[Pam_and_Abigail]

http://www.herald.ns.ca/stories/2004...da176.raw.html

I read this article in my paper tis morning, and I find this part odd:
"Police spokeswoman Anne Drennan has said it's likely the mother won't be charged if she comes forward. However, she could not guarantee the woman would not be charged.

She said police recognize that abandoning the baby must have been an extremely difficult decision. "

So because it's hard to leave your baby, you shouldn't get charged? I'd say if she did it it wasn't that hard...

You know it's a hard decision to make to pull a trigger and kill someone, so maybe we chould give them slack...
Does anyone else see it this way, or do most people think the idea of 'safe haven' laws are good.
I'm hoping we can have a friendly debate on this, and if you feel I'm wrong, I'd love to hear some other points of view as I try to form my opinion on this...

 

[Rhonwyn]

Personally I support safe haven laws. No matter what you do there are always going to be women who will be in denial about a pregnancy up until the very last minute of birth. Babies will always be abandonned no matter what policies or laws are in place. At least if there is somewhere they can leave a child and not have to worry about being punished, then maybe we can save most if not all of these babies. I like the idea of having firehouse drops because firehouses often have EMTs who can care for the baby.

To me the whole issue is like abortion. Outlawing it won't make it go away. You have to provide a safe way to do it while working on the things that make women have abortions or abandon their baby. Support of women is the answer not punishment.

Rhonwyn who spells crappily

 

[Teensy]

I'd need a better idea of the condition of the bus station. If the baby was left in a warm, populated area where it was reasonably sure that she would be found quickly, then no, I would probably not press charges. If the location was cold, or remote, and it was unlikely the baby would be found in a safe time period, then I probably would.

I totally support Safe Haven laws. If Canada had them, then at least the pregnant women would have had an anonymous method of placing the child into the cusody of others. I'm not familiar with the process of placing a child for adoption, but I imagine it to be anything but quick and anonymous (for example, I imagine the father needs to be contacted or notified by advertisement in the newspaper).

 

[andi_3k]

If she had simply left her somewhere safe to be found. I'd say don't charge her, but placing the little one in a bag and leaving her at a "bus stop" not a station even but a "bus stop" that bothers me.
I fully support Safe Haven laws, and I do think we need to support each other more, but actions have consquences and leaving a child in a bag, anywhere could have been tragic. ( not to say that abdonning a child isn't tragic).

 

[lynchmon]

My feelings are that if she left the poor baby in a plastic bag, she didn't mean for it to live. I think it's so sad that women have to resort to that.

I support the Safe Haven laws. I do no support someone who leaves their child to die.

I'm so happy the baby is alive and well!

 

[nuttinhny]

safe haven laws

Quote:

A "Safe Haven" is a new term which has come into the media spotlight in recent times. The decision to prosecute a person for abandoning their child is left up to the state in which the abandonment occurs. Currently, all states have some sort of legislation concerning infant abandonment, either pending or on the books already.

I personally feel that if a mother can't take care of, tell family or another support system close to her that she has a baby, safe haven laws are good. In Indiana the baby MUST be left at a hospital, Fire station or police dept. Someplace the baby can get immediate care. No questions asked. If it saves one babies life, then in my book it is a good thing.

 

[HoneymoonBaby]

I support safe haven laws. I want moms who feel unable to care for their children to be able to drop them off at a hospital, church or fire/police department without fear of prosecution. It's far better than the alternative.

I don't think the immunity from prosecution should extend to a woman who leaves her baby just anywhere.

 

[Bippity]

In VA there was a bill introduced on this last year, but it did not pass. The problems with it are multiple... First, the mother would have to know that this is possible and know where to drop off her baby. What happens if she drops if off at the wrong place or at the wrong time? They were talking about places like schools taking babies - are they equipped to care for a baby? Second, it says something very sad about the state of our society where pregnant girls and women are not well supported from the beginning. Third the people receiving the baby would have to be specially trained in how to do this without blaming the mother - I mean, it would be so hard to say, sure, just leave your baby with us and go on-we don't need to know anything. Also, would mothers who are hiding a pregnancy/baby actually drop 'em off? The baby in the article was left to die in a plastic bag. It wasn't wrapped in a basket and left on somebody's doorstep. BIG difference.

