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I am American born and bred but lived in Europe for most of my early 20's. My husband is European and of course our son is intact. Since my son was born I have been plagued with the nagging feeling we have to go back. I feel sort of bad about it actually. We've made some lovely friends and have a great life. We would have to start over again with jobs and house prices are crazy. All the usual issues of living in a cheap US city versus an expensive European one.<br><br>
The topic of circumcision only came up a few times prior to me getting pregnant or wanting to be pregnant. I do benefits at work and people talked to me about insurance coverage. One man was horrified the insurance wouldn't cover it for his 10 year old son. He well and truly wanted it for cosmetic reasons 'because no woman will want to sleep with him' (he comes from a country that does it when the boys are around 8). I said that's ridiculous, people from all over the world aren't done and women are just fine, European ones for example. He said 'your husband is European isn't he?' OK so it go embarassing from there and I think in the end he got a 401 loan for it but I am not sure. I see him every day and wonder.<br><br>
The other one was a woman who was 12 weeks pregnant. The OB wanted her deductible and coinsurance up front (a disgrace for another thread) and included the circumcision even though they didn't know the sex! I told her it wasn't necesarry and I knew from experience it wasn't gross and she had no idea what she was talking about. Obviously didn't sway her.<br><br>
But those situations didn't bother me. I regarded them the way you do other things people do in different cultures. Like some people eat rice for breakfast. I don't but I don't have an opinion one way or the other.<br><br>
Along comes my pregnancy. I get educated about the subject and make the mistake of trying to share with women on the baby boards. Mostly with no success. I talk to people IRL, mostly with no luck. I hear people say over and over again 'it's gross' and all the stupid misconceptions that they are sure are true.<br><br>
My horrible EUREKA moment today was in relation to why I am ready to give up a lot to move back. How can I live in a place that so many of the people regard my husband, my sons, my male relatives, and lots of dear male friends as disgusting? And that their partners must be also for dealing with how gross it all is. How can I bear the ignorance that comes along with thinking it's perfectly ok to cut off a pefectly healthy body part of a brand new baby. A part of the baby's genitals EVEN! What sort of place is this that it's ok to do that? It's so accepted in the culture many have never even considered it. There is no education or informed consent and even my wonderful OB who said 'it's not medically necessary' still does them!<br><br>
How bizarre is it I am considered 'crunchy' for not thinking circ. is ok? OK so being a parent has led me down the road of crunch only in part to MDC, but in reality I am pretty mainstream, or at least was before my son was born.<br><br>
SO if you made it to the end of this, I also admit that there are lots of wonderful educated people who live here and I don't hate the US or anything. I know the national stats and that there is hope etc etc. It just makes me sad that it seems like everyone around me bar my Euro friends who live here have drank the pro-circumcision punch and it makes me want to throw up! big hugs to all you wonderful people out there who make me feel good that I am not alone. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/treehugger.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Treehugger">:
 

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I've never even been out of the US but I agree with you. It is asolutely horrible what we do to baby boys (well thank goodness not all of us) here. It is incredibly shameful. And will never understand how it caught on and I will never understand why it continues.
 

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Don't worry one day it will be banned and illegal!!! one little intact boy at a time. try not to worry to much but you are definatly not alone!!<br><br>
Welcome back the the states!! i hope you enjoy it here, (big change)
 

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My hubby has wanted to leave due to this backwards thinking and we were BOTH born and raised here. I agree, it is disheartening that so many people can't see how crazy their arguemnts are.
 

