[nabigus]

(Forgive the long post, but for the sake of clarity...)

So my beloved ds is just turning a year, and we need to reevaluate some sleep issues. We're reading the NCSS and have looked at Jay Gordon's webpage, but here's the problem:

It's not the nightwaking/frequent nursing we're having problems with. Ds sleeps for a good 6 hour chunk, so I can't complain. But getting him to sleep in the first place?? Nightmare. And every now and then (like last night) he'll wake up and be WIDE AWAKE for two hours in the middle of the night.

Right now I'm nursing him to sleep in a mei tai or wrap, then putting him down when he's conked. If I don't wait until he's well and truly out of it (ie, none of this "put him down while he's still awake" business for us), he flips over, grins, and is up as long as we don't put him back in a carrier. We've tried waiting him out: no go. He was up until 4 am at one point, getting progressively more frantic and unhappy, not sleepy. We've tried taking walks outside, with 50/50 success. And the only way to keep ds lying down while I gently rubbed his back would be in a straightjacket.

Dh transitions to full-time work (after being a student) this fall, I need to crank on my school work, and ds will be with a nanny and one other toddler. We CANNOT have the same nap routine we have had, and we'll no longer have the flexibility to go with ds's flow in the middle of the night, or the option of going back to bed for a nap.

So two problems: nighttime and naps:
We have an early bedtime (7:30-ish), a bedtime routine, a dark room, white noise, etc. Ds has been nursing to sleep, then seemingly by force of will jerking himself awake just as I'm thinking about putting him down. The going to bed process is taking upwards of 2 hours. Don't get me wrong, I love nursing and cuddling. But we just can't do this much longer.

For naps, I'm VERY worried about our new sitter getting two toddlers to sleep, particularly since the other child is a little older and taking one nap, not two, each day.

Help! Anyone BTDT with a very active baby who fights sleep, flips over, etc? I'm really scared about the coming weeks.

 

[momtoNatalee]

: b/c this sounds alot like my dd and she is almost a yr. Except she still wakes every hr or so to nurse. And then rolls around and tries to sit up everytime she wakes up. I have to keep shaking the bed as hard as I can to get her back to sleep

And for us it takes around an hr to get her to sleep (if we just go get in the together and I don't actually rock her) So I am curious to hear some responces

 

[mom2owen1]

my ds will respond like this if i try to put him to bed before he is ready. 7:30 sounds like it might be too early. have you tried adjusting bedtime? waiting until he shows signs of being tired? or does he do this that early?

my other thought is that maybe he is transitioning to one nap instead of two. i think right around a year is common for a lot of babes. my ds went down to one at 11 months.

try not to worry about the nanny getting him to sleep. i am constantly surprised about how babies and kids react with different people. for example, my nephew was in a home daycare. the daycare provider could get him to nap in a pack n play with no rocking, no pacifier, (and no crying). however, when at home it was impossible to get him to sleep without rocking and 3 pacifiers (one for his mouth and one for each hand). it is amazing how they respond to different situations!

 

[JennP]

I would not worry too much about the nanny and naps, when dd went to daycare they assured me that everyday she went down for naps without fussing and she was one of the best sleepers, falling asleep and staying asleep. Let me just tell you that was not how it was at home. She was up all night nursing and for naps always wanted me to sleep with her. They do grow out of needing you 100% of the time to nap.

Ds will figure out that the nanny won't nurse him and with that he will probably not 'fight' nap. Sometimes I think that nursing is used to avoid sleep just like my dd (2 1/2 yrs) uses going to the bathroom, one more story, music, ect to not have to nap right then.

Good luck, we never figured out the nighttime routine so I can't help you with that.

JennP

A short message from dd:
yyyyyyyyyyyyydggggggggggggggggggggggggg

:

:

 

[mamak05]

My dd (11 mos) is also a sleep fighter on occasion. It seems to happen most when she is mastering a new skill (and when isn't she?!) or didn't nap well during the day. We use a routine of bath/shower, massage, maybe a book and nurse that seems to work well for us. She seems responsive to the sunlight, so going to bed when it is too light out sort of sets us up for her to wake up an hour later thinking she had a nap. I generally try to respond very quickly to settle her down again when she does wake up. When all else fails, a 10 minute car ride with her favorite CD seems to work - something about the dark, the motion etc, just helps her turn off her active mind! (Car ride is a last resort and only happens if DH or I are awake enought to drive safely). Last night at midnight, I was rocking her in my sling

.

