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<p>This is so absurdly ridiculous — yet so typical of my mother. I'm thinking this probably isn't a hill to die on, but I'm curious what others think...</p>
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<p>My mom bought my daughter a pair of pink new balance sneakers a little while ago. For whatever reason, dd doesn't like to wear them. She is only 16 mo but already very particular about what she wears — she'll say "no" and pick out what she wants. We support this (as long as it's not inappropriate, ie. she has to wear a jacket outside). She has a little pair of checkered Vans which she loves. My mom hates these sneakers — they're not her asthetic, though she'll never say that outright. So everytime dd has them on (which is often b/c she loves them) my mom makes a big deal out of how they always fall off and she should have her pink shoes on... </p>
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<p>My mom watches dd for a couple hours several times a week, at times when my work schedule and dd's dad's class schedule overlap. Today when I went to pick up dd after work from my mom's I got an earful. My mom was upset. Really upset. Like on the verge of tears, storming about, upset. She tells me that when she picked up dd, she had her Vans on and her dad said "he likes to foster her independence or whatever" but then she went to the grocery store and dd lost a shoe and it was a total big deal (to my mom, not dd) and so we should just give my mom the pink shoes back so that she can put them on her when she has her b/c dd doesn't ever give her a problem about it and "we really shouldn't complicate things anymore than they have to be" and she doesn't mean to be critical but he was out of line. The whole rant was ridiculous — she is the one complicating things — and how is he out of line?! And it's all only because she doesn't <em>like</em> the Vans. She'll even change dd's clothes if she doesn't like what she comes over in. It's silly. I calmly explained to my mom (for the 16th time) that we, her parents, allow dd to pick out what shoes she'll wear if she seems to have a strong opinion about it, and that we want to encourage her to have an opinion and some control over those things, to which my mom just repeated that we should give her back the pink shoes because dd always puts them on for her. She likes to say things like that a lot — that if "I'd just let dd be" she wouldn't nurse so much, or if "I'd just let her" sleep in her own bed she'd sleep through the night. I find it annoying and disrespectful. </p>
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<p>I asked dd's dad about what happened, and he was shocked that she was so upset. He told me that he explained to my mom that he tried to put the pink shoes on dd but she pitched a fit and insisted on the Vans. My mom tried to tell him he should just insist she wear the pink shoes, and so he gently stated that <em>we</em> really like to support her independent opinions and he didn't want to make a big deal out of a pair of shoes. My mom said "Well your her father, that's your right" and left it at that. He even packed her slippers in the bag so that my mom could take the Vans off at her house. But, the whole interaction has apparently left my very sensitive mother feeling undermined. She doesn't like not getting her way. </p>
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<p>So part of me wants to tell my mom she can't have the pink shoes back, that she needs to just suck it up (it being the fact her granddaughter is wearing shoes she doesn't like). But this will cause drama... not that it should, but it will. She'll take it way more personally than she should. But if I just give her the shoes, it's saying it's ok for her undermine the independence we're trying to foster in dd. A large part of me feels like my mom just has absolutely no business making a big deal of this, and so she shouldn't be catered to. I feel like I need to make a statement: I am the mother, he is the father; she is the grandmother and not the boss of anyone.</p>
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<p>Thoughts? What would you do?</p>
 

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<p>Yep, tell your mom that you're choosing to let your child (not hers) make her own decisions.  You'll keep offering the pink shoes and then let her choose. </p>
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<p>This is a hill to die, imo.  It'll only get worse as she gets older so it'll probably be better to get it under control now. </p>
 

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<p>my dd has a pair of checkered vans too! are they the pink and white slip on ones? They are sooo cute! :D</p>
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<p>Anyway your mom sounds like mine. My mom also tries to change my kids' clothes to what she wants them to wear. If the kid doesn't care, I don't care, but if ds says he likes an outfit, and my mom wants to change it anyway, I take ds' side (within reason). I would give her back the shoes and see how your dd reacts when your mom tries to change the shoes. If she gets upset, tell your mom to leave it alone. Its entirely possible though that your dd really does go with the flow when she is at grandma's. My dd supposedly goes to sleep on her own when my mom watches her. In my 7 months of parenting her, I think that's happened twice with me. who knows.</p>
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<p>I totally agree with you that it is annoying and stupid (and I have a mom who meddles like this in everything, so I can sympathize) but I would say the less you feed into it the less satisfaction your mom will get out of making it a big deal and hopefully she will move on.</p>
 

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<p>"She gets to choose what shoes she wears, and we aren't changing anything."  She's sad that your dd doesn't like the shoes she bought.  I might try to verbally empathize with that in some way.</p>
 

