[NewMomNicole]

I really really really am reaching the bottom of what I have to give on this. She just won't sleep. She had great sleep habits - often slept through, never awake more then once or twice to eat, three one hour naps a day - unitl about eight weeks ago. And then one night it all just went to hell. She won't stay down, she won't sleep with me, she won't sleep on me, she seems to sleep best in her own room in her own bed, but when the "best" is a 40 minute stretch your life has hit suck bottom.

At first I thought she was teething but the teeth are in (and more are coming, yay), then I thought it was that she's learning to crawl, then I thought maybe it's because she's going to have a growth spurt but as it turns out I just don't care. I just want her to SLEEP.

NCSS has been utterly useless as, ta-da!, we do all those things already and things are just getting progressivly worse. I don't know what to do. She's up at LEAST every hour at night, she only wants to eat twice and the other times it's like I'm offering poop. She won't nap. She's miserable and so am I. If one more person tells me to either "let her cry" or "this too shall pass" I'm go just EXPLODE. I'm trying so hard to work with her and be understanding and loving but I am so tired. My face just aches because my sinuses are messed up but the meds make me sleepy so oh well.

I need a PLAN. I want someone to tell me what to do so she will start sleeping and we can get on with our lives. I can not see this getting any better, it has just gone from bad to worse and that's all I can see coming. I need some HELP and some ANSWERS and I have no idea what to do.

She will NOT sleep with us, hates it. Sleeps too light to sleep in the room with us, every noise wakes her (believe me, no one was sadder than me to move her into her room but I respond just as fast as if she were in our room because I'm "sleeping" - aka sitting on the sofa sobbing - on the sofa right outside her door), there is NO such thing as "putting her down drowsy" and letting her put herself to sleep. She's NEVER EVER in her seven months of life just GONE to sleep. She's not too hot, she's not too cold, she plays in her bed during the day and she's not afraid to be in there. She hates the dark, even in the car, so she has a very small nightlight but hey, she never slept in the dark either so I don't think that's the problem.

I know this is like 99% vent because really, but we are both so so so unhappy and I can only see things getting worse.

 

[catgirl1007]

I don't have any advice, but I have BTDT. The first year or so with our DD was AWFUL with regard to sleep issues. She did eventually outgrow her refusal to sleep. Our DD went through phases of non-sleep maybe lasting 2-3 weeks at a time during situations you've described (teething, developmental, etc.). I wish I could give you some helpful advice.

 

[GooeyRN]

I don't have any real advice, Im sorry. I also read NCSS and I thought it was a waste of time and money. Im sorry you are so exhausted. I wish I had some good advice for you. I know what its like. DD (10 months) was up between 2am and 6am this morning, then only slept for an hour. (teething sucks!)

She will not nap at all today. I wish I could help you! Lets get together and watch each others babies and then we can sleep in shifts.

 

[NewMomNicole]

Thanks for the sympathy. We really need some help. It's not like my expectations are unreasonable - I'm not expecting to just plop her in a bed three times a day and have her magically put herself to sleep and I don't expect to put her down at 7 pm and not hear from her for 12 hours. I understand that she's still going to eat at night and I'm FINE with that. I just need her to f&#(ing sleep for more than 40 minutes at a time. A person can not live like this. My mom has offered to take her for the night so I get a WHOLE NIGHT of sleep but 1. I would miss her and 2. it just seems so pointless. Getting up with her allll those times is bad but what really gets me is that I can't see an end to it. I don't see a solution.

 

[rzberrymom]

I'm so sorry you're going through this! My DD woke every 2 hours all night long for the first 17 months. Until her teeth all came in, and then she slept through the night nearly right away. Unbelievable. It was the worst 17 months of my life, and I am seriously not sure I could ever have another child because of it. The only thing I can offer is 1) it helped when I got really good at nursing on my side and was sort of drowsy through all the feedings, 2) it helped when I ditched the clock and tried to quit worrying about whether she was still waking every 90 minutes or had we made it past 2 hours, 3) it helped to realize that NCSS might work for some but did not work for my kid (and doesn't seem to work for most kids around here!?), and that it I was going crazy trying all those techniques and then ending up devastated that it wasn't working, 4) it helped when I convinced my DH to take my DD for the first hour every morning, and I could finally sleep soundly (oddly, I think that hour is the main thing that helped me make it through--I looked forward to it so much I could taste it) and 5) I got a really good carrier (an Ergo) so that at LEAST I could get her to take a really good nap.

