[catgirl1007]

DD had 2 of her friends (both 24 months old, DD is 22 months old) over for a regularly scheduled play date today. Both moms are pretty main stream. One of the little girls is the sweetest little thing. In the year or so that we've been having play dates, I've rarely noticed her throwing a tantrum, taking toys, crying, etc. She's really laid back.

So today this laid back little girl had a bit of a melt down b/c she wanted a toy that the other friend had. Big deal - all toddlers go through this and you, as a parent, figure out a compromise. That's not what happened. The mom of the laid back girl grabbed her, put her on our sofa, told her she was having a time out, then marched into our kitchen and set the oven timer for 2 minutes. The little girl cried and cried, and at one point got up and said, "Mommy, mommy". The mom came back, put her back on the couch and said, "NO, not until the timer goes off!!" When the timer went off (the longest 2 minutes I've experienced recently!) the mom went to the little girl, picked her up and said, "See, the timer is off and it's okay now" and then gave her a hug. Talk about sending mixed signals.

I felt so bad for this little girl. She is the sweetest little thing. I held DD on my lap while this was happening and just cuddled and kissed her. DD was so confused b/c her friend was crying alone.

What kind of mssg does this send to my DD? Will it confuse her if this continues to happen in front of her? In DD's worst moments I'd never consider letting her cry alone for 2 minutes!! I'm not perfect and I've had my share of exasperated moments, but this didn't feel right to me. Do I baby DD too much? These moms also blatantly ignore their DDs when they ask to be picked up when they're fussy crying.

 

[PortraitPixie]

My child has time outs...he cries...and I am not at bad mother.

:

I do agree that some comforting and explaining were warranted...but I think you can still be gentle and gently use time outs.

 

[catgirl1007]

I can see where some time out situations would be appropriate. I didn't like that the girl cried alone, the thing that lead to TO was not a biggie, asked for mommy and was shut down, and the "punishment" was never linked to the behavior. The mom wasn't even in the room when her DD was crying during the TO.

 

[mama2toomany]

i think its pretty young to get that point across......if i even tried a time out on my dd she would just scream the whole time... i thought time out was a reflection time thing? i could be wrong.. but see no point to letting a baby scream for no reason... redirection works good for us...

 

[Delacroix]

To me, the bad thing here is that this child is usually very mellow. You have to give children room to be human. If someone was all over me that way over an uncharacteristic lapse, I'd be so pissed.

:

Jeez. Why is it that some people expect small children to hold to standards that no adult could ever meet every minute of every day?

It's just wrong.

 

[abac]

I find in situations where I am uncertain how ds will be affected, it is best to pick him up and go for a short walk, even to another room, until the situation is resolved.

While I personally don't like time outs, and believe the situation could have been handled better, I think it's important for everyone to remember that most parents do the best that they know how to do. Many people on this site can empathize with the children, but forget to empathize with the parents also. Modeling how you would handle the situation might be enough to change the other parent's perspective. I also sometimes say, "When ds does_____, I find it helpful to _____." While I understand feeling frustrated at witnessing this, remember that criticizing doesn't do anything to change the situation.

 

[captain crunchy]

I am not an advocate of time outs. I am not an advocate of leaving a child to basically cio (even if they are toddler age) for any reason, nevermind a very minor, completely normal "infraction".

I think it is confusing to wee ones who are raised in a gentle environment, heck it is confusing to me even. I would not choose to be around people who treated their children with such disrespect, and if the friendship was that important to me I would have a calm reasonable discussion with the mother that what they do in their home is completely their business but I will not consent to such punitive measures in my home.

Good luck

 

[Plummeting]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PortraitPixie My child has time outs...he cries...and I am not at bad mother. :

No one said anyone was a bad mother.

Quote:

I do agree that some comforting and explaining were warranted...but I think you can still be gentle and gently use time outs.

Whether or not someone agrees with that statement, the whole point is that THIS was NOT gentle. There is nothing gentle about leaving a child alone to cry until a timer goes off.

 

[abac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by captaincrunchy I would have a calm reasonable discussion with the mother that what they do in their home is completely their business but I will not consent to such punitive measures in my home.

Good point! I didn't realize this happened in the OP's home. I have told people before that certain things are unacceptable in my home, specifically when someone hit their child in my home.

 

[frontierpsych]

maybe talk to that mom about "time ins"? She seems like she's trying to be gentle (by not spanking) but maybe has not gone about it right. If she were to take that two minutes to sit down and reach a compromise, or even calm her dd down and let her accept that the other kid had the toy first and she can use it next, it might allieviate some of the possible confusion. I agree that age two seems very young for "punishment" for that type of behavior. She sounds like she was just trying to get what she wanted and didn't see why she couldn't have it-- normal 2yo behavior. I don't think a time out will help her learn anything in that situation.

 

[irinam]

In all honesty I just fail to see the logic in the reasoning that "spanking is bad and hurts, but (punitive) time outs are OK"

I know I am speaking with passion, but just because you don't see the emotional bruises, does not mean they don't exist! Violating the body is NOT OK, but violating the emotions IS?

I said it before and will say it again - when I was a child (and I had both - time outs AND spanking) I would choose spanking any time! One, two, three - it's over.

Making me "isolated" from life, even if for 30 seconds, even if I could see my parents (that act so cold and uninvolved all of a sudden) was MUCH worse

Just like CC said - all of a sudden a toddler is deemed to be OK to be let CIO. Why? What does it teach? What is the purpose?

