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And RFK Jr is going to chair a special commission on vaccines & scientific integrity. This is exciting!

Sus
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/10/trump-vaccine-critic-robert-f-kennedy-jr/

Washington Post

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...cdb4b7f8dd7_story.html?utm_term=.bcb76601e993

“That’s very frightening; it’s difficult to imagine anyone less qualified to serve on a commission for vaccine science,” said Peter Hotez, dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine and president of the Sabin Vaccine Institute, a nonprofit that works to control, treat and eliminate vaccine-preventable and neglected tropical diseases.

“The science is clear: Massive evidence showing no link between vaccines and autism, and as both a scientist who develops vaccines for poverty-related neglected diseases and the father of an adult daughter with autism, there’s not even any plausibility for a link,” Hotez continued. “Autism is a genetic condition.”

“Our nation’s public health will suffer if this nascent neo-antivaxxer movement is not stopped immediately,” he added.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

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Think of all of the vaccine fanatics, tapping away frantically at their keyboards...
 
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Mostly taking a break but....that was fast. From CNN:

"Trump team denies skeptic Robert F. Kennedy Jr. was asked to head vaccine commission" http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/10/polit...jr-donald-trump-vaccine-commission/index.html

So either Kennedy lied (possible) or Trump backpedaled after strong criticism from the media, organizations like the AAP who already made a statement about it, autism organizations, Gates foundation, etc (the more likely scenario IMO since this is a pattern of his).

Also worth reading "What Trump can — and can’t — do to change vaccine policy" https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/10/trump-vaccines/

The recommendations about which vaccines children should receive and when they should get them are developed by an advisory panel of scientists, called the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, under the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. This is different from the panel Kennedy will chair. Trump has no power to order the ACIP to make recommendations that are not based in evidence.

Trump certainly can fill his administration with like-minded staffers who could steer agencies like the CDC in a new direction. But keep in mind: He can’t just fill the ACIP with vaccine doubters. Members are chosen through a rigorous nomination process. And the makeup of the scientific advisory committee on vaccines doesn’t turn over with the start of a new administration; vacancies are staggered, as they are in the US Senate.
The point about ACIP advisor positions being staggered is an important one. It's not like all the current members just get replaced when Trump takes office. It then points out other things I've already said about this, like that Trump has no control over state vaccination policies as those are determined at the individual state level. Obama had no power or control over what happened in California re SB277, for example.
 

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If it happens it will mean a democrat and republican working together (would Trump appointment a democrat to do anything?). Is Trump capable of non-partisan politics (genuine question)?
 
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From The Post article:

“The President-elect is exploring the possibility of forming a commission on autism, which affects so many families; however no decisions have been made at this time.

“The President-elect looks forward to continuing the discussion about all aspects of autism with many groups and individuals,” she added."


I sincerely hope so.
 
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Well, that must be a relief. Heaven forbid that there should be a real public discussion on vaccine safety.
We need an actual expert in either vaccines or autism to have a "real" discussion. Kennedy is a lawyer. He has zero expertise in either autism or vaccines.

Funny how members here dismiss Dorit because she is "just" a legal expert, but are supportive and all for RFK heading a "vaccine safety" commission despite not having any expertise in vaccines, medicine, or autism. Interesting double standard I am going to be sure to bring up any time Dorit's non-expertise in medicine is brought up :)
 

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We need an actual expert in either vaccines or autism to have a "real" discussion. Kennedy is a lawyer. He has zero expertise in either autism or vaccines.

Funny how members here dismiss Dorit because she is "just" a legal expert, but are supportive and all for RFK heading a "vaccine safety" commission despite not having any expertise in vaccines, medicine, or autism. Interesting double standard I am going to be sure to bring up any time Dorit's non-expertise in medicine is brought up :)
Nope. Any human beings can have a real discussion about vaccine safety.

At this point, we've got two widely divided possibilities on the safety and value of vaccines.

1) Vaccines are so safe, so effective and so wonderful that all discussion (except by pro-vaccine experts) has to be totally shut down. No one, not even doctors or scientists or environmental experts or parents or lawyers can be allowed to criticize any aspect of vaccines. The end.

2) Vaccines are a mess. There are a lot of people with vaccine injuries, there is a lot of vaccine failures, there is a lot of bad science being used to protect the vaccine program. The demands for censorship are getting louder and louder because any open discussion of the problems will demolish faith in the vaccine program as it currently stands and will also destroy a lot of careers.

Frankly, the frantic attempts to avoid any open discussion of the problems with vaccines (and there are some real problems, honest), really make it look as though someone is scared.

Open discussion would be no threat at all to the vaccine program if there was nothing to hide.
 

