[Leiahs]

I sent my sister a wonderful package about a month ago. A few hand-picked articles, the Mothering circumcision reprint, religious pamphlets, and a TOTALLY heartfelt letter explaining my turnaround on the issue. And I included it with a box of baby boy clothes that cost me $38 to ship.

I also followed up with a link to the story of the death of the Canadian boy.

Today I get an email, which frankly, I almost expected. My sister is in her very young twenties, got pregnant on almost an impulse after a scare (they weren't trying, originally), and just seems way too immature to me to really be ready to be a parent. But she will be, and very soon.

She and her husband have decided to "do the surgery", because to them, "it feels like the right thing". And then she says thank you for the information, taking time to send emails, and sorry I forgot to call you on your birthday. Laughs about me getting so old (?? 27??) and says talk to you soon!

:

I know I need to follow up. How would YOU do it? This is my second sister I've tried to reach and reason with. My other sister had already circ'd one boy before I researched circ, and her UA husband thought it was funny to joke about my intact son not being "part of the covenant", so those two complications kept her from being reached. But this sister, man, I feel like such a failure already.

: The only person I've ever convinced is a friend who only has girls and may not have any more children.

I can't stand the thought of another nephew being carved up to suit societies stupid STUPID <insert words I never say here> "ideals" about how little boys should look in their PRIVATE parts.

I feel like shooting back and email saying, "Oh really? You feel its right for YOU? You and your husband? What do you think your unborn son feels is right for him?"

But I'm refraining for now...maybe that approach would be a mistake. Man, I even included in my letter my mother's letter of regret to me.

I totally feel like this is a "my husband is circ'd and wants it, so I'm not fighting it" deal.

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[InfoisPower]

Quote:

I feel like shooting back and email saying, "Oh really? You feel its right for YOU? You and your husband? What do you think your unborn son feels is right for him?"

I'd feel exactly the same way, in fact I probably would shoot off my big mouth and say just that.

Have you tried, "Would you feel the same way were the baby to be a daughter? If not why not, if it is a cultural norm?

Kudos to you for being such a caring sister and auntie!

 

[tuansprincess]

I sent a very researched e-mail to a friend and got a snotty reply. I am sending another one - sending her everything I can thing of and not sugar-coating anything. I will let you know how that approach works. Maybe I can undo the doc's fear-mongering with some of my own.

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[titania8]

"yea, i can see how that would feel like the right thing to do. i mean, its not like you care about what the baby has to say on it. and it is you who is going to have to look at the hideous organ for what, 5 whole years??? god, how could you stand it? nevermind that it will hurt him, its not like you know him and care about him yet anyway, right? "

sorry, im feeling cranky.

that is probably not what i would say, but i would want to.

 

[LavenderMae]

I would email more info and ask her to please reconsider and let her son decide for himself. I would send her the link that explains why so many men are so adament that their sons are circed like them (I'm sorry I don't have that link handy). I would send her a link to circ complications and a video.

I hope they will really think about it and in the end decide not to do it.

You should be proud that you are doing your best to inform people!!

 

[Neth Naneth]

How frustrating, perhaps if you sent her a link to a video she would be more inclined to look at the "operation" for what it is. Hopefully she read the articles that you sent, I can't imagine why she didn't change her mind. Talking on the phone might also help, because you could answer questions she has. I mean if she said that it is cleaner, you could reassure her that is a myth. If she brought up UTI then you could explain that the chances of an intact male getting a blatter infection is 1 in 100, which can be cured with antibiotics and you could point out that the risk involved in circ'ing for complications are 2-10%. I was 20 when I had my DS, he is intact, so it is possible to educate her regardless of age. I feel for you though, I really hope she changes her mind.

 

[Tinker]

If you have already gently provided info, I would send her the video. Just tell her if she's sure that's what she wants to do, then she needs to watch this. That's what I would do.

 

[Jasmyn's Mum]

I think if the video doesn't do it, I don't know what would

 

[myfairbabies]

I know how you feel. Dh's sister is pregnant (not sure of the sex yet) and she and her dh want to circ. She's even watched a video!

