's going to take several cycles, or possibly IVF this time. It's going to be a bit before my DH is ready to try again-- seeing me have a seizure out of "nowhere" really scared him. But, I think that being pregnant again will be an important part of my healing and finding hope again. While I recognize that waiting a few months to let my body heal and find out whether there are any "reasons" for the late-term loss (I think there is blood work I have to wait until 6wks postpartum to do), it's not going to be easy for me to wait much longer than that.

My DH and a grief counselor at the hopsital both mentioned needing to come up with a "game plan" for the next several months. Well, having Soren was my "game plan." We had just bought our first house and moved and I got pregnant within days of being here. I decided not to get a job because I really didn't want to start a new job while dealing with morning sickness and, being an RN, I didn't want to have to try and learn a whole new unit and their policies and rationales for why they do things the way they do only to go on maternity leave as soon as I had learned it all. Now, I don't really know what I'm going to do. I can't see going back to the NICU right now. I can't take care of other people's babies when I really just want to be taking care of my own. And, yet, staying home alone all day is not going to be good for me either.

Sorry this veered off-topic quite a bit.

 

[SMR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mischievium I'm struggling with the desire to be pregnant RIGHT NOW, too. The practical part of me knows how long nine months feels (and can guess how much longer it's going to feel next time due to my added anxiety) and just wants to get the show on the road already. I think a piece of that is having dealt with infertility, I am afraid that I won't get pregnant as easily as I did last time (we conceived on our first IUI/ Clomid cycle). I'm afraid it's going to take several cycles, or possibly IVF this time. It's going to be a bit before my DH is ready to try again-- seeing me have a seizure out of "nowhere" really scared him. But, I think that being pregnant again will be an important part of my healing and finding hope again. While I recognize that waiting a few months to let my body heal and find out whether there are any "reasons" for the late-term loss (I think there is blood work I have to wait until 6wks postpartum to do), it's not going to be easy for me to wait much longer than that. My DH and a grief counselor at the hopsital both mentioned needing to come up with a "game plan" for the next several months. Well, having Soren was my "game plan." We had just bought our first house and moved and I got pregnant within days of being here. I decided not to get a job because I really didn't want to start a new job while dealing with morning sickness and, being an RN, I didn't want to have to try and learn a whole new unit and their policies and rationales for why they do things the way they do only to go on maternity leave as soon as I had learned it all. Now, I don't really know what I'm going to do. I can't see going back to the NICU right now. I can't take care of other people's babies when I really just want to be taking care of my own. And, yet, staying home alone all day is not going to be good for me either. Sorry this veered off-topic quite a bit.

I said the same thing.. "GET THE SHOW ON THE ROAD" 9 months is already SOOOO long.. I hated the thought of adding onto that. I hope you get pregnant again easily. I had a friend who tried for 5 years, then got pregnant on clomid and just recently got pregnant her FIRST try with no drugs!!

 

[MI_Dawn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mischievium I can't see going back to the NICU right now. I can't take care of other people's babies when I really just want to be taking care of my own.

eek. I can't imagine.

I'm not sure it's a good idea to put that in the "game plan." Game plan. Feh. My current game plan involves getting out of bed and taking a shower at some point during each day and that's... about... it. How in the heck are you supposed to make a "game plan" in this state? I can't even remember how to brush my damned teeth.

As for veering, hey, it was your thread, veer away...

 

[jess_paez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MI_Dawn eek. I can't imagine. I'm not sure it's a good idea to put that in the "game plan." Game plan. Feh. My current game plan involves getting out of bed and taking a shower at some point during each day and that's... about... it. How in the heck are you supposed to make a "game plan" in this state? I can't even remember how to brush my damned teeth. As for veering, hey, it was your thread, veer away...

oh yes, i remember those days. i woke up (because i just couldn't sleep any longer-it was 2 or 3 pm or LATER) and i showered, dressed and went to the wine store. thank the higher power i was able to have the house cleaned and the laundry done. that was all a part of keepin' busy i suppose...........oh boy,....hard times.

 

[expatmommy]

I hear you on the whole game plan thing. We just moved and 3 weeks later I found out I was pregnant. I didn't know a soul. My plan for the 2 years we are supposed to live here were: get pregnant & take care of a newborn. How do you sort out a game plan when your perfect plans are shattered and you have no other reference point? I'm 2 months into this journey & it is very hard. The first month I did not much more then try to sleep & try to eat & try not to alienate my other kids by my total lack of ability to be a present parent. And I read, read, read; knowing other people had walked the same path & not fallen apart completely was bolstering.

 

[mischievium]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MI_Dawn eek. I can't imagine. I'm not sure it's a good idea to put that in the "game plan." Game plan. Feh. My current game plan involves getting out of bed and taking a shower at some point during each day and that's... about... it. How in the heck are you supposed to make a "game plan" in this state? I can't even remember how to brush my damned teeth.

