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Discussion Starter #1
also posted in vaxes but didn't know where it fit and I need some help.<br><br>
My 2.5 year old was exposed to whooping cough and now, a few weeks later is in the beginning stages of it. I am beyond stressed about this. We also have a 8 month old and a 4 year old in the house. Should we all go on preventative antibiotics? I'm mainly concerned about hospitilization of the 8 mo. What do I do? I know everyone's stance on antibitics here, which usually has been mine. But I never thought I'd be facing this, so I just don't know what to do. My oldest is vaxed up to 18 months, has had 3 of dtap, and my other two, including the one with wc now, are both completely unvaxed.<br><br>
Would antibiotics really prevent the rest of us from getting this?<br><br>
help!
 

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I haven't seen any research that they really do any good. I wouldn't do it. I would get vitamin c into everyone in the house though.<br><br>
-Angela
 

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I second that suggestion alegna! Fortunately, I have never had to deal with whooping cough (yet), but have read that Vitamin C is remarkably effective (as it is for many other things). I would definitely go with Vitamin C over the antibiotics (which have many negative effects as you probably know). I am glad to hear you posted in the vax forum - there is a very knowledgable crew there (especially the author of "Just a little prick") that can offer you good advice. Good luck to you!
 

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Is Pertussis a virus or a bacteria? If it's a virus, all the antibiotics in the world won't prevent a case of it. If it's a bacteria, then that could work.<br><br>
What antibiotics can do is prevent secondary infections from viral illnesses, though I prefer to wait to see if such an infection even happens and then treat it with the best antibiotic (not all being effective for all germs) for that particular infectious organism.
 

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I second the Vitamin C - there is info on here for a mama who was dealing with this recently.<br>
You should get some good replies at the vax forum<br>
The antibiotics are harmful from what I have read and I personally would not do that.<br><br>
Emilie
 

