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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all! I was having a discuaaion w/ my mom today about "if" I someday have a boy. Circ came up and I said no way, I couldn't do that to my baby. She's HORRIFIED!!!!! "What do you mean you're not going to??" she said. I told her I don't think I could live w/ myself if I did. Here is what she said:<br>
1. "He'll look different from everyone else"<br>
2. "They can get infections"<br>
3. " Better do it at birth, than when he is 5."<br>
4. "Your grandfather had to get circ when he was an older man"(no info on that one??)<br>
5. "your husband is, he'll look different"<br>
6. "it's in the bible that to be one of gods people, you need to be circ"<br>
7. " it's only a piece of skin" (in response to my saying we wouldn't do that to a girl... she doesn't believe that there are nerve endings there)<br>
My mother is only 40. She is a very educated woman. I can't believe that she is being so unsupportive about this. I told her to hope then that I only have girls, but if I have a boy, he is my baby and I make the decisions and we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I can't believe how mad at me she is!!!! BTW, it was hypothetical, no new pg here.<br>
If anyone can please give me links to MEDICAL research stating this is a useless procedure and the stats on infection other pertinent info, I'd so much appreciate it. Also, if you have any brilliant comebacks, I'd appreciate that too. Thanks in advance. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/signcirc1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="sign circ">
 

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moving this thread to circ forum... <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up">
 

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I really like the Dr Sears page as an intro.<br><br><a href="http://www.askdrsears.com/html/1/t012000.asp" target="_blank">http://www.askdrsears.com/html/1/t012000.asp</a>
 

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Ok...I'm going to have to come back and edit more in as I find them...<br>
1)<a href="http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/bollinger2003/" target="_blank">http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/bollinger2003/</a><br>
It's getting close to 50/50, and still dropping every year.<br>
2)yes. But so can circed boys, and (don't have a link for this one...Frank?)the reason it appears that intact boys get a <b>few</b> more is because preemies aren't circed in hospitals, and preemies are more naturally prone to infections of all kinds, and the statistics that say the intact more prone to UTI's are basing it off of babies in hospitals.<br>
As far as other infections go, yes, a boy without a foreskin is less prone to get an infection of the foreskin, in the same way that a girl without a labia is less likely to get an infection under her labia.<br>
Stupid train of thought alltogether, kwim?<br>
3)We, under no circumstance, will be doing it at 5, either.<br>
When they start removing sexual organs on girls to cure medical problems we might reconsider.<br>
Not.<br>
4)Poor Grandpa!<br>
It was more than likely completely unnecessary. At least he was old enough to get adequate pain meds.<br>
5)<a href="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=224577" target="_blank">http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=224577</a><br>
or:<br>
I've been trying to convince dh to get a foreskin restoration. Better to have the adult get reconstructive surgery than to mutilate the baby.<br>
We do things <i>for</i> our kids....<br>
6)<a href="http://www.cirp.org/pages/cultural/glass2/" target="_blank">http://www.cirp.org/pages/cultural/glass2/</a><br>
7)This was written by a doctor... <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><a href="http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/fleiss.html" target="_blank">http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/fleiss.html</a><br>
Print it out to give to mom.
 

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Instead of finding facts to back up your arguments, I'd make her give you facts about her arguments. You get to make the decision, it's not your responsibility to educate her, though I understand why you would want to. Tell her you'll listen to her side when she provides written facts, not the 'facts' she's stating now.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">As far as other infections go, yes, a boy without a foreskin is less prone to get an infection of the foreskin, in the same way that a girl without a labia is less likely to get an infection under her labia.</td>
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The argument that got through to my dad (who was saying, "It's your decision," over and over but obviously upset by the idea that we wouldn't circ) was this:<br>
"Appendicitis is much more common than infections of the foreskin. But we don't give everybody an appendectomy at birth."
 

