[chersolly]

Has anyone been following this story?
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/08/16/D8JHRKAO2.html

How can they rip a mother away from a child?

 

[lisalou]

There was a case kind of like this in Vermont. Well no sanctuary in the church. But a couple who were working for a Vermont farmer legally (I think this was a little unclear) were deported without their children b/c he had been convicted of entering illegally before. He was the only farmhand on this guys farm. And the two families had grown rather close.

So the farm family got their 2 kids to relatives in a nearby town and then worked with INS to ensure that when they couple was sent back to Mexico their kids were able to go with them. They said it was really difficult and they were shuddering to think of other employers that might not be as concerned as they were or as involved and families who were just ripped apart as a result.

 

[pumpkinsmama]

The INS needs serious overhaul. I really aplaud the church's efforts here, it is the first time I have heard of sanctuary being given in modern day. I heard a debate on the news about whether it loosens the seperation of church and state to have a church become involved like that. I think it makes an excellent counter balance. The state can make whatever laws it wants and the church can follow the moral right it believes in.

 

[Danelle78]

Quote:

Activists said her desire to come here to work and provide a better life for herself and her son illustrates why they believe the nation's immigration laws must be changed.

:

Yeah, all for family values. They can't have it both ways. Either you promote family values and help keep them together or you face the fact that you are distracting from the plight of the American worker by pointing at illegals.

 

[RiverSky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chersolly How can they rip a mother away from a child?

As an immigrant with American-born children, this terrifies me.

 

[swimswamswum]

this is so f*cking hypocritical. Family values? hah! How awful!!!!!!

 

[orangebird]

It doesn't make sense (although I admit I haven't heard of this story before I read the article so there might be something I'm missing) but if they make the illegal immigrant leave (which I believe is fully acceptable, I have very low tolorance for illegal immigration

: ) why can't the parent take the child with them? I think they ought be expected to take any minor dependant children with them unless they have a legal US legal guardian I suppose. I understand that under current law the US born child is a US citizen, but first and formost she is a minor child of her mother. When my Norwegian citizen mother took me with her to her native Norway every summer I had to go because I was a child and she was my mother. I couldn't be like "Wait, I was born here, I'm a US citizen, I'm staying right here, my mother must go without me". The 7 year old has to go with her mother. And if her mother needs to move back to Mexico the child needs to go with her, nomatter her citizenship. I don't get it.

 

[Danelle78]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mara When my Norwegian citizen mother took me with her to her native Norway every summer I had to go because I was a child and she was my mother. I couldn't be like "Wait, I was born here, I'm a US citizen, I'm staying right here, my mother must go without me". The 7 year old has to go with her mother. And if her mother needs to move back to Mexico the child needs to go with her, nomatter her citizenship. I don't get it.

Being deported for good from a country and being a vistor to that country are two TOTALLY different things. You could legally travel with your mother and stay on your travel visa (Passport) up to three months in most cases. I haven't looked into it much, but it maybe that she can't get a passport for her child because of her illegal status. Or it might be that Mexico will not allow the child in because of his legal status. In either case, it will take longer to get the visas for the kid than the time ICE would give her to leave the country.

RiverSky-As the wife of a German national here legally, this terrifies me too. ICE is indiscriminate and uncaring.

 

[orangebird]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danelle78 Being deported for good from a country and being a vistor to that country are two TOTALLY different things. You could legally travel with your mother and stay on your travel visa (Passport) up to three months in most cases. I haven't looked into it much, but it maybe that she can't get a passport for her child because of her illegal status. Or it might be that Mexico will not allow the child in because of his legal status. In either case, it will take longer to get the visas for the kid than the time ICE would give her to leave the country. RiverSky-As the wife of a German national here legally, this terrifies me too. ICE is indiscriminate and uncaring.

Yes, there is a difference between being told to leave and leaving voluntarily. But the fact remains the same, minor child goes where mom goes. Child's citizenship makes no difference. If mom must go, then unless she wants to leave her child behind and makes such arrangements, child goes with her. Not sure I see the tragedy here. Is someone saying teh child isn't allowed to go with her mother?

And I totally disagree, it will be no problem for mom to walk into Mexico with her child. Have you ever crossed the boarder to Mexico? I walked across that boarder so many times I couldn't count. Most of the times as a minor myself with no adult with me. I highly doubt that Mexico is going to give a Mexican citizen a hard time coming back home with her minor child. I have never heard of this being a problem and having grown up next to the boarder knowing many illegal immigrants and their kids born here I have never heard of any of them having a hard time travelling back home with their american soil born children. Never have I heard of a problem with this.