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We need an actual expert in either vaccines or autism to have a "real" discussion. Kennedy is a lawyer. He has zero expertise in either autism or vaccines.

Funny how members here dismiss Dorit because she is "just" a legal expert, but are supportive and all for RFK heading a "vaccine safety" commission despite not having any expertise in vaccines, medicine, or autism. Interesting double standard I am going to be sure to bring up any time Dorit's non-expertise in medicine is brought up :)
Sometimes it is legit to dismiss Dorit and sometimes it isn't. It really depends on the context of what she is discussing.

It is common for heads of political commissions/departments not to be experts in the topic they are heading. They are often politicians - and what they really should be experts in is assembling the correct parties, administration, being transparent and accountable, etc. Kennedy is not going to be performing the studies himself.
 

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Sometimes it is legit to dismiss Dorit and sometimes it isn't. It really depends on the context of what she is discussing.

It is common for heads of political commissions/departments not experts in the topic they are heading. They are often politicians - and what they really should be experts in is assembling the correct parties, administration, being transparent and accountable, etc. Kennedy is not going to be performing the studies himself.
Yes. Plus, of course, Kennedy is eminently qualified to lead a discussion of policy issues, for example political and regulatory corruption.

There has been a lot of criticism of the CDC over the last several years.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/cdc-atack-air-containment-problems/story?id=16557248
http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-cdc-mistakes-20140711-story.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/18/opinion/joe-nocera-failures-of-competence.html?_r=0
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...s-fuel-concerns-safety-transparency/84978860/
http://www.topsecretwriters.com/2011/11/tragic-failures-of-the-center-for-disease-control/
Other cases of CDC failure are based on their refusal to act on the information that they have, affecting the lives of many thousands of people that otherwise could have been helped.
Consider the case where the CDC had data showing the rise of drug-resistant infections over the course of 30 years. What did they do with this data?
Apparently, nothing. The CDC felt no need to recommend that hospitals test incoming patients for MSRA, or try to improve their cleaning practices to prevent the spread of this antibiotic-resistant superbug. (4)
A simple screening for this bacteria, along with more careful treatment procedures for those that test positive, would have protected millions from picking up MSRA at the hospitals where patients go to get better, but end up getting sicker.
Yet, the CDC ignored this simple solution, instead telling hospitals not to bother with testing.
I'm sure I could find more.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Here is an interview with RFK Jr conducted after the meeting

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017...-jr-meeting-trump-proposed-vaccine-commission

You said that the commission is to delve into “vaccine safety and scientific integrity.” What is that second piece about?

To make sure that we’re getting good science out of CDC.

It’s all about CDC? It’s not about “scientific integrity” in chemistry or physics or basic biology or anywhere else?

Exactly. [CDC] is the locus of most of the most serious problems with the vaccine program, the two divisions at CDC: the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices and the Immunization Safety Office which is where the scientists are.
and more on the Commission

How many people will be on the commission?

A dozen people -- a mix between science people and prominent Americans.

Who will you ask to serve?

I couldn’t tell you. I just finished meeting with the President-elect an hour ago.

When you say “science people,” do you mean experts from the scientific establishment?

Prominent scientists.

Do you mean prominent vaccinologists who believe in the safety and efficacy of today’s vaccines?

We are going to look for people who have expertise in toxicology, epidemiology and in public health.
He goes into a lot of detail if he was making this all up.
 

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I suppose Trump could have asked someone from the CDC to investigate themselves but I hear they are too busy crying in the hallways and eating bagels. :serious:

Are the provaxxers absolutely happy with vaccines and the process for determining safety or do they think there are areas that could be improved? If there are areas that could be improved then that would suggest that what has been done to date isn't conducive to affecting those improvements. Time for change.

Transparency and balance will be key here. I think there should be immunologists and virologists as well on this committee: Just not those who held/hold patents for vaccines or serve/d on the boards of pharmaceutical companies or are representatives of pharmaceutical companies. I also think a consumer advocate should be present.

Kennedy says he is pro-vaccine. He said he has vaccinated all his children. Kennedy is not trying to stop vaccination, he is trying to rid them of neurotoxins. I really don't understand why pro-vaxxers would continue to defend the neurotoxins in vaccines.
 

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In a post-Trump meeting interview, Kennedy concedes that he is not a scientist and not an expert in science. He's also not an expert in autism, vaccines, or medicine of any kind. He is not qualified to head any kind of official government "vaccine safety" commission.

If Hillary had put Dorit as head of a vaccine safety commission, people here would have a total conniption about how she isn't professionally qualified to run such a program. Come on now.
 
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