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There's a thread in the vax forum on treating pertussis--I'm sure if you post there someone can link you to it. IIRC, antibiotics actually make whooping cough worse. Vitamin C to bowel tolerance is very effective in treating pertussis per "Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases, and Toxins" by Thomas Levy (and based on anecdotes of personal experience by mamas in the vax forum).
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks everyone. Are there some forms of Vit C that are better absorbed than others...i mean I know the whole Sodium Ascorbate thing but I can't find it at my local Whole foods and I don't know what form to give it in, powder, chewables etc.<br><br>
My other dilemna with the antibiotics is school. My oldest dd would be able to return to school if able after 5 days on antibiotics. Otherwise she'd miss like weeks and weeks. I just don't know. My head is spinning. I don't agree with the antibiotics either. ohhh I'm just so upset by all of this.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Meiri</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7268275"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Is Pertussis a virus or a bacteria? If it's a virus, all the antibiotics in the world won't prevent a case of it. If it's a bacteria, then that could work.</div>
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Pertussis is caused by a bacterium: Bordatella pertussis<br><br>
---<br><br>
Hi, Kelli:<br><br>
Sounds scary. I hate using antibiotics as well, but it might be a consideration, especially for the baby. Here's some research to think over. Hope it helps.<br><br>
...<br><br>
From Medscape Today: <a href="http://japan.medscape.com/viewarticle/519699" target="_blank">CDC Revises Pertussis Guidelines</a><br><br>
Factors determining whether postexposure chemoprophylaxis is needed include infectiousness of the patient, intensity of exposure, potential consequences of severe pertussis in the contact, and possibilities for secondary exposure of persons at high risk from the contact, such as infants younger than 12 months. The benefits of reducing the risk for pertussis and its complications should be weighed against potential adverse effects. Postexposure prophylaxis can prevent symptomatic infection in asymptomatic household contacts if administered within 21 days of onset of cough in the index patient.<br><br>
Symptomatic, coughing household members of an index patient should be presumed to have pertussis. Because infants younger than 12 months, especially those younger than 4 months, can have severe and sometimes fatal complications from pertussis, postexposure prophylaxis should be administered in exposure settings that include infants younger than 12 months or pregnant women in the third trimester. For postexposure prophylaxis, the recommended antimicrobial agents and dosing regimens are the same as those for pertussis treatment.<br><br>
...<br><br>
From Johns Hopkins Medicine: <a href="http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/heic/ID/pertussis/" target="_blank">Pertussis</a><br><br>
- Pertussis is highly contagious; secondary attack rates may exceed 80% among susceptible household contacts.<br>
- Transmission occurs by direct contact with respiratory secretions or large aerosol droplets from the respiratory tract of infected persons, although it is rarely airborne.<br>
- The period of communicability starts with the onset of the catarrhal stage and extends into the paroxysmal stage.<br>
- In adults, 20-47% of those exposed to the disease develop infection.<br><br>
...<br><br>
From DrGreen.Org: <a href="http://www.drgreene.org/body.cfm?id=21&action=detail&ref=46" target="_blank">Fast Facts about Pertussis</a><br><br>
People who have been exposed to probable or confirmed pertussis should either receive a course of preventative antibiotics (and I say this as someone strongly opposed to the overuse of antibiotics), or be kept home from daycare, school, or work for at least 2 weeks.<br><br>
...<br><br>
From the CDC, Division of Bacterial and Mycotic Diseases: <a href="http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/diseaseinfo/pertussis_t.htm" target="_blank">Pertussis</a><br><br>
Like measles, pertussis is highly contagious with up to 90% of susceptible household contacts developing clinical disease following exposure to an index case.<br><br>
...<br><br>
From Orange County Public Health Services, Epidemiology and Assessment: <a href="http://www.ochealthinfo.com/epi/pertussis.htm" target="_blank">Pertussis, Disease Prevention<br></a><br><br>
Asymptomatic close contacts, including household contacts and others who have had face-to-face contact with a symptomatic suspect or confirmed case of pertussis, should receive prophylaxis for pertussis if within 21 days of cough onset in the index case<br><br>
...<br><br>
From Medscape Today: <a href="http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/549508_2" target="_blank">Pertussis, Epidemiology and Transmission of Disease</a><br><br>
Contact with infected adolescents and adults is a common source of B. pertussis infection in infants and unprotected, young children. Widespread silent transmission of pertussis within families has been reported.[20] In a study of risk factors for pertussis-related hospitalizations, siblings were the most common source (53%), followed by parents (20%), other relatives (12%), neighbors (8%), and day-care contacts (3%).[21] In a case-control study, infants of adolescent mothers (aged 15 to 19 years) were 6-fold more likely to contract pertussis, compared with infants of older mothers (aged 20 to 29 years)<br><br>
...<br><br>
From the San Francisco Department of Public Health, Communicable Disease Control and Prevention: <a href="http://www.sfcdcp.org/index.cfm?id=94" target="_blank">Pertussis (Whooping Cough)</a><br><br>
Persons who have had close contact with an infectious case of pertussis are recommended to receive antibiotic medication to prevent infection. Close contact is defined as sharing toys, food, or utensils, face-to-face contact, direct exposure to cough, sneeze, or secretions, or sharing a confined space for over one hour. Antibiotics are effective for prevention if begun within 3 weeks of the exposure to pertussis. The use of preventive antibiotics is especially important in families with young children and in childcare and healthcare workers who could transmit infection to vulnerable populations such as infants, the immunocompromised, and those with chronic lung diseases.
 

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Having been through micoplasm pneumonia though, and now knowing that Pertussis is something that will respond to antibiotics (thank-you Chrisstiana), I'd be trying to prevent anything that can screw up a family member's ability to breath by taking the preventative meds.<br><br>
Probiotics can help with some of the potential side effects of the abx.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks! I think I have read most of those actually! ug! I wonder how my 4 yo who has 3 dtap's will react? I wonder if she will get it, get it worse or not get it at all..........oh lord I cannot wait until this waiting of an extra week is OVER OVER OVER!
 