PS. And no, I am NOT advocating spanking in any shape or form.

 

[catgirl1007]

I appreciate everyone's points of view. The entire situation just felt wrong to me. I've attempted to discuss other natural parenting things with these moms... BFing, co-sleeping, homeschooling, and it falls on deaf ears. They don't think I'm weird or wrong, it's just not for them. The mom of the laid back little girl is especially set in her ways and believes that her way is the right and only way. That's her thinking and how she wants to raise her child is her & her DH's choice. I just don't like my DD subjected to it. In hindsight I wish I would have picked DD up and went in another room to play with her so that she didn't have to see her friend crying alone.

Quote:

To me, the bad thing here is that this child is usually very mellow. You have to give children room to be human.

ITA. I keep wondering how this will affect her later on down the road. The mom said that her DH has given their DD 1 TO and she has given her DD 4 TOs (now 5). I was left to cry alone when I was younger and it definitely had a negative impact on my early adulthood. My mom used to tell me that I was crying just to see myself cry and then leave me alone. Maybe that's why this situation didn't feel right.

 

[monkey's mom]

I bailed on my Mom's Group when the kids starting get older b/c of this exact thing.

It's not gentle. It's stressful for everybody present.

And I can about guarantee it's going to get more punitive.

From my experience, the kids act out more and more and interact more negatively with the other children--often long after the normal developmental toddler stuff (hitting, not sharing, biting, etc.) is over.

Sorry you're going through this! I know just how it feels.

By the way, I used the situation as an opportunity to head to my local API mtg and made some of the most wonderful friends ever!! And some of the nicest kids, too! Best to you!

 

[Plummeting]

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkey's mom I bailed on my Mom's Group when the kids starting get older b/c of this exact thing.

Yeah, I left a playgroup because of discipline issues, as well. I don't want DD seeing adults treat children like crap. It's bad enough she has to see family do it

when we go to visit. I don't want her to think the whole freakin world is like that.

 

[Twocoolboys]

Quote:

Originally Posted by abac I find in situations where I am uncertain how ds will be affected, it is best to pick him up and go for a short walk, even to another room, until the situation is resolved. While I personally don't like time outs, and believe the situation could have been handled better, I think it's important for everyone to remember that most parents do the best that they know how to do. Many people on this site can empathize with the children, but forget to empathize with the parents also. Modeling how you would handle the situation might be enough to change the other parent's perspective. I also sometimes say, "When ds does_____, I find it helpful to _____." While I understand feeling frustrated at witnessing this, remember that criticizing doesn't do anything to change the situation.

abac - I loved your post! That is so true. I think sometimes people respond like all parents actually KNOW of a better way, they just chose not to use it. So no matter what you believe about time-outs, I would bet that this mom is doing the best that she knows how to do. Modeling is such a good tool for everyone - children AND other parents. I have learned many different parenting techniques from seeing them modeled by other moms.

 

[sparklefairy]

How humiliating to be punished like that in front of others.

I would have removed the child from the situation until she was done tantruming. For toy disagreements, they're still at the age where they're learning the script for sharing and don't always have the impulse control not to grab. Though if it was one child grabbing repeatedly, I'd probably end the playdate if I was having to redirect again and again and try again another day.

 

[sweetpea333]

my toddler has been hitting her sister alot lately and i find myself giving her a time out for about a minute explaining to her why it is not ok to hit and then after her timeout i explain it again, i find myself trying different things to make this stop, my toddler acts alot different when other people are around, but i would never give a time out for a tantrum

: or anything less serious than hurting another.

 

[sweetpea333]

How humiliating to be punished like that in front of others.

 

[sweetpea333]

Quote:

Originally Posted by irinam In all honesty I just fail to see the logic in the reasoning that "spanking is bad and hurts, but (punitive) time outs are OK" I know I am speaking with passion, but just because you don't see the emotional bruises, does not mean they don't exist! Violating the body is NOT OK, but violating the emotions IS? I said it before and will say it again - when I was a child (and I had both - time outs AND spanking) I would choose spanking any time! One, two, three - it's over. Making me "isolated" from life, even if for 30 seconds, even if I could see my parents (that act so cold and uninvolved all of a sudden) was MUCH worse Just like CC said - all of a sudden a toddler is deemed to be OK to be let CIO. Why? What does it teach? What is the purpose? PS. And no, I am NOT advocating spanking in any shape or form.

that sounds right to me, i guess i should look for better alternatives, i am just at my wits end with the hitting!!

 

[Delacroix]

I've got four biological children and one whom I'm adopting. No one solution works for all children, and while some children are quite sensitive and traumatized by time outs, others are completely unfazed by them, IMO.

I don't believe in physical punishment of any kind, ever. But I do believe in discipline and natural consequences.

That being said, a child of this age cannot be expected to want to share, and these kinds of breakdowns are just par for the course. It's sad that this mother was so harsh with her child, because it does sound like this situation was traumatic for the poor girl.

I just wanted to pipe in with the observation that children are all really, really different. I don't think any two of my five are tempermentally the same. My oldest is a firey young lady, and I have always respected her for it. She's also very sensitive. My youngest daughter is mellow and laid back, but NOT really sensitive. She's never been very needy, and is not overly concerned with the opinions of others. (Which I ALSO really respect and admire.)

I just think it's not a bad idea to remember that some children are not fazed by time outs...or anything much, for that matter. With those children, I don't think time out is some terrible humiliation.