 

[canadiangranola]

Oh mama...I feel for you. Ds 1 never slept more than 45 mins in a row until he was 18 months, and then only b/c I forced the issue of night weaning b/c I was pregnant and sooo tired.

Vent away.

Do you have help? What if your mom came and stayed with you for a few nights so you could still be there for feedings, but when she woke up and didn't want to eat your mom could help with that so you could sleep? I remember feeling so desperate some nights that I would practically fling (okay...hand over not so gently) ds to dh in tears so as not to throw him against the wall. I remember saying some not so pretty things to ds in the middle of the night when I was too tired to see straight.

Here's what helped me.

Napping when ds napped. All the time, regardless of how much other crap I had to do. At least then I could sleep a bit. And DS napped longer if I napped with him, so it was a double bonus.

Getting time to nap alone, when someone else is responsible for ds. I found myself having a whole different level of sleep (and restfullness) when I knew I was not needing to listen for ds. If I knew someone else loved him and was caring for him, I could sleep really deeply, and even an hour or two of deep sleep can make a world of difference when you are feeling this way. (If it can't be at night, sleep during the day when someone else can take care of her...you won't regret it)

Take time for yourself when you can. Go for coffee and read a book, pick your nose, do whatever it is you need to do to recharge and stay healthy. You need to care for the mommy too

.

Hopefully something shifts soon.

Oh yeah....the thing that was a life saver for me was getting rid of the clock. I tok off my watch, took the clock out of the room.....soemhow if I didn't know i had just resettled him 20 minutes ago, it felt less stressful. I think NCSS is harmful for the reason that it tells us to watch the clock and we start to obsess even more about how much sleep we aren't getting.

Peace mama,
Anno

 

[Valian]

Hugs to you. I'm sorry I don't have any BTDT with a real non-sleeper but Ds has certainly gone through periods of very specific sleep requirements: only on our chests, waking every hour or less, wanting only Dad to rock him in a chair, needing a swaddle, hating a swaddle, okay with background noise, etc. so you could say I have a sleep picky baby.

Talk some more about what you do if you'd like us to help you brainstorm some real ideas. I've read that milk/dairy sensitivities are maybe linked to real frequent night wake-ups. Have you changed your diet at all in recent months?

Without knowing more about what you're doing, my advice would be: Do you have any magic sleep tools like driving in the car that will always put Dc to sleep? If so, I'd pull them out and make sure she gets some solid napping. If this means driving 10min until she falls asleep, napping or reading in the car until she wakes up again and driving for another 10min I'd do it during the day so she gets some solid naptime sleep to help "reset' her sleep clock.

Then, since nothing so far is working I'd go ahead and try some radically different things. Have a bedtime routine? Throw it out. Even if you've tried these things, why not give them another go: a pre-bedtime walk, or bath, or massage, loud white noise, loud soothing music and dancing together, singing, reading, or rocking. Once she's asleep what do you normally do? Change that. Have someone hold her in arms past what would be her first normal wake-up of the night and see what happens. Have the same music playing all night long.

Since she specifically does not want to nurse at night I would enlist 1-2 other people to hold/rock/walk with her when she wakes up at those between nursing times. On bad nights where I'm nursing every hour I nurse, finish, and do an immediate hand off to my partner so I can fit in any little sleep I can. If I'm not sure Ds wants to nurse I'll have Dh get up with him first. When Ds was tiny my Mom spent the night and at 4am when I was just done, she'd rock and hold Ds between nursing sessions so he and I could sleep. She literally sat in my bedroom and rocked him next to the bed.

I don't know if this is any real help. Just know that you've got people rooting for you and ready to listen to your vents.

