[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

OK, I'm in opinion gathering mode so maybe I can sort out my feelings about this. I don't want to start talking to kids about potential options until I'm sure about what I am willing to offer.

DS (9-3rd grade) and DD (6, K) go to a small private school on scholarship. I love this school -- small classes, extra teachers, art, music, underlying Christian values, 3 recesses and sports every day, staff librarian... All things the local public schools don't have.

But DS reports that he is miserable, he has no friends, he feels isolated and unhappy. His teachers, on the other hand, report that he seems fine during the day. With only 16 kids and 2 teachers, they should have a good handle on what they see. He just got a really good report card for academics and most conduct criteria. He does melt down easily, cry easily, and has a temper issue. This may make it hard for him social, especially as the boys mature and develope more ideas of "manly" behavior.

He has recently report several incidents of teasing, bullying (example-being pinched for St. Patrick's day), being hit in sports... But the teachers say no, this didn't happen. Or they didn't see it, but DS says it happened during class time and the class is simply too small for me to believe the teachers would miss it.

So, I'm trying to figure out if:
1. A bigger school with more choices for friends would help? How does that balance with being "new" for 4th grade?

2. Should I even consider leaving a school that does so much more than public schools for what might or might not even be a real issue? Or an issue that a different school might or might not change?

3. How does DD play into this decision? The school is clear across town and it would not be possible to maintain her in current school and change DSs school. Its both or neither at current school. Since there are several private Ks here, having her join a school for 1st grade would be less obvious than having DS being new for 4th grade.

4. Is there other ways to help DS? Is there "friend" therapy? I do know he needs to learn to control his temper but I don't know how to help with that either.

I suspect much of the problem is that we don't live in the neighborhood with the rest of the children in his class, nor do we have the money they do, so our lives are different than his classmates. And he doesn't play on the same after school teams or anything because of distance. Kids mostly do organized activities after school rather than "playdates" at this point.

Help -- how do I sort this out?

 

[octobermom]

Honesty I don't see any of these issues being resolved in a public school setting some like teasing could actually get worse and while it might give him a bigger pool for frieds it will also widden the chances of "enemys"

Deanna

 

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Yeah, that's my basic thought. The only way this might help is if most of the issue is how different we are from the rest of the kids, where we would be "normal" for a public school. This is a very wealthy group of families and we just aren't. Comfortable, sure, but not 5,00 sq. ft. house, SAHM mom + FT housekeeper + nanny, Europe for Spring Break, everything in the world type family, which is what the rest of these children are accustomed to. Occassionally blows my mind.

That and the fact that there are only 6 boys in 3rd grade (only 1 class per grade) and in a public school there would be maybe 30-40.

Sigh... I hate it when my kids are unhappy and I don't know the answer.

 

[purslaine]

My gut feeling is to weigh what you son says over what the teacher says. He is the one hurting, yk?

Teachers do not see everything - and adults often interpret things as playful - when to kids it is hurtful.

Moreover, IMHO, some (not all!) teachers really do not like to "see" bullying. I have been in meetings where teachers have flat out denied bullying was an issue at the school - only to find out later on that many parents had similar bullying concerns as I.

As per what to do - I would try to fix the situation. Document incidents (and be specific) to make your case. I would ask the school to help you in helping him develop social skills - such as not over-reacting to things, alternatives to whining - really, anything he does that makes him a target.

I would do this because the school does sound good, and it would be so much easier for everyone if he could stay there.

However, life is short, and a good chunk of school is social - and if he is not happier in a reasonable amount of time, or if the school proves difficult to work with, I would switch him.

Kathy

 

[meemee]

what about other activities. outside school. whatever he enjoys. karate class, theater, animal club, art. anything.

ooooooh how about the big brother's club. sounds that would work reallly well for him. he is craving friends.

public school might not be the answer.

my dd is in public school and she doesnt really care for any of the 60 first graders. she plays with all but doesnt really have a friend there. i think that is going to be her personality. v. picky where friends are concerned.

 

[Heavenly]

We are having a similar problem with our son. Our kids go to a small private Christian school. There are only 13 kids in a split 1/2 class (he is in grade 2, his sister is in grade 1) and only 5 of those are boys, including himself. He really doesn't have any friends. The boys he will be with next year (in the grade 3/4 split) pick on him. He does still enjoy going to school though, and enjoys the lessons and the place itself. He has bipolar disorder and anxiety disorder and has different phases in his disorders when the meds need to be adjusted so it causes him social problems. We have considered pulling them and putting them in public school which would have benefits (we currently have to drive 20 mins one way to get them there, it costs quite a bit) but we really think that it would be very possible that he would end up with more bullying and more people who don't like him. At least in the small environment he is getting a better education. At this point we are pretty sure we are going to leave them in the small private school and just keep encouraging him to make friends. It is a hard decision for sure.

