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So, today I had a wic appointment, and they weighed DS, and he has not gained much over the past two months. They got all crazed, and I tried explaining that I have not started solids yet because I was doing the allergy diet, and I didnt want to get confusing results. They acted like I was insane and started talking about grinding up meat to feed him, and I was just like ???, what?

I have been frustrated about it all afternoon. I know they didnt understand, they are like, beside themselves that I have an eight month old that isnt on solids. I have tried a little banana before, and he was not real interested. Should I be shoving it down his throat?!

The guy kept talking about protein, and I told him that I was re-introducing things back in. I kept talking about him rashing, but I dont think he understood how bad it gets. I know I just seemed crazy, I even said, "I know I seem crazy, but I have been dealing working on this for the past 4 months or so, and I have seen such improvement with diet alteration."

They just made me feel like a bad mom. So I came home, made some applesauce, and I guess I will try feeding it to him tomorrow. I am just really frustrated and angry about it all.
 

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I'm right there with you... only DD's 10 months now, so I'm really feeling the pressure. So I started trying a few bites of solids again with her.... and what do you know, she had a reaction to chicken.
: So now we're off solids completely again. I figure she's still good with EBF for at least a couple more months, even according to the experts (like Dr. Sears), so everyone else can just kiss my
.

I also feel the pressure for DD's slow weight gain too... she still hasn't even doubled her birth weight (although she did start out really big).

You're not a bad mom. You're an exceptional mom that is doing everything she can to make her baby better!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks
I needed to hear that. I cant even sleep tonight, I just feel restless! DS has more than doubled his weight, but he only weighed 5.12, so that isnt saying much. How much does your dd weigh?

My son is happy, he has rolls on his legs, his skin is looking better (clearing after a soy attempt). Why does it have to be such an issue...I could understand if he was behaving abnormally or something. This one nutricianist said I should wake him up and feed him at night. He still wakes usually one time a night, but a lot of times two. I just got him sleeping after months of 5-6 times per night, why the HELL would I start waking him up? I feel like I am finally making some sense out of this allergy stuff, He is sleeping well at night AND taking naps, I am not going to start messing his sleep up on purpose!
 

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I will tell you my story FWIW.

I saw a ped. GI at 8 mo. DS had doubled his birth weight by then but his weight had slowed down & he'd dropped from about 50th% to 25% or so, maybe less. The GI was mortified that I hadn't started solids. For no other reason than I was going to "miss the window" of interest. Whatever.

After that appointment we discovered my son had a posterior tongue tie. We had it clipped & hoped his weight gain would improve. it didn't. However, he's been insanely active since about 5 months old when he started to crawl. Hadn't been to the doctor since I was afraid. We went to the doctor & DS was just shy of 17lbs. Off the charts for his age. It was very disheartening. The doctor checked for blood in the stools (there was none) & recommended we start feeding him solids. Since we aren't at baseline I was reluctant to follow his advice. However, I checked in over at POFAK and there someone explained that due to the restrictive diet it is possible that my milk is less dense than it should be. I know some people don't believe this but I do. My milk looks thin & not as creamy as is should be. You can't get blood from a stone & I've been on a restrictive diet for close to 8 months now.

Anyhow, malabsorption was raised as a possiblity as well since DS still has some mucous in his diapers. I believe this could be a possibilty & we decided to try elemental formula. Unfortunately, DS would have none of it. He put some in his mouth, made a face and let it dribble out. I am against the flavored elementals because they have artificial sweetener so I am stuck trying to find another formula solution. I am currently looking into a rice based one (not elemental) that someone mentioned here.

We also decided to try solids. We made an attempt with applesauce & pear sauce.. However, in thinking about it and what was said at POFAKI decided that wasn't the way to go. My boy needs FAT. He needs to be taking in more "dense" calories, if that makes sense. His stomach can only hold so much volume so the volume that goes in must be full of good calories & fat. BM supposedly has 20 cal/oz. He needs something at least that dense if not moreso. So I decided to try coconut milk yogurt. I make my own. It's cultured so easier to break down & very dense. He like it ok and would take a couple of tablespoons a day. His poop improved for several days. We've done that for a week.