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<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Crisstiana</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7270704"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Pertussis is caused by a bacterium: Bordatella pertussis<br><br>
---<br><br>
Hi, Kelli:<br><br>
Sounds scary. I hate using antibiotics as well, but it might be a consideration, especially for the baby. Here's some research to think over. Hope it helps.<br><br>
...<br><br>
From Medscape Today: <a href="http://japan.medscape.com/viewarticle/519699" target="_blank">CDC Revises Pertussis Guidelines</a><br><br>
Factors determining whether postexposure chemoprophylaxis is needed include infectiousness of the patient, intensity of exposure, potential consequences of severe pertussis in the contact, and possibilities for secondary exposure of persons at high risk from the contact, such as infants younger than 12 months. The benefits of reducing the risk for pertussis and its complications should be weighed against potential adverse effects. Postexposure prophylaxis can prevent symptomatic infection in asymptomatic household contacts if administered within 21 days of onset of cough in the index patient.<br><br>
Symptomatic, coughing household members of an index patient should be presumed to have pertussis. Because infants younger than 12 months, especially those younger than 4 months, can have severe and sometimes fatal complications from pertussis, postexposure prophylaxis should be administered in exposure settings that include infants younger than 12 months or pregnant women in the third trimester. For postexposure prophylaxis, the recommended antimicrobial agents and dosing regimens are the same as those for pertussis treatment.<br><br>
...<br><br>
From Johns Hopkins Medicine: <a href="http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/heic/ID/pertussis/" target="_blank">Pertussis</a><br><br>
- Pertussis is highly contagious; secondary attack rates may exceed 80% among susceptible household contacts.<br>
- Transmission occurs by direct contact with respiratory secretions or large aerosol droplets from the respiratory tract of infected persons, although it is rarely airborne.<br>
- The period of communicability starts with the onset of the catarrhal stage and extends into the paroxysmal stage.<br>
- In adults, 20-47% of those exposed to the disease develop infection.<br><br>
...<br><br>
From DrGreen.Org: <a href="http://www.drgreene.org/body.cfm?id=21&action=detail&ref=46" target="_blank">Fast Facts about Pertussis</a><br><br>
People who have been exposed to probable or confirmed pertussis should either receive a course of preventative antibiotics (and I say this as someone strongly opposed to the overuse of antibiotics), or be kept home from daycare, school, or work for at least 2 weeks.<br><br>
...<br><br>
From the CDC, Division of Bacterial and Mycotic Diseases: <a href="http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/diseaseinfo/pertussis_t.htm" target="_blank">Pertussis</a><br><br>
Like measles, pertussis is highly contagious with up to 90% of susceptible household contacts developing clinical disease following exposure to an index case.<br><br>
...<br><br>
From Orange County Public Health Services, Epidemiology and Assessment: <a href="http://www.ochealthinfo.com/epi/pertussis.htm" target="_blank">Pertussis, Disease Prevention<br></a><br><br>
Asymptomatic close contacts, including household contacts and others who have had face-to-face contact with a symptomatic suspect or confirmed case of pertussis, should receive prophylaxis for pertussis if within 21 days of cough onset in the index case<br><br>
...<br><br>
From Medscape Today: <a href="http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/549508_2" target="_blank">Pertussis, Epidemiology and Transmission of Disease</a><br><br>
Contact with infected adolescents and adults is a common source of B. pertussis infection in infants and unprotected, young children. Widespread silent transmission of pertussis within families has been reported.[20] In a study of risk factors for pertussis-related hospitalizations, siblings were the most common source (53%), followed by parents (20%), other relatives (12%), neighbors (8%), and day-care contacts (3%).[21] In a case-control study, infants of adolescent mothers (aged 15 to 19 years) were 6-fold more likely to contract pertussis, compared with infants of older mothers (aged 20 to 29 years)<br><br>
...<br><br>
From the San Francisco Department of Public Health, Communicable Disease Control and Prevention: <a href="http://www.sfcdcp.org/index.cfm?id=94" target="_blank">Pertussis (Whooping Cough)</a><br><br>
Persons who have had close contact with an infectious case of pertussis are recommended to receive antibiotic medication to prevent infection. Close contact is defined as sharing toys, food, or utensils, face-to-face contact, direct exposure to cough, sneeze, or secretions, or sharing a confined space for over one hour. Antibiotics are effective for prevention if begun within 3 weeks of the exposure to pertussis. The use of preventive antibiotics is especially important in families with young children and in childcare and healthcare workers who could transmit infection to vulnerable populations such as infants, the immunocompromised, and those with chronic lung diseases.</div>
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I second all the above. When I first read your subject line I was thinking someone in your family had just been exposed to pertussis and you were all supposed to take antibiotics. In a case like that, I'd say no way. We had that situation. A kid at my dd's preschool had it and the entire preschool was being prescribed antibiotics. My child wasn't even in the same classroom for goodness' sake. I didn't put her on antibiotics. But this is a different situation. If I had a young baby at home and an immediate household member sick with diagnosed pertussis, I would opt for the antibiotics. Understand, we rarely use antibiotics. But there are times when they are genuinely useful. I think sometimes people carry things to far in deciding that antibiotics are always bad. They're not. They're often misused and frequently have negative consequences b/c of misuse. But there are times when when appropriately used antibiotics are very helpful and even lifesaving. Your baby might not get pertussis. And even if he did, he might do fine. You could take a "wait and see" approach and give him antibiotics if he actually gets sick. But you can also greatly reduce the chances of him getting sick at all. If you decide not to do it, just keep a close watch for signs of developing the cough and fever and such, and have him checked sooner than you normally would if you thought it was just an ordinary cold.
 

