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I'm a medical scientist working in a midwestern university setting. It seems to me that a disproportionate number of my colleagues (all infectious disease and cancer researchers) are firmly against circumcision, given that we live in a highly circumcising area. There are many foreign-born scientists here who are from non-circumcising cultures, but I am also talking about average native-born Americans raised in the climate of circumcision being the norm. One day in my office, 5 of us were talking, and it turned out that two of us have intact sons, two have no sons yet but consider circumcision to be genital mutilation, and one has a circumcised son because she left the decision entirely up to her husband
: There was silence in the room after she said that.

I wonder, is there a growing movement among educated young people to abandon circumcision, or is it chance that I work with people like that? Anyone else note something similar? I can understand people in philosophy and ethics giving circumcision the heave-ho, but the scientists surprise me a bit. Perhaps it's the analytical nature? If my experience is representative, I hope it trickles down to others in my region.
 

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Quote:
I wonder, is there a growing movement among educated young people to abandon circumcision, or is it chance that I work with people like that?
I read somewhere that the king of cutting (Dr Schoen) said that he fears circumcision is becoming less popular "especially among the young and educated." He went on to note how horrible this is
:

I cant remember, however, where I read this. It was fairly recently though.
 

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I think it's pretty simple...those who are truly educated people questions things are are more prone to research. That is what I did, and what many of my highly educated friends have done. No big surprise to me that the vast majority of them have intact sons.
 

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Yes, I agree. The more educated and enquiring not only do the research, they are also able to look at the original papers and value them according to their true worth.

No-one who is scientifically educated and has read all the available papers could come to the conclusion that circumcision is medically advisable to prevent or cure anything, in fact it's rather on the risky side, especially with MRSA making a grisly entrance and taking off so many little boys; it's then down to aesthetics and back to cosmetic surgery on a baby - and if it's worth the risk of death and disfigurement (beyond the disfigurement of the circ itself) to make your son sexually attractive to yourself.

Educated women who really cared about their sons would just not take the risk.
 

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Circumcision is illogical, therefore anyone with a logical and analytical mind has to realize it. Logic overrides cultural conditioning, faulty scientific reasoning, peer pressure etc. A person like that isn't always more educated, but they often are.
 

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There were 2 things that I learned in college that led me to leave my sons intact:
1. Question everything
2. FGM is a horrible practice that is essentially child abuse (GE soc. class, I think).

Because I learned those 2 things, I started to question MGM as well, and the more I learned, the more convinced I was that my sons would not be circumcised.
I don't think that a person has to have higher education to make this kind of decision(obviously), but, as a pp pointed out, universities do focus a lot on teaching students to ask questions, and I think that circumcision is one of those things that does not stand up well to questions. Maybe that's why so many young & educated people are choosing not to do this to their sons.
 

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I think scientists are more likely to understand the hard facts in these studies that people always talk about. Did you ever read the UTI one? It was ridiculous. I don't think the numbers were statistically different enough to draw the conclusion that intact boys get more UTI's. THat's probably why the conclusion said MAY not DOES. I'm a chemist, so epidemiological studies themselves bug the crap out of me. THe confidence level is so low, it's hard to say if the numbers mean anything at all.

People who don't know how to read a scientific article won't read the article. THey'll read the MAGAZINE article that may or may not have skewed what the actual scientific article said. You take a chance when you get your facts from a magazine article, not the scientific journal the info originally came from. KWIM? ANd sadly, most people don't know that.
 

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It's like a "marker" for IQ....
That would be an interesting bit of epidemiological research! ....Does being intact "give" you a higher IQ....

In Canada, right after they made circumcision a sort of "cosmetic" surgery (I use that wording loosely) that people had to pay for, relatives of mine had it done to their son, just because they could "afford it". It was like an option to "upgrade" to them. Have the plain ordinary baby boy, or "upgrade" to a circumsized one.
 

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My youngest ds is 1, and after his birth I was asking the OB what the rates seem to be regarding circ'ing; he said 15 years ago, about 70% of boys born under his care were circed and today it's less than 50% that choose to circ....so hopefully the tide is turning.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by InDaPhunk View Post
Circumcision is illogical, therefore anyone with a logical and analytical mind has to realize it. Logic overrides cultural conditioning, faulty scientific reasoning, peer pressure etc. A person like that isn't always more educated, but they often are.
: but I tend to think they ARE more educated.
 

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If people think about it thoughfully, I believe they are usually against circumcision. Unfortunately, many people rely on sound bites from the news media to do thier thinking for them, so are misled. In my experience, scientists are less likey to do this, as they understand how to interpret data carefully.

And I do think we are very slowly making progress in changing the average citizen's feelings about circumcision.

Regards,
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by InDaPhunk View Post
Circumcision is illogical, therefore anyone with a logical and analytical mind has to realize it. Logic overrides cultural conditioning, faulty scientific reasoning, peer pressure etc. A person like that isn't always more educated, but they often are.
I'd have to agree with this. I'd say it's the key to what first made me have an opinion on circ (an anti-circ opinion, obviously).
 

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I do believe that logical minds agree on circ, and it seems that there aren't many logical minds in medicine.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Treece View Post
I do believe that logical minds agree on circ, and it seems that there aren't many logical minds in medicine.
LOL! How true.

My current ped is very logical and I like him a lot. I'll be sad when we move away. It's so hard to find a good one. But he considers himself a scientist as well as a ped, which probably makes the difference.
 

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I do find that among my more educated friends do not circ, the less educated do circ.

I consider myself "educated" but all it took was for me to see how that elective procedure was going to hurt, to flush that idea down the toilet. Not much analysis there LOL!

However, I did tell the hubby over my dead body
Not sure that has anything to do with education or just balls!
 

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DS was born as I was finishing a master's in genetics with a minor in stats. The main thing my education gave me is the confidence to look at evidence and draw a conclusion that may be contrary to popular belief. Yes, I do think the logic of a scientific background led me to the conclusion that what most call circumcision is in reality MGM.
 

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I don't think it always holds true. One of my sister's closest friends, a Ph.D. in biostatistics, and her dh, and MD, circed their baby boy a couple of years ago. I guess the research was less important than what everyone else in Boston was doing.
 
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