 

[mojumi]

I wasn't sure you mentioned -- has your ds been going to this school for several years, or is this his first year there? If this is the social group he has been with for several years and he hasn't been unhappy before, is there something different this year?

I liked a pp's suggestion for afterschool activities, maybe some kind of club or sport that he could participate in and develop friendships out of school or at least practice making friends.

Does he want to change schools? (Not that I would let a 3rd grader decide, but it would be interesting to know how strongly he feels about it.) Does he think there is something he could do -- or his teachers could do -- that would help improve the environment for him?

I suspect that for some teachers "fine" means "not disruptive and does work without complaining". That isn't exactly my idea of 'fine'. Maybe meeting with the teacher and letting her know that he is unhappy (not asking her if she thinks he is unhappy, but letting her know he IS unhappy, and why, and asking for any helpful ideas)

It's close to the end of the school year -- could he be feeling a little burned out? What do you think of his teacher at this school for next year?

Good luck

 

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojumi I wasn't sure you mentioned -- has your ds been going to this school for several years, or is this his first year there? If this is the social group he has been with for several years and he hasn't been unhappy before, is there something different this year?

He's been there since K. He has been happy and unhappy at various times throughout the years. There is VERY little turnover at this school, so these are essentially the same kids since K and will be through 5th grade.

Quote:

I liked a pp's suggestion for afterschool activities,

He does karate, which he enjoys. But it doesn't really let him make friends there because there isn't a lot of visiting. We have a limit of 1 sport per kid because of the demands of the school and our limited resources. He does Adventure Guides and seems to have friends there, but they only meet 1/mo. He didn't want to go back to baseball this season.

Quote:

Does he want to change schools?

I don't want to ask until I figure out how I feel. I don't think it would be fair to ask "do you want to do this" and then say "Well, I don't think I want to let you".

Quote:

I suspect that for some teachers "fine" means "not disruptive and does work without complaining". That isn't exactly my idea of 'fine'. Maybe meeting with the teacher and letting her know that he is unhappy (not asking her if she thinks he is unhappy, but letting her know he IS unhappy, and why, and asking for any helpful ideas)

I agree that her definition and mine don't match. But she says he does well, seems to play with other kids. She is right, he does have trouble with meltdowns and temper.

Quote:

It's close to the end of the school year -- could he be feeling a little burned out? What do you think of his teacher at this school for next year?

Could be burnout -- its a pretty intense year. He has about 2 more months. I love his homeroom teacher next year but don't know who he will have for all of the breakout classes. Don't love the sports teachers, where lots of issues seem to crop up.

Sigh. Sure wish I felt like there was a clear answer.

 

[eepster]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evan&Anna's_Mom 4. Is there other ways to help DS? Is there "friend" therapy? I do know he needs to learn to control his temper but I don't know how to help with that either.

Yes there is. There are many psychologists who teach social skills to children. (I discovered this while trying to find one who does it for adults so I could send DH, but that's a whole'nother thread.)

Off hand I lean towards keeping them where they are. Though I'm not saying absolutely "don't switch," I wouldn't till you looked into what is going on really thoroughly. Though it would be easy to pull the kids out and pop them into PS, if it didn't fix the problem, it would be much harder to go back and try to reclaim their places and scholarships. So I would work pretty hard at fixng the current situation, before changing schools.

Is there any possibilty that you could get someone to observe the class for you. (I would say observe yourself, but I figure your presence would change the dynamic, so you would get much info.) Or, do they have camras in the rooms, so you could watch those? It's really hard to come up with solutions when what exactly is happening is fuzzy.

 

[ecoteat]

Yes, teachers in a small class can miss things. They shouldn't say something didn't happen when the kid says it did--they can say they didn't see it or any evidence of it, but they really can't know about everything at once.