Today we are going to try avocado, which is also very dense with lots of good fats. We'll do that for a week. Then I'm thinking about egg yolks or ground meat. I really think the key for DS is going to be fats. So pureed fruit & veggies will just not cut it.

Now, if you are still with me, I will add that DS looks great. Although small he is perfectly proportioned. He has been on time or early for all his milestones so far. He's been walking for several weeks (started just shy of a year) & I frequently get asked how old he is b/c I'm sure people think he's a walking 8 month old. I'm told the heirarchy for using calories is: major organs, development, length & then weight. So obviously DS has enough calories for at least the first two. He has gotten longer. He's just a little short to gain weight.

Anyhow, I just wanted you to know I am in the same boat and what I decided to try. I have done the TED, allergy testing, ALCAT testing, slaughtering a chicken under a moonlit sky, chiropractic, CST, etc. , etc. Nothing has worked so now we're trying this.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by matey View Post
Thanks
I needed to hear that. I cant even sleep tonight, I just feel restless! DS has more than doubled his weight, but he only weighed 5.12, so that isnt saying much. How much does your dd weigh?

My son is happy, he has rolls on his legs, his skin is looking better (clearing after a soy attempt). Why does it have to be such an issue...I could understand if he was behaving abnormally or something. This one nutricianist said I should wake him up and feed him at night. He still wakes usually one time a night, but a lot of times two. I just got him sleeping after months of 5-6 times per night, why the HELL would I start waking him up? I feel like I am finally making some sense out of this allergy stuff, He is sleeping well at night AND taking naps, I am not going to start messing his sleep up on purpose!
That's crazy- obviously if he was hungry at night, he would be waking up himself.
And I don't get that either- if a baby is meeting all milestones, and is otherwise healthy and happy- why do these docs make such a big frickin deal about the weight gain? Actually, our ped (who I hate, am looking for a new one...) is less concerned about her weight gain than I am... but all the other docs we've seen have been concerned (not to mention family, friends, etc...)

DD is now about 18 pounds, and started out at 10.3. So I know she started big, so the doubling weight isn't as important so soon... but she's gone from the 97th percentile for weight to the 25th.
Height has gone from the 95th to the 30th I think. So at least she's proportioned... maybe she's just meant to be small.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I liked the part about slaughtering a chicken


Ok, so I guess what you saying makes sense, If I just start giving him applsauce, that wont cut it, because that isn't what he needs. One lactation consultant I once talked to said my diet would have little affect on milk, but I think I may disagree too. All major protein is out, with the exception of meat, which isn't an everyday occurance around here. Now his weight gain is down, so doesnt it make sense that it all goes together?

Jack is in the 5th percentile of a 7 month old. He is actually 8 months old, but he was a month early and is measured on a 7 month scale. He had been in the 25th percentile, and actually, he is still in the 25th for height. The other thing is, his dad is 5'6 and 145 pounds, so he isnt coming from giant genes or anything.

I think we are going to get some avacado too, and start getting the fat in there. I am re;uctant to start meat, and my dh is very opposed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by changingseasons View Post
That's crazy- obviously if he was hungry at night, he would be waking up himself.
And I don't get that either- if a baby is meeting all milestones, and is otherwise healthy and happy- why do these docs make such a big frickin deal about the weight gain? Actually, our ped (who I hate, am looking for a new one...) is less concerned about her weight gain than I am... but all the other docs we've seen have been concerned (not to mention family, friends, etc...)

DD is now about 18 pounds, and started out at 10.3. So I know she started big, so the doubling weight isn't as important so soon... but she's gone from the 97th percentile for weight to the 25th.
Height has gone from the 95th to the 30th I think. So at least she's proportioned... maybe she's just meant to be small.

That is the only thing that has concerned me, the percentile dropping. He was low tostart, but keeps getting lower.

Last night he woke up 4 times, I'm not sure why. I guess he was hungry, and he did a lot of errands with me without much play time. But I agree, if he is hungry, he will wake up, it isnt like when he was a newborn.
 

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We have the same issue here, with one complicating factor - dd has Turner Syndrome so slow growth is to be expected. Even with that the pediatrician and even more so the GI were stressed beyond belief that I wasn't doing solids by 6 1/2 months.