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In my CBE class, I have them debate the subject. One that invariably comes up is the urinary tract infection argument. If no one brings it up, I tell them that girls are 3 times more likely to get UTIs than circ'ed boys, but no one suggests removing any of their healthy, living tissue.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Faithsmom</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">1. "He'll look different from everyone else"</div>
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No, he won't. The rates now are around 50/50 in the US, and almost NOBODY circ's anywhere else. Besides, SINCE WHEN did peer pressure become a good reason to have surgery on a baby's privates?<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">2. "They can get infections"</td>
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This is true, any body part "can" get infections. However most intact males don't ever have a penis problem, and if they do, they can take antibiotics or medications JUST like a female would.<br>
Be honest here: How many UTIs/yeast infections/etc have you ever had? And would you consider cutting off your labia if that "might" prevent them?<br>
(Ask this of your mom.)<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">3. " Better do it at birth, than when he is 5."</td>
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Or better NOT do it at all.<br>
Besides, if you were to circ, it is more likely that your son would need additional surgery to fix complications, than it is that he would ever need the circ in the first place.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">4. "Your grandfather had to get circ when he was an older man"(no info on that one??)</td>
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At least he got to ENJOY his foreskin before it was taken from him. He also got better anesthesia than newborns ever do, AND didn't have to pee/poop on the open wound.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">5. "your husband is, he'll look different"</td>
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(ANSWER<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> YES, we hope they will. DS would look awfully strange with a penis the size of his leg and pubes. (Or whatever).<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">6. "it's in the bible that to be one of gods people, you need to be circ"</td>
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<a href="http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/religious.htm" target="_blank">http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/religious.htm</a><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">7. " it's only a piece of skin" (in response to my saying we wouldn't do that to a girl... she doesn't believe that there are nerve endings there)</td>
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What other "piece of skin" are we entitled to just cut off another person w/out valid reason?
 

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I can tell you what I say-<br><br>
"Genital mutilation is a human rights issue. It is my sons sexual organ and I have no intent to take any sexual pleasure away from him or is future partner. I will not cut my perfect baby boy just like I would not cut my perfect baby girl. All people, including babies have a right to their body and their sexual organs being intact. To inflict pain, and cosmetic surgery on an infant (most of the time without pain killers during or after) is cruel and unusual punishment. It is wrong and I will not cause pain on my child for a needless procedure. 46% of boy in this county are not circed and I have no intent to be part of the group that inflicts pain on their newborn sons."
 

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<a href="http://faculty.washington.edu/gcd/DOC/foreskin.html" target="_blank">http://faculty.washington.edu/gcd/DOC/foreskin.html</a><br><br>
Some benefits from circ that are rarely if ever discussed.:<a href="http://www.noharmm.org/IDcirc.htm" target="_blank">http://www.noharmm.org/IDcirc.htm</a><br><br>
The no harmm page also has a page that has some snappy comebacks to common reasons to circ.
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>annab</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I tell them that girls are 3 times more likely to get UTIs than circ'ed boys, but no one suggests removing any of their healthy, living tissue.</div>
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Actually, the rate is 4.5 times higher for girls, 50% higher than what you are quoting. That makes it even less of an argument.<br><br><br><br><br>
Frank
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I was reading through my old posts and found this....<br><br><br><br>
UPDATE:<br><br>
I have an uncirced 9 mo old boy now.<br><br><br>
Thank you all so much for the info and confidence you gave me to go with my gut and against my familys oppinions!
 

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Good for you! Isn't this a fun age? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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Congrats! Glad you stuck to it. And here I thought I was going to have to go through the whole list and refute your mother. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Faithsmom</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/6930754"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I was reading through my old posts and found this....<br><br><br><br>
UPDATE:<br><br>
I have an uncirced 9 mo old boy now.<br><br><br>
Thank you all so much for the info and confidence you gave me to go with my gut and against my familys oppinions!</div>
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YEAH FOR YOU! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br>
My parents still don't get it either... they are the same age as yours, oh well.<br>
When was your son born? I have a March 2006 baby boy myself. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink">
 

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Thank you for the uplifting update <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/happytears.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="happytears">: the past few days have been more ruff than usual on this issue and reading posts like yours makes me feel so much better.
 

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Faithsmom,<br>
Perchance do you have any brothers? If so, that may explain why your mom is so defensive about it.<br><br>
EDIT: Oops, didn't realize the original post was so old. Anyway, thanks for the happy update, Faithsmom!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Cherries10700</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/6932439"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">YEAH FOR YOU! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br>
My parents still don't get it either... they are the same age as yours, oh well.<br>
When was your son born? I have a March 2006 baby boy myself. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"></div>
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<br><br>
Oh mY!!! He was born on the 21st of march. His name is LUKE too! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Blarg</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/6935148"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Faithsmom,<br>
Perchance do you have any brothers? If so, that may explain why your mom is so defensive about it.<br><br>
EDIT: Oops, didn't realize the original post was so old. Anyway, thanks for the happy update, Faithsmom!</div>
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<br>
Yes. I have a brother who is criced and so is my father. My husband is too... but had no problem not circing our son.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>boingo82</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/6932040"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Good for you! Isn't this a fun age? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"></div>
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I love it!!!!
 

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Quick warning 9 mo was when my pediatrician decided it was time to start retracting DS.
 
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