I teach in a small school and teach classes from 3 kids to 14 kids. The social thing is very difficult in a small school, but I think the advantages of a small school are worth the extra effort it can take to make the social piece go more smoothly. The effort itself also has long-lasting positive benefits. Right now we are dealing with our 6 middle school girls struggling with each other. We teachers know this is very important to sort out, so we are helping them through it by having lunch groups once in a while to give them all a chance to talk things out. Our guidance counselor has held lunch groups with younger kids who struggle with social skills as a friendly way to try to teach them some socal skills. It sounds like your son needs to be explicitly taught how to respond to frustration and anger. When I taught 3rd grade I realized it was not at all uncommon for kids to need help with that at that age. I would hope the school would recognize that and be willing to teach the kids that. The kids just can't get away from each other in small groups, so they need to be taught how to work with each other--not just your son, though. I think small schools have a responsibility to do that for all kids.

 

[Linda on the move]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evan&Anna's_Mom I don't want to ask until I figure out how I feel. I don't think it would be fair to ask "do you want to do this" and then say "Well, I don't think I want to let you".

I think it depends on how you phase it. "We are considering making a change, and there are a lot of things to consider. One of the many things to consider is how you feel" is very different from "what do you want to do."

I have no idea what is best for you child. Sometimes I'm fuzzy on what is best for my own kids!

Is the money thing that extreme with all the families or is it just a couple of families that are over the top? I think that if it is ALL the families, then you as the parent have to get really clear on why your child is in the school and communicate it with your child. I know a wonderful family whose kids attend a private school with weathly children and it works well, but the parents are VERY clear with their kids that they are there for academics. I don't think that 3 recesses a day where you have no friends is a reason to attend a school. On the other hand, if you child is getting an education that far exceeds what they would get in the public school they attend, then it might be worth the crap. But if it is, you need to be clear about that in your own head and then communicate that with your child. Is you child in school to make friends, or to be educated? I think that to make the situation work, you have to have thick skin and help your child grow thick skin too. That doesn't have to be a bad thing. It can build character.

The mom I know whose kids are doing well in the private school has a tremendous ability to let stuff roll of her back. There are issues with the other moms (who are snobby to her because every one knows her kids are on scholarships) and she just keeps repeating in her head "thank you for paying for my kids' educations."

Also, you have some family policies that seem a little stiff, such as the one activity rule. May be you could reconsider that because it doesn't sound like it is working for your son. Check activities at the Y, or boy scouts, or something that would be more social and not too expensive. There are changes that you could make that would be less extreme than changing schools.

There is a book called Liberated Parents: Liberated Children (or something like that) that talks about the messages we give our kids and how they affect their relationships with others, helping kids make friends, etc. It might be helpful. Because of the current situation, it will most likely take your son seeing himself different to really fix it -- if he moves schools while still seeing himself the same way, he has a good chance of repeating the experience in a different school.

Again, I don't have any idea what is best for your little guy. It's hard to see our children unhappy. We just want to fix it.

 

[pranamama]

If you can move him to another school, then I would ask him if he wanted to move and follow his lead. He does know these kids better than anyone else since he is there all day. Not all public schools have bully problems.

 

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linda on the move Also, you have some family policies that seem a little stiff, such as the one activity rule. May be you could reconsider that because it doesn't sound like it is working for your son. Check activities at the Y, or boy scouts, or something that would be more social and not too expensive. There are changes that you could make that would be less extreme than changing schools.

Its not money, its time. Kids are in school until 3:30, and its a 30 minute commute home. DS has about 60 minutes of homework each night, plus music practice (his instance on learning guitar, not imposed). With time for dinner and a reasonable bedtime, that only leaves so much time in the week for extra activities. Plus little sister needs her fair share of stuff too. So, by the time you get one sport per child, one weekly music lesson per child, and one "extra" activity that meets monthly or so (Adventure Guides (similar to Boy Scouts, without the politics) for DS, Daisy Scouts for DD), add church and related commitments there, you are pretty much out of time.

 

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecoteat It sounds like your son needs to be explicitly taught how to respond to frustration and anger. When I taught 3rd grade I realized it was not at all uncommon for kids to need help with that at that age.

This sounds promising. Were there specific resources that could help a non-teacher learn to do this? School is not terribly interested in being helpful it seems (no counselors, teacher and headmistress not really willing to admit there is a problem), so I think I'm going to need to find something that I can do outside of school. Since frankly these are not skills that I'm good at, I'm going to need some sort of guidance/ideas.

