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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I had someone ask me on another board if there are any SID-kids who were not vaccinated and regrettably mine both are so I thought htis would be a good place to ask.<br><br>
Is there a connection between vax and SID that anyone knows of?<br><br>
Are there any non-vaxed kids around with SID?
 

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My first son was vax'ed until age 2, and is SID/Asperger's. My dh and bil are both SID/Asperger's too but also fully vaxed. Get back to me in a few years, when ds2 gets a bit older, and I'll let you know if he's SID, he's nonvaxed completely. Whether or not he is SID is still debatable (he's 1yo). Also there has been a link between SID and circumcision (my ds1 is cut, ds2 is not)<br><br>
Misty
 

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basically it's partly theory, no one wants to do a true study on it, but the theory goes like this: Baby is born, and then in the first few days of life, goes through this very traumatic painful experience that turns on primal parts of the brain in the infant, involving mutilating his sexual organ. He is strapped down, no one is saving him, bright lights, etc. After circumcision the newborn is so traumatized they go into a deep sleep. the extreme sensory overload from the circumcision overloads their already immature processes, and causes a short circuit in a part of the brain no one completely understands. the result, is SID from birth, which if you ask a parent who thinks their child was SID from birth, if they were circ'ed they most certainly will say yes, whereas most parents of SID kids do not notice any SID responses until later in the first or second year (when vaxing, not sure about non vaxing, the reasons we think INTACT UNVAXED ds2 may be SID have nothing to do with the symptoms we saw in DS1)<br><br>
hth<br>
Misty
 

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Misty I think that theory makes sense and is probably true for most circed boys with SID. My ds1 has SID and is intact but was vaxed on schedule. I'm not really sure when his symptoms started showing up, but he was a colicky baby and was just overall fussy. My ds2 has been vaxed on a much more selective schedule. He didn't get anything until 6 months old, and so far he does not have as many sensory issues as his brother does. He's also only 2, and most of ds1s problems showed up after age 3.
 

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Ah Ha! I have 3 sons. My oldest is 15 years old and was circumcised (I didn't know any better <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> ). My 3 1/2 year old is intact and so is my 10 month old. My 3 1/2 year old is diagnosed with Aspergers and has definite sensory issues. He was vaccinated until he was 23 months. When I started learning about SID, I realized that my oldest (also vaxed)has a mild form. Mostly with food/eating and textures. Also, when he was smaller, he couldn't tolerate crowds or noisiness <i>at all</i> . I have memories of him walking around with his ears covered. My 10 month old is intact and vax-free.
 

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I can't answer for the SID-vax connection because both of mine are vaxed (dd2 on delayed schedule) and both were dx with SID. However in their case we feel very strongly that it's inherited from dh's family. Based on long talks with MIL about behavior, and her reading the material and seeing our kids, she says that dh and one of his cousins were the same way. Both got better with age. One other second cousin has autism. We feel that there is a strong connection between the reflux my dd2 suffers from, and the SID issues. My dh is intact but was vaccinated for everything available at the time. He grew up in India.<br><br>
One other thing comes to mind. My dd1 had her first febrile seizure at around 6 weeks old the day she got a shot. She spiked a high fever and had a small seizure. She and dd2 have both had them several times with med-high fevers. Not sure if it's related to vax because I know some kids just are prone to getting them. The other seizures that happened in both kids were not related to shots at all. They happened during illness. Dd2 does not get shots on schedule, only when she's feeling well and it's not flu/cold season, so I know her seizures are seprate from the vax.<br><br>
Not discounting the vax-circ-SID connection at all, but in this country the majority of boys were circed and vaxed and SID is not a wide-spread problem.
 

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Interesting thread. I don't get a chance to post often--when I do, it's so cool to read good interesting threads.<br>
My situation: my dd who is 4 is not vaxed and has SIDs.<br>
But she also had a g-tube and severe reflux. So I would have to venture a guess that PTSD played some sort of a role--all the doctor visits since birth due to feeding problems. As for the docs/peds--it was actually a really good ped who suggested we delay vaxing due to all the other problems she was having.<br>
She'll probably get vaxed starting this year in order to move us towards the (possible) school process (I haven't decided totally how she will be educated at this point).
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>GranoLLLy-girl</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">She'll probably get vaxed starting this year in order to move us towards the (possible) school process (I haven't decided totally how she will be educated at this point).</div>
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FYI you don't need to vax to attend public school all states with the exception of WV and MS have a religious exemption (don't need to be religious to claim this exemption either), and many states offer a philosophical exemption too. Pop by the Vaccine board for more info.
 