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<p>Honestly if you trust her enough to watch her for you, I would just give her the pink shoes & let her put them on DD at her house. If you are worried DD will be upset & her needs & wants won't be respected at your mom's house, then you have a much bigger issue to deal with than what shoes she wears. (I don't mean that in a rude way lol, I can't write today, I mean in a caring & sincere way that your DD deserves to be watched only by people who will respect her & won't intentionally interfere with the most important values you are trying to instill in her. It's hard to tell from your post whether or not this is the case.)</p>
 
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<p>I would give the shoes to your mom.  I think you're right, not the hill to die on.  If you don't have the shoes, she can't be upset about your DD not wearing them.  If you keep them, it will not help your mom get the point you're trying to make.  She'll just be mad and hurt and these pink shoes will have way more power than they should.  Your DD will get to choose her own shoes, the vast majority of the time, at home. At grandmas, she'll learn that things are different, and that's okay too.  I think it's important for kids to know that even though things are a certain way at home, the whole world isn't necessarily like that. It sounds like your mom loves your daughter and is a loving grandma.  Her preference for "nice" shoes isn't going to hurt your DD so I'd let it go. </p>
 

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<p> </p>
<p>She'll outgrow the pink shoes in a couple of months, but your mother's attitude is going to persist for a lot longer.  After the shoes, it will be her winter jacket or the kind of hat she wears or how her hair is done. If you don't want to address your mother's control issues and discuss them with her, then I'd consistently and firmly (but as gently as possible) maintain your boundaries, as you have already described them. You are the parents and you respect your dd's independence. </p>
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<p>You can commiserate with your mother about how you feel when your dd rejects clothes that you've bought her.  You can laugh about how much you'll admire your dd's strength of will when she's 20 years' old, but what a pain it is at 20 months. If these attempts to lighten the stress around the situation, don't work, you don't have to engage in any further discussion. Just stick to your principles. (I know it's easier said than done.).   </p>
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<p>I suspect that your mother's control issues about appearance probably occurred with you as well, and there's a deeper family history around this issue. The fact that your mother became so distressed and teary about it strikes me as manipulative. That suggests a whole other level of family dynamics. If it really is just about these shoes, then it may not be a big deal to give them back to your mother. </p>
 

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<p>i will offer a voice of disagreement from other posters; this totally sounds like an issue that i could have with my mother.</p>
<p>i would not give in, nor would i let anyone bully my child into wearing something when she so obviously has a different preference. </p>
<p>in fact, if she dislikes those other shoes that much, i would just simply get rid of them, conveniently, when you are purging stuff to take to goodwill or for hand me down or whatever.</p>
<p>though it sounds like you are repeating yourself over and over that you are allowing your child to make her own choices, you might need to be more firm.  it would peeve me to no end to have my mom try to dictate clothing choices to my child (b/c she did that to me, it may be different for you). </p>
 
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<p><br><br>
 Yea that! I was trying to reply and my post was erased. But this post much more clearly says what I was trying to say anyway.</p>
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>ollyoxenfree</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1283088/shoe-drama-wwyd#post_16087959"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p> </p>
<p>She'll outgrow the pink shoes in a couple of months, but your mother's attitude is going to persist for a lot longer.  After the shoes, it will be her winter jacket or the kind of hat she wears or how her hair is done. If you don't want to address your mother's control issues and discuss them with her, then I'd consistently and firmly (but as gently as possible) maintain your boundaries, as you have already described them. You are the parents and you respect your dd's independence. </p>
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<p>You can commiserate with your mother about how you feel when your dd rejects clothes that you've bought her.  You can laugh about how much you'll admire your dd's strength of will when she's 20 years' old, but what a pain it is at 20 months. If these attempts to lighten the stress around the situation, don't work, you don't have to engage in any further discussion. Just stick to your principles. (I know it's easier said than done.).   </p>
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<p>I suspect that your mother's control issues about appearance probably occurred with you as well, and there's a deeper family history around this issue. The fact that your mother became so distressed and teary about it strikes me as manipulative. That suggests a whole other level of family dynamics. If it really is just about these shoes, then it may not be a big deal to give them back to your mother. </p>
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<p>I completely agree with this post:</p>
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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>ollyoxenfree</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1283088/shoe-drama-wwyd#post_16087959"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-right:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-bottom:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p> </p>
<p>She'll outgrow the pink shoes in a couple of months, but your mother's attitude is going to persist for a lot longer.  After the shoes, it will be her winter jacket or the kind of hat she wears or how her hair is done. If you don't want to address your mother's control issues and discuss them with her, then I'd consistently and firmly (but as gently as possible) maintain your boundaries, as you have already described them. You are the parents and you respect your dd's independence. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>You can commiserate with your mother about how you feel when your dd rejects clothes that you've bought her.  You can laugh about how much you'll admire your dd's strength of will when she's 20 years' old, but what a pain it is at 20 months. If these attempts to lighten the stress around the situation, don't work, you don't have to engage in any further discussion. Just stick to your principles. (I know it's easier said than done.).   </p>
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<p>I suspect that your mother's control issues about appearance probably occurred with you as well, and there's a deeper family history around this issue. The fact that your mother became so distressed and teary about it strikes me as manipulative. That suggests a whole other level of family dynamics. If it really is just about these shoes, then it may not be a big deal to give them back to your mother. </p>
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<p>I would think long and hard before giving in on this - because that sets you guys up for this scenario over and over again with clothing options as she ages.</p>
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Can I also say that the Vans are probably just more comfortable.  They are comfy shoes.  I'm wearing a pair now.  My son has wide feet and for about a year we just kept purchasing one style of Vans because they were the only ones he'd wear.  Yes, he's also rather particular about what shoes he wears.  But hey, they are his feet, not mine so (within reason) it is his decision.<br><br>
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<p>Like a PP I too would simply get rid of the shoes.  Give them to a friend who will get some use out of them.  Tell your mother that a gift is a gift and since said gift is the crux of an argument you felt it was best to remove it, to give it to someone who will get better use out of it.</p>
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<p>From your description of events it really sounds like a couple of things are going on here:</p>
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<p>1. Your mom can't handle not getting her way so its just a power trip.</p>
<p>2.  Your mom does not respect your husband's authority as a parent over her own as a grandparent (does she have gender issues?) and so when he stood up to her she was really thrown.</p>
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<p>I would also hold my ground and continue to allow my child to have control over as much as possible in her life.</p>
 