 

[flapjack]

Another lurker. LMK if you find a magic wand.

What I will say, though, is that if I'm out at work Skye will wait until she's tired, ask daddy to pick her up, cuddle him for a few minutes and then crawl off to "my" corner of the sofa, put her head on the cushion and fall asleep for a nap. No nursing, no battles. Its unbelievable (he videoed it for me, this isn't CIO.) So he'll find something that works for him at the sitters, even though he'll keep driving you nuts.

 

[awnja]

Again, they do things differently with a sitter, so I agree - don't worry about that. And I agree that this is a good time to switch to one nap around noon. And also that maybe an 8 or 9:00 bedtime might work better - especially in the summer. When I am sitting little ones at nap time and its not working and everyone is getting tired and cranky, we go for a stroller ride or a walk in the sling (depending on how many kids, sometimes both). That does the trick everytime. So you could suggest that. But my dd has been able to go to sleep for a sitter when they just say, "You lay down, I'll be right back." And I'm a stay-at-him mom so that's very different for her.

The rub back thing? That worked after she turned two and started demading to do things by herself. I started telling her she could go to sleep *by herself* too and asked if I could give her a back rub after she nursed. But until she was verbal... yea, same thing: bwaaa haa ha! But then dd never read any of those parenting books so she didn't know how it was supposed to work.

Julie

 

[nabigus]

Thanks for all the replies--it's good to know we're not struggling alone.

Yes, ds hasn't read the baby books either, I fear.

Follow-up question on moving to one nap: right now, ds NEEDS to sleep about 3 hours after he wakes up. He gives all the classic signs (rubbing eyes, tugging his ear, yawning, getting fussy, etc), and the morning nap is the one he goes down (usually) easily for. No way could I keep him up until noon unless I wanted a monsterously unhappy baby on my hands. Then he shows all the tired signs again about three hours after he gets up from nap #2, usually around 2 or 2:30. I'm really reluctant to "force" him down to one nap when he's "saying" he needs two.

We might try the later bedtime, though, and see if that helps. I think for him it's fighting sleep rather than not being ready to sleep, though, since he'll have his eyes closed, be almost out, then jerk awake and start crying.

Siiiiiigh. I would so love a magic wand right about now.

 

[Viriditas]

Yeah, ds (8.5 mo) would never stand for being put down before he was asleep. Since he was a newborn there's only one way he'll go to sleep: bouncing on the ball. He's never liked rocking. If we don't have the ball we can walk him, but it takes longer and he will fight it. Bedtime is around 8:00. It used to be later, but we find he sleeps better and it doesn't take as long to get him to sleep if we catch him before he's overtired. We (usually) have a bath, a massage, some books, then nurse and bounce to sleep. Sometimes he will stir as I'm putting him down, then he will usually nurse back to sleep but sometimes we have to go back on the ball. Bedtime is NEVER totally pleasant. There is always some fussing and crying/resisting at some point.

It usually takes 15-20 minutes of bouncing/nursing to get him to sleep. 10min on good nights. The whole routine is between 45min and 1 hour.

Lately I've been finding that he will want to nurse while we're bouncing to avoid sleep (like JennP mentioned). In this case I'll usually hand him off to daddy. He protests at first, but falls asleep much more quickly.

Anyhoo, just wanted to chime in. I've got a sleep-fighter too.

 

[momtoNatalee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nabigus Follow-up question on moving to one nap: right now, ds NEEDS to sleep about 3 hours after he wakes up. He gives all the classic signs (rubbing eyes, tugging his ear, yawning, getting fussy, etc), and the morning nap is the one he goes down (usually) easily for. No way could I keep him up until noon unless I wanted a monsterously unhappy baby on my hands. Then he shows all the tired signs again about three hours after he gets up from nap #2, usually around 2 or 2:30. I'm really reluctant to "force" him down to one nap when he's "saying" he needs two.

This is exactly us right now. She starts to get tired about 3 hrs after she wakes up from her first(just like your ds). So that puts it at about 3 for us. Then we usually start the bedtime routine around 8:30, in bed by 9 then another 30 min - 1hr for her to fall asleep. Everytime during those 30 min-1 hr , I am like tomorrow I am skipping her afternoon nap. Then tomorrow comes and she "needs" thats 2nd nap, kwim?