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basically I think there is a genetic suseptibility for SID, and that the circumcision damage, traumatic birth damage (i.e. c/section, induction, forceps, anything other then NATURAL GENTLE NORMAL birth at home), vax damage, etc, all trigger the children who are genetically suseptable and turn their SID switch from "off" to "On". This is not an uncommon idea, as I have an autoimmune disease called Ulcerative colitis. My disease has a genetic predisposition (my grandfather, aunt, and father all have it) however it also has an "on" "off" switch, it was turned "on" for the first time by the MMR booster to go into college. This has been confirmed through biopsy of my colon where they find active measels in the ulcers. I also have a disease called "ankylosing spondylitis" which is also an autoimmune disease. this disease has a genetic marker called the HLA-B27 gene. people WITH this gene don't ALWAYS have AS, but it's much less likely to have true AS WITHOUT the gene. the disease always has something that turns it from "off" to "on" in the affected person. Make sense?<br><br>
hth<br><br>
Misty
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">basically it's partly theory, no one wants to do a true study on it, but the theory goes like this: Baby is born, and then in the first few days of life, goes through this very traumatic painful experience that turns on primal parts of the brain in the infant, involving mutilating his sexual organ. He is strapped down, no one is saving him, bright lights, etc. After circumcision the newborn is so traumatized they go into a deep sleep. the extreme sensory overload from the circumcision overloads their already immature processes, and causes a short circuit in a part of the brain no one completely understands.</td>
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birth is often a very painful experience for a baby period. From getting squeezed for a few hours, birth strokes for babies are not uncommon, clamping a cord too quickly...I also having circ'd both sons (dh choice...) did not see any trauma on the level I was told to expect, my sons were given pain blocks, pain medication for after, didn't cry for the procedure nor act differently afterwards... they were not strapped down to anything but dh held them (I said if he was going to choose to circ he was going to watch and participate so that he could explain to his sons why he did this to them we can't win every battle...)If this theory is true is SID more common in jewish and muslim peoples who do practice circumcision on practically all children?<br><br>
interesting but would the same hold true for any child in a nicu? or who had surgery shortly after birth? But would there not be more ( I dont' know if there is or isn't) SID adults than children today as my dh was circ'ed without any painmeds period..open wound type as well.<br><br>
But I do think your theory has merrit not based on just circ, but I wonder if a child's brain is reprogrammed by pain, cio, isolation, not fed on demand, held etc if they might be more prone to distrusting their environment, they might become hyper sensitive to outside stimuli as they were afraid and distrustful of new things...and that early on that would rewire their brain... all that being said though my mom was crunchy ap, and ds was raised same way..<br><br>
I have SID my son does. I personally think its a bit more genetically how our central nervous systems are put together, I think though that some children you can damage their processing and result in the same thing. But in ds and myself I see it more as 'temperment' we are just more sensitive to sounds, lights, we feel deeply about things, sensitive period.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Shiloh</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">birth is often a very painful experience for a baby period.</div>
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Pain in birth is NATURAL it is how evolution (or God if you would rather) intended for babies to come. It is not UNNATURAL which is what circumcision is.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Shiloh</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I also having circ'd both sons (dh choice...) did not see any trauma on the level I was told to expect, my sons were given pain blocks, pain medication for after, didn't cry for the procedure nor act differently afterwards... they were not strapped down to anything but dh held them (I said if he was going to choose to circ he was going to watch and participate so that he could explain to his sons why he did this to them we can't win every battle...)If this theory is true is SID more common in jewish and muslim peoples who do practice circumcision on practically all children?</div>
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I don't know if SID is off hand, but I do know that the most volatile three groups of people overall, the isreali's the americans, and the muslims, all circumcise as matter of course, the only three groups in the world that do (not stereotyping, just saying on a whole).<br><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Shiloh</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">interesting but would the same hold true for any child in a nicu? or who had surgery shortly after birth? But would there not be more ( I dont' know if there is or isn't) SID adults than children today as my dh was circ'ed without any painmeds period..open wound type as well.</div>
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Yes, children in NICU's as well as c/s'ed children, are more likely to have SID, proven by study.<br><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Shiloh</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I have SID my son does. I personally think its a bit more genetically how our central nervous systems are put together, I think though that some children you can damage their processing and result in the same thing. But in ds and myself I see it more as 'temperment' we are just more sensitive to sounds, lights, we feel deeply about things, sensitive period.</div>
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perhaps your son has SID because of the circumcision. How could you know? you don't, and neither do I. I was offering a possible cause of SID, a peice to the puzzle that is autism spectrum if you will, which is not unrealistic. You said your son was given pain medications, trust me, those injections HURT when it's NOT in the most sensitive area of your body. I greive for what your son has lost, and the fact that you talk about it like it really wasn't a big deal. you cut off almost half of his functioning penis, and for what?<br><br>
anyway, this wasn't a circumcision thread, so I'll stop there, sorry for going off topic a bit.<br><br>
Misty
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Shiloh</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">interesting but would the same hold true for any child in a nicu? or who had surgery shortly after birth?</div>
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Yes, NICU babies and babies with health issues such as heart surgeries, and so on are very very likely to have sensory issues if not full-blown SID.<br><br>
FWIW my dh's birth was very difficult. Water broke for 2 days, and by the time he was born she had no fluid left. He was a true dry baby with wrinkled skin that peeled off after birth. He had severe feeding aversion and reflux (did not take bottle or breast from age 2-8 mos and was fed by dropper), had feeding issues until he was about 10, and SID-dy behavior issues too. His sister had an easy birth and has never had any problems at all.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>MistyMM</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I don't know if SID is off hand, but I do know that the most volatile three groups of people overall, the isreali's the americans, and the muslims, all circumcise as matter of course, the only three groups in the world that do (not stereotyping, just saying on a whole).<br></div>
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Misty, you are right this is not a circ forum and we should try to stay on topic. Just FYI though, most Muslims traditionally circ when the boy is much older, not at infancy. It's the early exposure to pain that affects the brains and nervous systems of babies, be it a traumatic birth or a surgery or health condition or abuse. During that most crucial time the brain is so sensitive.<br><br>
My dd2 has very little hunger cues. When she's sick or teething, or if things are not going just right for her, she has none. That part of her brain was turned off by pain at 2-3 mos old and she has never shown normal hunger cues. She can literally starve herself to death if we let her. From what I have been learning recently, if hunger does not develop by 8 months old, it may never be normal for the rest of the person's life. In the same way I believe that early trauma can cause parts of the brain to be turned off or injured to the point where it affects the way the body feels and processes other kinds of sensory information such as pain, orientation, sound, lights, etc.
 