 

[NewMomNicole]

Thanks so much for all the support. I just feel SOOOOO overwhelmed.

Our big problem, our one problem I think, is that she no longer knows how to put herself to sleep at the lighter end of her sleep cycle. I used the bold for other people who skim, like me

This wasn't a problem till teething (I easily rocked or fed her to sleep, she was off till she was hungry again at which time I could easily rock and feed her to sleep and she'd stay down till she was hungry again. She could easily go seven or eight hours and sleep through on many nights)...she would wake up so I would pick her up and rock her back to sleep (what else was I supposed to do?!?) and now she's used to it and can't sleep longer than her sleep cycle (and some nights, not even that long). I honestly don't mind rocking her to sleep. I don't mind feeding her if she's hungry in the night because generally when she's done, she's out, and I can put her down with no problems. She just can't STAY down. I guess I need advice on how to help her remember how to sleep longer than one cycle of sleep.

"Patting" her back to sleep is a joke. That way lies screaming. Shusshing or trying to talk her back to sleep, ditto.

What do I do to help her sleep longer than one sleep cycle? Getting her down is not the problem, keeping her down is. HELP?

 

[MyNameIsBen]

I have no constructive input to add; I just wanted to sympathize. My partner is in the middle of labor now, albeit mild labor, and we have both been anxious about sleep patterns. This sounds like hell. I hope you find a good solution for your family, and then I hope you post what it is!

 

[Squeakyneedle]

Mama, I am so there with you. My 7 month old sleeps...day or night...in precise 45 minute increments. That's his sleep cycle. This is actually sudden for him, because before his first tooth appeared he'd often only wake up once or twice during the night, and take pretty good naps in the day. Once that first tooth tried to rear it's ugly head all his nice pretty sleep habits went to

I'd co-sleep with him while he nursed, then put him back in his bed when he was done and I was awake enough to realize it. He'd sleep for another good stretch, then want to eat again, or get up for the day if it was late enough. Now? He wants to be attached....alllll night long. Last night Dh and I each tried...4 times in a row, baby would be conked in our arms and the second he felt that crib matress under him he'd squirm himself awake and want us again. Finally at 11:30 I said to heck with it, tucked him in bed with me and we both went to sleep. (of course, my boob was in his mouth but at least we were both asleep!)

I just got a book from the library, not NCSS, not Dr. Sears, but essentially the whole thing boiled down to "let your baby cry, it won't kill him." I expect that from Ferber, but I was hoping for something a little more creative (and less heartwrenching). They made it sound so simple and clean. Pat his back and then leave the room...he'll settle?

: And what am I supposed to do about night feedings?

You'd think that a 4th time mom could get her head on straight enough to get her baby to sleep.

It was this hard with my first, but the two middle boys were never this tough. They were those magic children who gradually just slept longer and longer between feedings until it was all night. And would fuss (not scream) for a minute or two when I put them in bed awake. #4 appears to be following in #1's footsteps. And I can't Ferberize another baby. 10 years ago it was the only thing I could find to do. I didn't have the internet and that's all my local library had on sleep. I did the only thing I thought I could (before I threw myself off our second story apartment balcony--it was that bad). I want to fix this before it gets that way again, or before I create a new lovely habit of staying latched on all night. He could be so peaceful, but the second that nipple disappears from between his lips we are all in trouble. I've got a raging sinus infection, and I'm not too sure the baby isn't feeling the effects of it as well, so the past two nights I've sucked under and let him have me all night, just so we can get something resembling sleep accomplished. But we can't do this forever.

 

[rzberrymom]

Quote:

Our big problem, our one problem I think, is that she no longer knows how to put herself to sleep at the lighter end of her sleep cycle.

This was our problem too--DH and I used to go to bed and say "well, see you in 20 minutes." But, I don't think it was that DD forgot how to put herself back to sleep--I think it's more that the pain of the teething makes it just too difficult for some babies to get through that light awakening. I'm probably going to be flamed for this, but I used Tylenol. It helped A LOT. She still woke every 2 hours and I nursed her each time, but that was way better than every 30-45 minutes. Hyland's works just as well for some kiddos, so that's definitely worth a try first.