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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>red and lulu</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1283088/shoe-drama-wwyd#post_16087835"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a>My mom watches dd for a couple hours several times a week, at times when my work schedule and dd's dad's class schedule overlap. Today when I went to pick up dd after work from my mom's I got an earful. My mom was upset. <strong>Really upset. Like on the verge of tears, storming about, upset</strong>. She tells me that when she picked up dd, she had her Vans on and her dad said "he likes to foster her independence or whatever" but then she went to the grocery store and dd lost a shoe and it was a total big deal (to my mom, not dd) and so we should just give my mom the pink shoes back so that she can put them on her when she has her b/c dd doesn't ever give her a problem about it and "we really shouldn't complicate things anymore than they have to be" and she doesn't mean to be critical but he was out of line. The whole rant was ridiculous — she is the one complicating things — and how is he out of line?! And it's all only because she doesn't <em>like</em> the Vans. <strong>She'll even change dd's clothes if she doesn't like what she comes over in</strong>. It's silly. I calmly explained to my mom (for the 16th time) that we, her parents, allow dd to pick out what shoes she'll wear if she seems to have a strong opinion about it, and that we want to encourage her to have an opinion and some control over those things, to which my mom just repeated that we should give her back the pink shoes because dd always puts them on for her. She likes to say things like that a lot — that if "I'd just let dd be" she wouldn't nurse so much, or if "I'd just let her" sleep in her own bed she'd sleep through the night. I find it annoying and disrespectful. 
<p>Thoughts? What would you do?</p>
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Find a new babysitter.</p>
<p>The issue is much larger than shoes. Your mom is being ridiculous, controlling  and disrespectful to you as parents and your child as a person.</p>
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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>ollyoxenfree</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1283088/shoe-drama-wwyd#post_16087959"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>I suspect that your mother's control issues about appearance probably occurred with you as well, and there's a deeper family history around this issue. The fact that your mother became so distressed and teary about it strikes me as manipulative. That suggests a whole other level of family dynamics. If it really is just about these shoes, then it may not be a big deal to give them back to your mother. </p>
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<p>This is very true. My mother did this to me until I was <em>in highschool</em>. She had final say in what I wore, how my room was decorated. I would have friends bring me clothes and shoes to school so I could change. And not only would she dictate what I wore, she'd try to convince me that it's what I actually wanted to wear, b/c she knew me better than I knew myself. I deeply resent her for this, and have been very clear that I would never, ever do that to my daughter. Hence why we let dd call the shots as much as possible. My mom has a strongly narcissistic personality, and so is very difficult to deal with, especially now that I'm a mom myself. And a mother of a girl no less. The fact that I don't do things the way she did or would is difficult for her to deal with. I try not to explain myself too much, it falls on deaf ears. <br>
 </p>
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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Chamomile Girl</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1283088/shoe-drama-wwyd#post_16088189"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>Like a PP I too would simply get rid of the shoes.  Give them to a friend who will get some use out of them.  Tell your mother that a gift is a gift and since said gift is the crux of an argument you felt it was best to remove it, to give it to someone who will get better use out of it.</p>
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<p>From your description of events it really sounds like a couple of things are going on here:</p>
<p> </p>
<p>1. Your mom can't handle not getting her way so its just a power trip.</p>
<p><b>2.  Your mom does not respect your husband's authority as a parent over her own as a grandparent (does she have gender issues?) and so when he stood up to her she was really thrown.</b></p>
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<p>I would also hold my ground and continue to allow my child to have control over as much as possible in her life.</p>
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He's not my husband, which may be part of it. (He's not even my boyfriend currently, but that's a whole other something.) She does have gender issues a bit I suspect — but she has people issues. When someone does not agree with her or has a different opinion she takes it as an insult, a challenge, a put down. She definitely didn't like that he stood up to her, even though he did it very gently and was well within his rights. He's totally losing his patience with her though. One of these days it won't be so gentle. </p>
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<p>The more I think about it, I actually do think this may be a hill to die on, for me at least. Like ollyoxenfree said, if it's not the pink shoes it'll be something else. If it was a safety or health issue, ok. Things can be one way at grandma's and one way at home, but one thing that should always be ok is being yourself and having your personal opinion respected. It's just a pair of shoes. She's a 58yo woman, she should be able to deal with it. If someone ever spoke to her today the way she spoke to me she'd go nuclear. Somedays dd does want the pink shoes, so I'm keeping the pink shoes at our house, and will stand my ground. </p>
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<p>ETA: My mom is a difficult personality, yes, and I'm often frustrated and angry with her and her passive-aggressive, controlling tendencies. But she's a loving grandma and a huge help (most of the time). Dd loves being with her. She hates to be left with anyone <strong>but</strong> her. I have already significantly limited the amount of time my mom watches her alone by taking her with me to work or using other sitters, but wouldn't feel good about taking that away from either of them completely. </p>
 