 

[mommystinch]

I believe she should be charged. Leaving a baby anywhere, without someone agreeing to care for him/her, is abandonment! Even if the mother had reason to believe that her baby would be found in a very short amount of time, she had no way of knowing that for sure. The baby could have died by then, suffered serious injury, or the person who found them could just not have done anything about it. Also, think of the trauma to the baby to be there cold and crying, with no one to answer his/her cries. Oh, how sad

Who knows how long the baby was waiting to be comforted

 

[bayviewbill33]

She should be charged with abandament. Plus attemted murder (not sure if murder is the correct legal term) - "left the baby in a PLASTIC bag at a bus stop." You left a baby out side in a plastic bag???? That is sad. Too bad Canada does not have Safe Haven Laws. At least someone found the baby in enough time. Hopefuly the baby will be put up for adoption and live in a loving home.

 

[TiredX2]

I would need more information before making a decision.

It seems to me that the worst general outcome of child neglect is loosing custody (versus jail time, $ fines, etc...). So, if the parents don't want custody anyway...?

There does need to be a safe & easy way to permanently terminate custody, though.

 

[indie]

What about the fathers? Do they get punished for abandoning their children?

 

[TiredX2]

Quote:

What about the fathers? Does they get punished for abandoning their children?

Thanks for bringing that up. I always consider that when a mother is charged because her *boyfriend* abused a child while she wasn't there. Exactly where is the *father* in this situation, and wouldn't you consider him MORE culpable (after all, I assume he wasn't in love with the boyfriend)?

 

[Greaseball]

I think if a father leaves a baby behind in an unsafe location, he should be charged, just like the mother should. No one is saying fathers should be able to do this.

If you don't want a baby, have the sense to leave it with someone who can care for it. Leave it at a hospital or the CPS office, not a bus station! I support safe haven laws in those situations when the child is left in a safe place. I just wonder, how can it be proven that the woman dropping off the baby is the mother? What if a teenager had a baby and her mom didn't think she should be a mother, so she stole the baby and left it at a hospital, claiming to be the mother?

Maybe every woman who drops off a baby is given an exam to prove she has recently given birth? Even if she has, how can it be proven she gave birth to the child she is trying to leave?

 

[number572]

& fathers who don't support their kids in any way (financially, emotionally, socially, etc), or only calling & asking about the kid once or twice a year... shouldn't they be charged with abandonment? For all they know, the kids *could* be in danger as well. That doulbe standard & lack of responsibility bugs me so much. It's just another way to slam scared/unfit mothers who already know they're unfit, imo. Safe haven laws are a good thing. More funding for getting the message of Safe Havens should be available.

And getting more strict with the other half of the kids' parents (unsupportive/unavailable fathers OR mothers) would be highly beneficial.

 

[grisandole]

I firmly support Safe Haven laws, but in this case, she didn't drop the baby off in a safe place; it was in a plastic bag! So, I do believe she should be charged, and offered counseling and such.

Kristi

 

[kavamamakava]

Did I miss something? Where does it say "plastic" bag in the article?
I think that if they don't offer the mother immunity, she won't come forward with information. I also support safe haven laws.

 

[andi_3k]

Quote:

The baby was two or three days old when she was found. A woman at the bus stop noticed something moving in a bag.

It doesn't state what kind of bag it was; just that the little one wasleft in a bag...bad enough.

 

[Greaseball]

I think fathers should be charged with neglect when they don't make child support payments, and with abandonment if they walk out on their families and the mother doesn't have a job.

 

[paquerette]

Quote:

Originally Posted by andi_3k It doesn't state what kind of bag it was; just that the little one wasleft in a bag...bad enough.

At the top of the article. "Days-old infant found in plastic bag at bus stop in British Columbia"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greaseball Maybe every woman who drops off a baby is given an exam to prove she has recently given birth?

I think that would defeat the purpose. These women are probably already pretty traumatised; if they know they have to submit to some stranger poking and violating them, they're probably just going to do what this woman did. And what police or fire station is equipped to do post-partum exams?

I think that if someone steals someone else's baby and turns it in like you suggested, if the real mother wants it she's going to report her child missing and they will be able to get it back to her.