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Thanks for the vax info--will check it out.<br>
I agree with USAmma (I usually do)---and just for added info--my dd had a traumatic birth, c-sec, nicu--whole nine...and was a post-due baby--so it's not just preemie babies who have feeding tubes and trauma.<br>
I think the reflux is not due to the birth trauma (it is a separate issue altogether), but I do think that the SID is due to both the birth trauma and the reflux--now that I think about it. My dd still has SIDs, but it's so much better and she was a g-tube baby for quite a while and didn't speak until she was almost 3.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Hmmmm, lots of food for thought here.<br><br>
My firstborn was overdue, breech, c-section and then was hopsitalized with an infection at 2 months old, lots of needles and pain. I don't remeber what she was like before this since it is a blur of sleep deprivation for the first 18 months.<br><br>
My second was GD born by c-section at 39 weeks. Pretty healthy and happy, but had some early nursing issues. She became very stranger shy at about 3 months and began having rages at about 9 months. At first I thought I had a "normal' child because she seemed so much easier than her sister, but now that she is almost 2 I think her issues may be even more severe than her sisters.<br><br>
So the PTSD theory makes sense to me with my first, but a possible connection to vax would make more sense to me with my second and the whole genetic thing makes sense to me all the way around since I have ALOT of sensory issues as does my sister, husband, nieces and nephews, etc.<br><br>
I also read somewhere about physical ailments being connected to SID such as fibromyalgia and joint problems.<br><br>
Does anyone know more about this too?
 

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Well, I have joint problems, but I'm not sure how that would relate to SID. I think most joint issues are autoimmune related.<br><br>
About the traumatic birth, ds1s birth was more traumatic than either of my other kids. All were unmedicated at a hospital, but ds1 had the cord wrapped around his neck and was dusky when he came out. It took him a little while to pink up and the nurse had to give him blow by oxygen.<br><br>
Ds has been FTT for years and we still don't know why. We thought it might be reflux, but I'm wasn't convinced that was his issue so I took him off the meds. It could be because of the SID, but he seems to eat like most other kids, he's just not a big eater. I was a really picky eater as a child and didn't eat much either. I had read that vaxes can cause FTT too, so I wondered if that was why. Ds2 also became FTT at around the same age as ds1, but was vaxed a lot more selectively. The only difference is that ds2 is now back on the chart, and ds1 is still FTT. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> This thread has given me lots of things to think about. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Ruby Pearl</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I'm sorry but what is FTT?</div>
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Failure to Thrive, or failure to gain weight
 
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