So I was talking w/ a friend that seem to knows alot about infant sleep. She understands alot more than I do the philosophy of it. She asked me if I tried putting her down for the night at 5:30. And she knows we co-sleep so she said either put her to bed before me and then get into bed later or go to bed together. And she should still wake up in the same time in the morn(yes, after rolling over to nurse every hr or 2 at night, well I didn't tell her dd does that

Anyway, then each night go to bed a litte later and then a little later and eventually she will be ready to go to bed the same time I do. This was her suggestion from going from 2 naps to 1 (if I thought Natalee was ready)

But going to bed at 5:30 is sooo unrealistic for us, that is when dh gets home then we eat etc... and he said that is his only him w/ dd and that I cannot do that etc... etc....

So not sure if this is making any sense. Anyone have any thoughts?

 

[Voltige]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nabigus Follow-up question on moving to one nap: right now, ds NEEDS to sleep about 3 hours after he wakes up. He gives all the classic signs (rubbing eyes, tugging his ear, yawning, getting fussy, etc), and the morning nap is the one he goes down (usually) easily for. No way could I keep him up until noon unless I wanted a monsterously unhappy baby on my hands. Then he shows all the tired signs again about three hours after he gets up from nap #2, usually around 2 or 2:30. I'm really reluctant to "force" him down to one nap when he's "saying" he needs two.

This is my 11 month old. Exactly!! We started pushing his bedtime to 8:30 about 3 weeks ago though- and he will make it until then now. Used to be 7 or 7:30. We started eating dinner later, to keep him busy and happy during a usually fussy time. Then a bath. . . . etc. But yea, he still needs 2 naps.

 

[blessedwithboys]

didnt read every post, but my btdt is that my ds2 had almost the exact same problem. he is going to be evaluated for a sleep disorder, and so is his older bro, who has different, but equally aggravating sleep issues. just a thought.

 

[momtoNatalee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by momtoNatalee So I was talking w/ a friend that seem to knows alot about infant sleep. She understands alot more than I do the philosophy of it. She asked me if I tried putting her down for the night at 5:30. And she knows we co-sleep so she said either put her to bed before me and then get into bed later or go to bed together. And she should still wake up in the same time in the morn(yes, after rolling over to nurse every hr or 2 at night, well I didn't tell her dd does that Anyway, then each night go to bed a litte later and then a little later and eventually she will be ready to go to bed the same time I do. This was her suggestion from going from 2 naps to 1 (if I thought Natalee was ready) But going to bed at 5:30 is sooo unrealistic for us, that is when dh gets home then we eat etc... and he said that is his only him w/ dd and that I cannot do that etc... etc.... So not sure if this is making any sense. Anyone have any thoughts?

Any thoughts about this?

 

[annarosa]

my dd was a real sleep fighter - to be honest I have never figured out exactly why or even how to best handle it - except that a rock steady nightime routine really did help a lot, as did lots of play outside in the afternoon
otherwise it was a matter or just waiting her out and nursing a lot - it used to drive me mad but that was just due to 2 years of sleep deprivation !
I think that temperament played a bit part and also the fact that she enjoyed nursing semi-asleep so much - she could do it for hours and then jerk awake the moment I tried to put her down, unlatch etc.
I think that accomodating your lifestyle as much as possible will really help you to feel better about it rather than actually changing the facts - ie. somehow come to terms with it taking so long and use the mental time to your advantage rather than laying there getting aggravated and ragged ....
good luck

 

[themamamama]

Hmm, yes, my 11mo son is doing the same thing. Must be the age.

Usually, we rock/bounce and sing until he gets sleepy and requests to nurse (by latching onto my face

), then he nurses to sleep. Last night, we'd bounce, he'd ask to nurse, we'd lie down, then he'd bite me and crawl away giggling, then we get up again and repeat the whole process. Sigh. And I used to be able to make DH do the bouncing and I'd take over when he was ready to nurse, but lately the separation anxiety is so bad, even his papa won't do -- has to be me. Sigh again.

So, no advice, but gosh I'd like a magic sleepy wand too (I'm a student too and really could be using the time to study for my qualifier... um, speaking of which...back to work).

- Melanie