: She said she wanted to throw up, but apparently, her dh's need for them to match trumps her son's well being. I'm still going to try though, actually, dh and I are going to work on him now, since I think she would do whatever he wanted (she's kind of like that).

 

[Microsoap]

I don't think this will sway her and I doubt it's allowed it that UA to tell you what I think about her and her husband, but that Canadian boy who died because of his circumcision probbably looked A LOT like this boy:

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...c-db175d596a97

You leave him intact, you avoid this. These pictures are tragic, as is the death of the boy in the Canadian case.

 

[tuansprincess]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheacoby should look like. Hope this helps.

 

[Leiahs]

Guess what, I sent her 2 videos with my information packet. One was the D.O.C "The Prepuce" video (I love it because it shows just how worthwhile the foreskin actually is), and also, I think it was the 5 or 10 min version of the really horrible makes-you-wanna-puke circ video.

I *honestly* doubt she gave anything but a cursory glance at anything I sent her, based on her reply.

I am thinking of taking the daughter approach. I think I saw someone say on this forums something like, "Imagine you had a newborn daughter. When she's born, you count every finger and toe, everything's there, everything's perfect, and you breathe a sigh of relief. Then suddenly you find out something is wrong, and the day after her birth you have to send her in for surgery. You are frought with worry, so much that you can't sit still and you're maybe even crying. Now imagine that you have a perfect newborn son, and the very day after his birth, you willingly send him in for cosmetic surgery. Why wouldn't you have the same emotional reaction?"

I want to bite her head off, really. Make her understand how flippin' angry this attitude makes me, and from my own little sister!! I think I might just ask her to explain more for now, and see what I have to work with (to the tune of, "Oh really? Just what makes you think it's good for you guys? What sort of thought and research have you put into it? It better be a dang good excuse, because you'll have a lot of explaining to do when he's older."). If it's just "because DH says so" I might become really nasty. Which I've never done to a family member in my life. But it took someone being completely frank with me for me to really start realizing what was wrong with the whole idea. I also wonder if my mom, who I don't think is anti-circ but still regrets how upset she became after my brother's circ, would be willing to talk to her. But since she caved to my dad back then, I'm not sure she would be a good advocate for standing up to a DH issue, which is what I think it is. (Sis is probably thinking that *he* has nephews that are circ'd, *she* has nephews that are circ'd, so it's just the "normal" thing and heck, you gotta be mainstream, right?)

Good heavens, I'm so upset I'm shaking while I type. BTW, CalenandEllasmomma, thank you for the PM. I will definitely share your story with her and send on the offer for someone to talk to.

 

[Leiahs]

Ooh, Tuanprincess, you posted the same time as I did. But you remind me -

Isn't there an article out there somewhere about how boys generally don't know the status of their fathers, or some sort of research about how they are emotionally (non)affected by the difference in status? Man, this is really vague, isn't it? I feel like I've just read it within the last couple weeks, though.

 

[nd_deadhead]

Leiahs, I understand how you feel. I tried to get my SIL to consider not circumcising (my brother never listens to a word I say), but of course it was done anyway. I did try this:

If you insist on having your baby boy circumcised, PLEASE make sure he gets adequate pain relief - both EMLA cream AND a dorsal penile nerve block. They won't eliminate the pain, but they will reduce it. Make sure you and/or DH stays with him at all times, to make sure the anesthetic gets administered, and to make sure the doctor gives it enough time to take effect (imagine a dentist drilling immediately after a Novacaine shot!)

The doctor probably won't tell you that he will not remove all the foreksin, but will leave quite a bit for your son to grow into. He might not even look circumcised to you, once the wound has healed. Doctors started performing "loose" circumcisions in response to the number of men who experience lifelong problems with painful erections, due to too much foreskin being removed. Some parents go so far as having their sons circumcised AGAIN, because it doesn't "look" right to them; I wish doctors were more upfront with parents about what to expect.