Thank you! And then yesterday I went for a follow-up appt. with the perinatologist who took care of me in the hospital and her nurse, who was in general very nice and caring, started asking me what I was doing with my days while I was standing at the counter making another appointment. I explained that I hadn't been working since we moved here and there was no way I could go back to the NICU and my only other interests in medicine would be in L&D, postpartum, etc., but there was no way I could do any of that right now. She got that, but said, "Well, it's not going to be good for you to sit around all day." Maybe some of the anger is starting to kick in, but it really took every ounce of civility I had not to respond, "No, $hit."

Quote:

Originally Posted by jess_paez oh yes, i remember those days. i woke up (because i just couldn't sleep any longer-it was 2 or 3 pm or LATER) and i showered, dressed and went to the wine store. thank the higher power i was able to have the house cleaned and the laundry done. that was all a part of keepin' busy i suppose...........oh boy,....hard times.

I'm struggling with the sleeping, too. It's just so temping to sleep as long as I possibly can, so there are fewer hours in the day to try and figure out what to do with. Fewer hours to be sad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by expatmommy I hear you on the whole game plan thing. We just moved and 3 weeks later I found out I was pregnant. I didn't know a soul. My plan for the 2 years we are supposed to live here were: get pregnant & take care of a newborn. How do you sort out a game plan when your perfect plans are shattered and you have no other reference point? I'm 2 months into this journey & it is very hard. The first month I did not much more then try to sleep & try to eat & try not to alienate my other kids by my total lack of ability to be a present parent. And I read, read, read; knowing other people had walked the same path & not fallen apart completely was bolstering.

Exactly. I don't even know where to start. I don't feel like I'm really fit to be around anyone other than friends or family so that I don't have to explain myself. What do I tell people I don't know now when they ask what I do for a living? I can't really explain the gap in employment without explaining about Soren and I'm just not ready to talk about it with people I don't know.

 

[SMR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mischievium Thank you! And then yesterday I went for a follow-up appt. with the perinatologist who took care of me in the hospital and her nurse, who was in general very nice and caring, started asking me what I was doing with my days while I was standing at the counter making another appointment. I explained that I hadn't been working since we moved here and there was no way I could go back to the NICU and my only other interests in medicine would be in L&D, postpartum, etc., but there was no way I could do any of that right now. She got that, but said, "Well, it's not going to be good for you to sit around all day." Maybe some of the anger is starting to kick in, but it really took every ounce of civility I had not to respond, "No, $hit." I'm struggling with the sleeping, too. It's just so temping to sleep as long as I possibly can, so there are fewer hours in the day to try and figure out what to do with. Fewer hours to be sad. Exactly. I don't even know where to start. I don't feel like I'm really fit to be around anyone other than friends or family so that I don't have to explain myself. What do I tell people I don't know now when they ask what I do for a living? I can't really explain the gap in employment without explaining about Soren and I'm just not ready to talk about it with people I don't know.

Just take it easy.. right now you don't need a plan.. I remember how hard it was for me to see people I wasn't close with right after Dresden died. I dreaded seeing the neighbors.. who were no doubt wondering where we were going WITH NO baby!? Try spending some time outside, just in nature... it's so peaceful, it helped me a lot in the early days.

 

[MI_Dawn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mischievium Exactly. I don't even know where to start. I don't feel like I'm really fit to be around anyone other than friends or family so that I don't have to explain myself. What do I tell people I don't know now when they ask what I do for a living? I can't really explain the gap in employment without explaining about Soren and I'm just not ready to talk about it with people I don't know.

I keep hearing that term, "Be gentle with yourself." It always sounded strange to me before, but now I get it. I feel really, really fragile. And I think we are. Everything hurts... it's like our nerve endings are on the outside and everything rubs the wrong way. It's that way for anyone grieving anything, but when you add the hormones of birth, and after birth!? Come on! How are we supposed to resume "normal life" when we're in this state? Seriously?

My sister called me today, and she said, Well when you said you would come for Easter, I knew you were ready to move into accepting what happened, and you'd be okay.

WTH? Are you kidding me? Acceptance? I'm so far from acceptance on the Kubler-Ross continuum, it's little more than a mirage on the horizon.

The last thing, the very last thing, I need is any pressure to do anything right now. Okay, sitting around doing nothing is a bad idea, and I've managed to find things... like reading stories and blogs and books by mamas who have gone through this, and that's been so helpful. But sometimes... sometimes sitting around all day crying is all you can do. Sometimes there are gonna be those days.

All I can say is, trust your body, trust your process. Let things unfold. Don't let anyone convince you that you need to do anything. I think if you let yourself be... if you really are gentle with yourself... what you want to do will come. In time.

 

[philomom]

I called it the "what if?" game. It does take a long time to stop wondering how things could be different.

Hugs,

Philomom