 

[Squeakyneedle]

I've tried Tylenol for the past 3 nights with Brennan, and it hasn't seemed to help. Although, even though he's waking, he doesn't seem overly miserable, so maybe it is helping him feel a little better. My mom suggested raising the end of his crib mattress slightly...maybe when we put him down at such a flat, no-angle position he doesn't like it. Because it's the moment we lay him in bed that he wakes. (and he sleeps with me with his head on my arm) So, I stuffed an old afghan under one end and it's slightly raised. We'll try that tonight...in addition to the Tylenol because if I'm suffering with a sinus infection I'm betting that it's affecting him as well. He feels a tad warm, so I'd rather give him some and have it not help, then not give it and have him be miserable. Anyway...I'll report back on the raising the mattress idea.

Here's wishing sweet dreams...or any dreams...to everyone!

 

[yequanamama]

Valian already mentioned this, but I think it's worth highlighting. Could it be food sensitivities? 1. Are you eating anything new? 2. At 7 months, you've probably recently started solids?

My ds is dairy & soy intolerant, effective at 2 weeks of age. Before I got the offenders out of my system, he'd sleep for 10 or 20 minutes (this was ON me) and then be awake for a couple of hours or more. This was when he was 3-4 weeks! Once I got dairy & soy out of my system, he slept pretty normally. So it's worth considering.

 

[ChiaraRose]

I have no wisdom to offer, I am in the same situation. My ds is a bit over 6 month and in the last 6-8 weeks it has gotten worse and worse....he used to sleep all night. Nothing helps. Now he is trying to crawl and is teething. Please, let it get better after that. He gets up every 20-60 minutes, at night, during his naps.
I feel for you....
hugs,
Liane

 

[mom2PJS]

The only thing I have to add besides a quote someone on this board told me... "Teething, it's a design flaw IMO" is DD is about the same age and having the same probs. She had moved to a crib for most of the night at 4.5 months... just fussed and flailed with us and slept better in her bed. At 6 months I got tired of getting up every 45min and tried her in our bed again and at least I could sleep while she nursed. At least she has never teased us with ever sleeping more that 3 hours or so, so I don't know what I'm missing. NCSS stressed me out and coincidentally was when things fell apart.

 

[wannabe]

My brainstorming suggestions:

mix it up - do the opposite to everything els you've tried. can't hurt.

food sensitivities - not even new food, could be cumulative, could be in your diet, not his

other medical - get a checkup, including iron level, silent reflux?

 

[scoobers]

Well, I'm not sure I've got much to offer but that.

My son was the worst sleeper. I literally didn't get more than 2 consecutive hrs of sleep until he was 6 mos. old. (Didn't get much better than that for a long time either.) I felt like I'd won the lottery the first time I slept for 3 hrs. I read EVERYTHING from left to right on getting a baby to sleep and was frustrated with all of it. I came to the conclusion that his problem was being able to fall asleep on his own (I nursed him to sleep) but truthfully I never found a miracle solution it just kind of slowly got better. It wasn't until he was about 2.5 that he started sleeping reasonably. I think this is a huge reason why we only have one child. I really couldn't take going through that again. Until you've experience SEVERE sleep deprivation you can't even imagine what it's like. It really makes you crazy. Also, he never woke up EVEN once w/o full on screaming until about that same age. It really wears on you.

He now sleeps in his own bed but I lie down with him until he's asleep. He still wakes at least once a night but he just comes to get me and I go lay back down in his bed...no big deal. Of course, now my sleep pattern seems to be permanently messed up. I have a hard time sleeping more than 5 or 6 hours a night and I frequently wake up in the middle of the night and CAN'T go back to sleep even though I have the option. Sigh, ain't life crazy??

Can your partner (assuming that's your situation) help you out at all? Maybe you could sleep in shifts? I see that your Mom offered to help. Take her up on it...really. One night of good sleep can make a tremendous, if temporary, difference.