Because of this remaining foreskin, the risk of adhesions (where the foreskin tries to heal itself back onto the glans) is increased. Many doctors recommend pulling back the remaining foreskin an applying Vaseline at eery diaper change. If adhesions form anyway, LEAVE THEM ALONE! Eventually most adhesions will release (certainly be puberty). Some doctors and parents insist on tearing adhesions apart, which is not only very painful, but creates a new open wound, which is a potential site for infection and scarring.

Of course in the first few weeks you want to watch very carefully for signs of infection. Also bring him in IMMEDIATELY if there is more than a few drops of blood in his diaper.

About the time your son starts potty learning, watch for signs of meatal stenosis. This is a narrowing of the urethra, caused by scar tissue forming around the opening. Normally the foreskin protects the urethra; meatal stenosis is found almost exclusively in circumcised males. Watch for a very forceful urine stream, or other evidence of restricted flow. Sometimes the restriction is so severe that surgery is required to open it up again.

Leiahs, if that doesn't scare her off, at least you'll know you did everything you could to make sure your nephew gets pain relief, hopefully minimize his chances of other problems. And as to your question - my DH and his brother (both circ'ed) were in their 40's when they learned that their father had been intact! Our sons noticed that their Dad's glans was exposed, but they just assumed that he kept his foreksin retracted - it NEVER occurred to them that his foreskin had been cut off!

 

[Tinker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nd_deadhead Leiahs, I understand how you feel. I tried to get my SIL to consider not circumcising (my brother never listens to a word I say), but of course it was done anyway. I did try this: If you insist on having your baby boy circumcised, PLEASE make sure he gets adequate pain relief - both EMLA cream AND a dorsal penile nerve block. They won't eliminate the pain, but they will reduce it. Make sure you and/or DH stays with him at all times, to make sure the anesthetic gets administered, and to make sure the doctor gives it enough time to take effect (imagine a dentist drilling immediately after a Novacaine shot!)

And did they stay with him?

 

[nd_deadhead]

I have no idea. They live 2 states away, and we have only seen them once since the baby was born. I don't know my SIL well at all, and in the interest of family harmony I simply can't bring it up. It would break my heart if she smiled and said "Oh, he was only gone 10 minutes, and he was sound asleep when they brought him back to me!"

My 12-year-old twin sons will be spending a week there in June - they might say something, since they were as disappointed as we were that they circumcised the baby.

 

[Leiahs]

nd_deadhead, can I copy/paste what you said there into an email to my sister if she persists in this stupidity?

I have to tell you all, I spent most of last night awake and mentally typing hate mail to my sister, and mentally cutting off all family ties, I am so distraught over all of this.

 

[titania8]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leiahs nd_deadhead, can I copy/paste what you said there into an email to my sister if she persists in this stupidity? I have to tell you all, I spent most of last night awake and mentally typing hate mail to my sister, and mentally cutting off all family ties, I am so distraught over all of this.

i can't imagine how hard this must be for you. i fear i will be following in your footsteps in a year or so though. sigh. why does this have to be so hard? why is it legal to do this to babies? or anyone for that matter.

:

 

[Tofu the Geek]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leiahs BTW, CalenandEllasmomma, thank you for the PM. I will definitely share your story with her and send on the offer for someone to talk to.

I was going to tell you to send your sister this mama's story, so I am glad that CalenandEllasmomma sent you a PM!

 

[Tinker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nd_deadhead I have no idea. They live 2 states away, and we have only seen them once since the baby was born. I don't know my SIL well at all, and in the interest of family harmony I simply can't bring it up. It would break my heart if she smiled and said "Oh, he was only gone 10 minutes, and he was sound asleep when they brought him back to me!" My 12-year-old twin sons will be spending a week there in June - they might say something, since they were as disappointed as we were that they circumcised the baby.

Oh I hate that!!!! I had a "person" (for lack of more appropriate wording) Tall me that she couldn't watch her sons circ because it was "just too horrible to watch".

Well if it was too horrible for you to watch, how do you think it was for him to have to endure? Oh I just can't even pretend to like her anymore.

And good for you boys if they do say something. *sigh* even If we don't save 1 baby now from suffering, at least we know our children will NEVER do this to theirs.