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I agree with Crisstiana.<br><br>
We put ds on antibiotics so he would not be contagious. I watch other children in my home & didn't feel it was fair to them.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks so much for asking.....this is what would be day 13 of "since the symptoms began" and over the last few days, cough is all but gone and changed significantly in character...not the "stacato" or cough after cough after cough thing anymore. Throughout the week it's slowly gotten better and she is her old self except for a leftover runny nose!!!!!!!!!!!!<br><br>
OMG was I more than relieved! I even told my mom (who passed away when I was young and I go to for guidance a lot) I'd go to church if she made it out of this without wc! (and I am not a religious gal)!<br><br>
I'll get back to you more later......can't type much or i'll wake up my older dd who has suddenly spiked a 105 fever.....ug.<br><br>
thanks to everyone for your advice and support....i'll update more later as soon as i can.<br><br>
hug hugs hugss and many many thanks
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>girlsmamma2</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7335788"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Thanks so much for asking.....this is what would be day 13 of "since the symptoms began" and over the last few days, cough is all but gone and changed significantly in character...not the "stacato" or cough after cough after cough thing anymore. Throughout the week it's slowly gotten better and she is her old self except for a leftover runny nose!!!!!!!!!!!!<br><br>
OMG was I more than relieved! I even told my mom (who passed away when I was young and I go to for guidance a lot) I'd go to church if she made it out of this without wc! (and I am not a religious gal)!<br><br>
I'll get back to you more later......can't type much or i'll wake up my older dd who has suddenly spiked a 105 fever.....ug.<br><br>
thanks to everyone for your advice and support....i'll update more later as soon as i can.<br><br>
hug hugs hugss and many many thanks</div>
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<br>
Glad to hear she's doing better. I'm sorry you now have another sick dd. When it rains, it pours, right? If you don't mind, I'll say a prayer for your family too. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug">s Do keep us posted.
 

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Whooping cough<br>
The best non toxic way of dealing with this is via homeopathic remedies.<br>
There are many that may help so finding the correct remedy is a bit tricky. A simple case of whooping cough should subside with a remedy called droseria.<br>
In low potency like 6C. If this is taken and nothing happens then other remedies obviously need to be addressed. If the case is difficult you need to see a trained classical homeopath neer you.<br>
Taking many doses of vit C hourly also helps.......................Putting people on antibiotics for this or anything else is harmfull to the immune system. Many adverse reactions from the antibiotics,not such a great idea. Best to use holistic medicine for coughs.<br><br>
Tyler
 
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