Have you tried a binky?

: I know that's a charged issue but every baby I knew who slept great seemed to use one. (My son thought they were E-VIL and would have nothing to do with it and I must've bought 20 different kinds!)

Hope the sleep fairy sends you and your daughter some sleep!

 

[*Isra*]

I came on here looking for advice.. My almost 7 mos. old just started the worst sleep habits so far.. last night from 2-6 he was up every hour, 2,3,4,5,6..then I said whatever and we were both up.. I was crying miserably from lack of sleep.

I too tried NCSS religiously.. I mean I bought the lovey, filled out charts, logs, everything.. I dont like her book or her advice.. its not SOLID.. its not a real step by step approach or how to.. its more of a well, this could work, and try this.. Im like woman give me a SOLID plan already! Im wondering about CIO in arms.. I put DS in the sling, like I always do, but instead of running down the hallway (Im NOT joking, I LITERALLY used to run back and forth) and then bouncing vigorously till he slept, I decided to just gently sway him side to side.. no sweating on my part, but he was in the sling the whole time.. well he cried..no he SCREAMED in high shrills till he fell asleep, Im assuming he wanted me to go running, but I physically cant anymore.. so what about in-arms CIO?..

 

[onlyboys]

We had one of these children.

And, while I can happily tell you that he is 4.5 and sleeps through the night, it's not terribly helpful for you now, while you're in the trenches of sleeplessness.

Here's what we did:

Light didn't come on from bedtime until morning. Period. We had a bathroom light on in the hall, so there was some light, but we didn't ever get out of bed until morning. This meant that we did a lot of playing in bed, or just wandering around the bed, but there was no getting up.

Tanked him up with nursings before bed. I mean, as much nursings as humanly possible. This kid was ready to burst.

Dry topper to the cloth diaper. We used fleece so that he didn't need a change.

When I was too exhausted, my husband took him for a drive in the car. He would often drive through and get a cup of coffee to begin his morning (he has to get up at 5am anyway).

We really were just super tired for those years. It was exhausting, but I can safely say that by acknowledging his needs for those years, I feel we created a very secure sleeper! He's in his own bed, falling asleep on his own for several months now!

Hugs to you!

 

[GooeyRN]

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Isra* I came on here looking for advice.. My almost 7 mos. old just started the worst sleep habits so far.. last night from 2-6 he was up every hour, 2,3,4,5,6..then I said whatever and we were both up.. I was crying miserably from lack of sleep. I too tried NCSS religiously.. I mean I bought the lovey, filled out charts, logs, everything.. I dont like her book or her advice.. its not SOLID.. its not a real step by step approach or how to.. its more of a well, this could work, and try this.. Im like woman give me a SOLID plan already! Im wondering about CIO in arms.. I put DS in the sling, like I always do, but instead of running down the hallway (Im NOT joking, I LITERALLY used to run back and forth) and then bouncing vigorously till he slept, I decided to just gently sway him side to side.. no sweating on my part, but he was in the sling the whole time.. well he cried..no he SCREAMED in high shrills till he fell asleep, Im assuming he wanted me to go running, but I physically cant anymore.. so what about in-arms CIO?..

Thats how I felt about NCSS. Its a bunch of fluff, saying it might work, and if it doesn't, its ok. NO ITS NOT OK!! I wouldn't have bought the book if I was ok with being sleep deprived.

: I understand about the running and bouncing... Until dd was 5 months old, I had to swaddle wrap her, turn on the Turkish March (Beethoven) hold her in the nursing position but not nurse, and forcefully march circles while vigorously bouncing her around the coffee table every evening. What was funny, was dh would be silly and mimic me following me around the table, and then the dogs would follow him! So we had a train marching around. I wish I would have had someone video tape that to show dd when she is much older to give her a laugh! I still have to vigorously bounce her in the same position, but doing it while swaying works now, and I don't have to swaddle wrap her anymore. She is now 10 months and getting up about 2 times a night. One waking is for 10 minutes (to eat) and the other waking is for about an hour. (Not hungry, just being fussy and refusing to sleep)