 

[Anuska]

Quote:

As an immigrant with American-born children, this terrifies me.

If your legal you have nothing to worry about.

 

[Niamh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anuska If your legal you have nothing to worry about.

Ignorance is bliss.

After working in the International Office of a university for 3 years, I can tell you that being 'legal' and 'illegal' can change overnight and without the person's knowledge. And the ramifications of that can be devastating.

Also, it is very, very easy for someone to be told they're legal, be given all of the correct paperwork and then be told later that they're not and must leave or pay a huge fine.

:

I agree that the program needs a serious overhaul.

 

[umsami]

Why would she leave her child here?? Why wouldn't she take him with her??

Also, can he apply for a green card for his Mom as a US citizen? Just curious. I realize that a conviction as an illegal immigrant may prevent her from being granted one... but couldn't somebody do something to make this all sort of go away?

I We're all immigrants... except for those of us who are of Native American ancestry. Legal, illegal... I don't think there was a formal process when my relatives came over back in the early 1700s.

I think there is a lot of racism regarding the whole immigration thing... which people don't acknowledge. I live in NYC. Our neighborhood is mainly Chinese, Russian, Ukranian, and Italian. We have Chinese-Americans who have relatives who have been in this country for at least a 100 years. Yet, people still look at them and their children as "immigrants." Yet the kids of the Russians and the Ukranians who have been here for less than 10 years are not treated as such. Why?? Because they are caucasian.

If this woman was not Latina... would this be happening?? Seriously. She got in trouble for having a fake social security number. So she was still paying social security taxes. She was working in an honest job. She has a son who is an American. There has to be a loophole people. Problem is... it's too much of a political hot button right now.

Sad. I hope she finds a way to stay. Or maybe gets welcomed into Canada or some other nicer country.

 

[angelpie545]

INS does need a serious overhaul. It should never even be a question that if a mother is deported, that the child should go with her. There is never any greater benefit to the child for leaving them in the US. Kids belong with their parents. Seperating them for no good reason can and probably will create lasting emotional trauma that will never be fully resolved. Doesn't that cross the INS's minds when they are doing business? The interests of the child should always come first, and barring few exceptions it's always best for the child to stay with their mother(parents-dads count too!).

 

[swimswamswum]

One of my friends teaches at an elementary school whose population is about 90% Mexican-American. She said that at least once a month, a kid has a breakdown because either mom or dad was deported by the INS. Their grief counselor is really busy with kids dealing with their parents and other family members' deportations.

Family values my

 

[Ruthla]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danelle78 Yeah, all for family values. They can't have it both ways. Either you promote family values and help keep them together or you face the fact that you are distracting from the plight of the American worker by pointing at illegals.

It bugs me to see a person described as "an illegal." She may be in this country illegally, she may be an illegal immigrant, but she's not an illegal person.

ITA that the INS needs a major overhaul. This woman should be able to stay in this country without this kind of fear.

 

[swimswamswum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruthla It bugs me to see a person described as "an illegal." She may be in this country illegally, she may be an illegal immigrant, but she's not an illegal person. ITA that the INS needs a major overhaul. This woman should be able to stay in this country without this kind of fear.

:

One of my favorite profs in college had a sticker that said "no person is illegal" on her door.

 

[caned & able]

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelpie545 INS does need a serious overhaul.

That was done in 1986 with Simpson/Mazzoli and in 2002 when it became the ICE and a department under Homeland Security.

Doing another overhaul will make things worse.

The case law in this situation is contradictory.

 

[CookieMonsterMommy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by umsami Why would she leave her child here?? Why wouldn't she take him with her?? Also, can he apply for a green card for his Mom as a US citizen? Just curious. I We're all immigrants...

We're not all immigrants. People born here are not immigrants to the country. Legally and most times culturally and socially we're not immigrants. Descendants of immigrants? Yes.

He can't apply for anything for his mother--he's 7 years old!

She might not "want" to bring him to Mexico because she knows/thinks he'll have a better life, more opportunity, better chances, etc if he stays here.

kelly

 

[caned & able]

Quote:

Originally Posted by umsami She got in trouble for having a fake social security number.

This is actually a very serious offense that carries heavy penalties, not to mention the problems it can cause for the person whose number is being used. It is possible that the real person may have been audited by the IRS and had to pay income taxes on the income that this other person earned so it increased the amount of income the real person earned.

 

[kelly81]

Quote:

Originally Posted by umsami She got in trouble for having a fake social security number. .

Seriously? Wow, and I was feeling a little sorry for her...not anymore.

I agree with what Caned said, that's a very serious offense...especially on the person that actually had that number! Wow.