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<p>IMO, it doesn't matter if he's your husband or not he is your lo's FATHER. And as being such he gets as much say in her raising as you do, NOT your mom. I guess in your situation I'd do a couple of things...</p>
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<p>Donate the shoes to a charity that are causing such an issue. I'd explain to your mom they were just to much of an issue...but you're probably nicer than me :)</p>
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<p>Find a new babysitter. Explain to your mom that you cannot parent your Dd as you see fit b/c she undermines your authority.</p>
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<p>Come up with (and stick to) some boundry lines with your mother. I would get with your DD"s Dad to make these as well.</p>
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<p>I know you just said that you would feel bad by taking them away from each other ...I'm NOT suggesting that. But I think that perhaps your Mom is wearing too many hats in you life. She's your mama, your Dd's Grandma , AND your babysitter. </p>
 

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<p>Just one more thought ...<strong>Did her Mom do these things to her (like change your clothes/shoes to what she wants) when you were a little girl? Maybe she's just doing what her Mom did to her?</strong></p>
 

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<p>I would die on that hill.  But then again, I have to be very VERY firm with my mother or else I have to deal with months if not years of tantrums and passive-aggressive bullcrap.</p>
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<p>I would also be blunt with her.</p>
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<p>"No.  I'm sorry you're upset, but the shoes are a non-issue, you are overstepping your boundaries in that regard, I'm just informing you since it seems like you do not see that.  I hope you are not allowing your attachment to an item of clothing ruin your enjoyment of the many happy hours that your granddaughter spends in your care.  Please don't be disrespectful to DD's dad again."</p>
 

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<p>Next time you end up with something that just doesn't work for your dd, offer to give it back to your mom immediately and if she declines, donate.</p>
 

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<p>i would give your mom the pink shoes. and let her figure it out if she can put it on dd or not.</p>
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<p>i know my dd is sooo unpredictable. she will do things for gma she would never do for me. or what was ok with gma (like beans and rice) are absolutely NOT ok with me. she'd never eat the beans and rice even if i got them from gma. at 3 months she'd be screaming her head off, not bf nothing i would do would stop her. i'd hand her to her gpa and pin drop silence. he'd rock her and talk to her in a calm voice and she'd stop immediately.</p>
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<p>perhaps your mom will understand how hard it is to put something on to a child who doesnt want it.</p>
 

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<p>I can't help feelingn that your mom would force the pink shoes on your dd, if she has them, and then possibly claim your dd chose them. She does not respect you or your dd's dad, so it does not seem unlikely that she would not respect your dd, either.</p>
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<p>I would not bring back the pink shoes (any chance they are already too small?), but I also would not be comfortable with her babysitting my child.</p>
 

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<p>Given the past history with your mother and her being so controlling, I agree with Tigerchild, for this relationship, this is battle that you need to firmly not budge on. In a different relationship, then this would be a minor one, but I am afraid that if she "wins" this one, you are setting the tone for years to come with her intervening with your DD. I would make the shoes disappear and explain why, I would not give them back only because I feel they would be forced on your DD when you are not around. Maybe with other items from now on, they should be given back right away. It isn't going to be easy, there are certainly going to be hurt feeling on her end but do not back down on this battle. </p>
 
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