 

[Linda on the move]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evan&Anna's_Mom So, by the time you get one sport per child, one weekly music lesson per child, and one "extra" activity that meets monthly or so (Adventure Guides (similar to Boy Scouts, without the politics) for DS, Daisy Scouts for DD), add church and related commitments there, you are pretty much out of time.

Actually, your little guy is in a lot more than 1 activity! Does he have friends through church or adventure guides? Are there kids through those activities that he might be able to build friendships with?

 

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linda on the move Actually, your little guy is in a lot more than 1 activity! Does he have friends through church or adventure guides? Are there kids through those activities that he might be able to build friendships with?

Actually, I said "one sport" -- his is karate. He seems to have friends he enjoys seeing at church and we've done a few post-church playdates with those kids. Adventures Guides seems harder because they only see each other once a month, but he does have fun at the camp outs and such. DH says he seems to do fine with playing with the other kids and he's never complained about not having friends at either of those places. Which could support that its a school-based issue or that there really isn't an issue and he's after our attention, which is pretty much the response the schools is saying.

 

[vaw]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evan&Anna's_Mom This sounds promising. Were there specific resources that could help a non-teacher learn to do this? School is not terribly interested in being helpful it seems (no counselors, teacher and headmistress not really willing to admit there is a problem), so I think I'm going to need to find something that I can do outside of school. Since frankly these are not skills that I'm good at, I'm going to need some sort of guidance/ideas.

I would recommend the book How to get the Grr out of Anger. It is written at about a 3rd/4th grade level and written to the child. You could read some of it with him - it goes through recognizing what makes you angry, ways to process it, and what actions are appropriate and not. It helped my son a lot

 

[Freeman]

So sorry to hear that your ds is having some problems

I know that a 3rd grader prob. doesn't want his mom to step in and "interfere" much with his social life, but have you considered trying to facilitate the friendships in some way? What if you invited some of the kids over for some type of party? He would be reaching out to them and, at the same time, you could observe how he interacts with them and what the issues may be. Sometimes I think just having one good friend makes the school social scene much more tolerable. Do you think that he is already conscious of the fact that he "has less" than his wealthier classmates? If so, a talk about this may be in order. Also, since summer is almost upon us, consider what he could be involved in over the summer that could help him work through anger and frustration. As others have said, there are counselors (unfortunately not one at your school, but you could look into private counseling) that work with children on social skills, etc. It seems like role playing and practicing dealing with various scenarios would be helpful at that age. Also, maybe ask the other parents at the school what activities their kids do over the summer -- perhaps if he bonded with the kids outside of school over the summer, things may go better next year. Good luck!

 

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

So, interestingly enough, the topic of a different school came up on its own yesterday. We were talking about the differences between their school and the neighborhood public school and DS said he had no interest in changing schools, so I guess I'll leave the idea alone for a bit.

We also had a long conversation (somewhat forced by me, I suppose) about self control and over-reaction after he had a completely meltdown because I "hurt him" as I was ticking him. Even if I drawn blood his reaction was overboard. Since I'm 95% sure that I didn't hurt him at all, it was crazy. So we talked about how that sort of reaction might be making it hard for him to stay engaged in games at school, and how that is exactly the sort of thing that got him his only bad mark on recent report card (self-control "needs improvement"). I'm hoping that awareness might make him move towards changing things a bit.

 

[oceanbaby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evan&Anna's_Mom He has recently report several incidents of teasing, bullying (example-being pinched for St. Patrick's day), being hit in sports... But the teachers say no, this didn't happen. Or they didn't see it, but DS says it happened during class time and the class is simply too small for me to believe the teachers would miss it.

I just wanted to comment on this. My older son went to a preschool with 15 kids and two teachers, and they would absolutely miss things like this. Plus, some kids are very skilled at knowing exactly when the teacher isn't looking. Heck, I can be in the same room with just my two kids and something happens as soon as my head is turned.

I would believe your son. And I would ask him what his thoughts are on it. I wouldn't say "Do you want to change schools?" but I would say "Is there something you would like me to do, or something I can help you with, in fixing this issue?"

My dh had a miserable social experience that bordered on bullying for a few years in elementary school, and it really affected him.

Edited to add: The overreaction to things may very well be his way of releasing the pressure he feels. My older son is like this - he will go along with whatever is happening, but then one little issue and he will just burst. It's like it all bubbled up and he couldn't control it anymore. So maybe a discussion about identifying all those "small" things that come up throughout the day and how to get those resolved might be more helpful than how to control the built up angry outburst.