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You are definitely not alone!<br>
I was born here, but my family is European and all of them are of the mindset "why would anyone do that to a little boy?!" I never drank the pro-circ punch. When I read about their arguments during my pregnancy, I just plain old didn't get it. I feel horrible knowing that a lot of people would think my relatives or DS is "disgusting" but it still doesn't at all change my confidence in the decision I made for DS and any future DSs I may have.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I am American born and bred but lived in Europe for most of my early 20's. My husband is European and of course our son is intact. Since my son was born I have been plagued with the nagging feeling we have to go back. I feel sort of bad about it actually. We've made some lovely friends and have a great life. We would have to start over again with jobs and house prices are crazy. All the usual issues of living in a cheap US city versus an expensive European one.<br><br>
The topic of circumcision only came up a few times prior to me getting pregnant or wanting to be pregnant. I do benefits at work and people talked to me about insurance coverage. One man was horrified the insurance wouldn't cover it for his 10 year old son. He well and truly wanted it for cosmetic reasons 'because no woman will want to sleep with him' (he comes from a country that does it when the boys are around 8). I said that's ridiculous, people from all over the world aren't done and women are just fine, European ones for example. He said 'your husband is European isn't he?' OK so it go embarassing from there and I think in the end he got a 401 loan for it but I am not sure. I see him every day and wonder.<br><br>
The other one was a woman who was 12 weeks pregnant. The OB wanted her deductible and coinsurance up front (a disgrace for another thread) and included the circumcision even though they didn't know the sex! I told her it wasn't necesarry and I knew from experience it wasn't gross and she had no idea what she was talking about. Obviously didn't sway her.<br><br>
But those situations didn't bother me. I regarded them the way you do other things people do in different cultures. Like some people eat rice for breakfast. I don't but I don't have an opinion one way or the other.<br><br>
Along comes my pregnancy. I get educated about the subject and make the mistake of trying to share with women on the baby boards. Mostly with no success. I talk to people IRL, mostly with no luck. I hear people say over and over again 'it's gross' and all the stupid misconceptions that they are sure are true.<br><br>
My horrible EUREKA moment today was in relation to why I am ready to give up a lot to move back. How can I live in a place that so many of the people regard my husband, my sons, my male relatives, and lots of dear male friends as disgusting? And that their partners must be also for dealing with how gross it all is. How can I bear the ignorance that comes along with thinking it's perfectly ok to cut off a pefectly healthy body part of a brand new baby. A part of the baby's genitals EVEN! What sort of place is this that it's ok to do that? It's so accepted in the culture many have never even considered it. There is no education or informed consent and even my wonderful OB who said 'it's not medically necessary' still does them!<br><br>
How bizarre is it I am considered 'crunchy' for not thinking circ. is ok? OK so being a parent has led me down the road of crunch only in part to MDC, but in reality I am pretty mainstream, or at least was before my son was born.<br><br>
SO if you made it to the end of this, I also admit that there are lots of wonderful educated people who live here and I don't hate the US or anything. I know the national stats and that there is hope etc etc. It just makes me sad that it seems like everyone around me bar my Euro friends who live here have drank the pro-circumcision punch and it makes me want to throw up! big hugs to all you wonderful people out there who make me feel good that I am not alone. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/treehugger.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Treehugger">:</td>
</tr></table></div>
<br>
I know exactly how you feel. When I am older, I want to move out to California. I live in NYC, and I bet circ rates in my city are some of the highest in the country. I just hate the idea that so many people around me believe that the male body is more healthy with part of it cut off. Its so gross to think about. So I completely understand the idea of moving to a place where circumcision is not as common.
 

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I also can relate. I had a conversation w/ dh about how US thinks circ is normal and what insanity that is. DH wants to move to another country, but it's mainly due to lost faith in the government. While I doubt I'd want to leave my native country to be with people who don't normally circ for cultural reasons, I have thought about moving the the west coast so my son would have more intact peers. Maybe that's over-thinking things, or worrying about stuff that's way out of my control. But where I live, I'm pretty certain any mama who lives near me will have circumcised her sons and never thought it was outrageous to do so.<br>
Sometimes it just nice to be with other like minded people (which is probably why I like this message board so much!).
 

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But if we all left who would be around to be the voice of reason? Don't worry it will just take a little more time and logic. You know the story of the 100th monkey, right?
 

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The great thing about our country is it allows people to be diverse in thought and behavior.<br><br>
The bad thing about our country is it allows people to be diverse in thought and behavior.<br><br>
RIC is supported by irrational thought and an inability to thoughtfully think the issue through. It is mind boggling to me that this is still so ingrained and accepted.<br><br>
Whether leaving is the answer for you depends upon you and how you handle this mentally. I find many issues where people cannot think critically. I suspect that is true of people everywhere. Leaving or staying can good options.<br><br>
Regards
 

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You know, I really think that the "teasing" argument has been way overblown. My two sons grew up with intact penises at a time and in a place where that was very unusual, and they NEVER were teased about it. Nobody knew, and nobody CARED, that they were "uncircumcised." I certainly would never use this as a reason for leaving the U.S. The loss of freedom, the constant monitoring of us (have you noticed lately how cameras are appearing at all of the intersections attached near stoplights?), these are reasons for leaving. But that's another thread for another forum.
 
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