Well, we finally reached baseline and started solids (actually we had been doing sweet pots and squash prior to that) around 1-1.5 months ago. Now at 9 1/2 months she has 2-3 meals a day of sweet pots, squash, pears, apples, or avocado. She has gained over a lb in that period where she had been holding steady at 14.2 lbs for over 2 months prior. I believe the weight gain now can be attributed to 2 factors - no more mucousy / bloody diarrhea and the addition of the solids. Even more exciting, she seems to be growing in height too where she had been holding steady at 24.5 inches.

So I really recommend the sweet pots - their packed in nutrition and very low on the allergen list - if you feel you really should do something for solids. But I think its a judgement call - many babies will do fine without the solids. I personally was worried about my milk quality too so I wanted to do something. Also, Ellie was so bummed to be missing out on the fun and I felt bad for her.

I think your ds will catch up once you get to that ever elusive baseline.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Well, I did end up buying and avacado. i mashed it up with some breast milk and he had a little. He just tasted it and made funny faces, but opened his mouth for several little bites. I guess were on the solid train. I am kinda sad. I feel like it is opening up this whole new world, and I was really content being his one and only.
 

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My DD got no measurable amount of calories from solids until she was one. She wasn't interested and was very gaggy. All of a sudden, one day she was ready to eat and we've taken it from there. I do not think pushing it is important at all. Your child will eat when he's hungry as long as the opportunity is there. If he knows how to ask for milk, perfect! If you want to offer him little bits of food a few times a day and see what he does, great. But no need to force solids and try to just ignore the little bugs in your ear. I know it gets annoying. You are the best judge of his health and well being and if you think he's fine I'm sure he is.
 

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Oh, this sounds so familiar.

I won't share my whole story, because I'll never get it posted, but basically people at the hospital when DS was sick (dehydration due to rotavirus) FREAKED when I said DS was essentially EBF because I was slowly introducing solids via BLW. He was 9 months. I would toy with some stuff I gave him (pear, banana, avocado for instance), he didn't like applesauce (didn't like spoon feeding at that time), and I was scared to try sweet potato bacause I had eaten so much on my ED. After 4 months, he had consistently dropped in his percentiles IRT weight, but then everybody was using the formula charts. But, hello, he has a chronic condition/allergy! My holistic ped was also big on him getting more solids, and she heavily recommends flaxseed oil and CLO if not allergic to fish. MY DS will take them straight, although I mixed heavily with EBM at first.

I did get CPS called on me, don't know if that was due to the solids thing or not (there were some other possible issues). There was no mention about window, just that it wasn't enough nutrition after 6 months.

So, feeling the pressure (and my supply was dropping!), I decided to be more aggressive about offering solids and I some herbs to increase my supply as I had lost a lot of weight and the stress and all...

Anyway, he took to solids big time after a couple of weeks and ate more as time went on. I did intro some foods a bit quickly as we had a rotation diet from his ELISA test, but he's been doing great. If we didn't have those ELISA results though I don't know what I would have done.

This reply has been sitting here a few days, I hope any has been helpful!
 

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OMG your babies are so young! It's crazy that y'all are getting all this pressure. Matey, you are doing a fabulous job taking care of your DS. You all are SO awesome and in-tune with your LOs... you all understood that your babies had allergy issues and you've been working on them diligently for so long. You all are super awesome mamas. Take me on the other hand, who didn't figure out the allergy thing until he turned 1
, and tried weekly to give my LO solids from 6 - 12 months old and just was baffled as to why the heck he didn't want to eat them even though he seemed interested, or why he vomited them, or why he gagged on them. My DS, by the way, was 14 months old before he started eating an appreciable amount of solids.

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Originally Posted by DoulaMary View Post
My DD got no measurable amount of calories from solids until she was one. She wasn't interested and was very gaggy. All of a sudden, one day she was ready to eat and we've taken it from there. I do not think pushing it is important at all. Your child will eat when he's hungry as long as the opportunity is there. If he knows how to ask for milk, perfect! If you want to offer him little bits of food a few times a day and see what he does, great. But no need to force solids and try to just ignore the little bugs in your ear. I know it gets annoying. You are the best judge of his health and well being and if you think he's fine I'm sure he is.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
 

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Originally Posted by chlobo View Post
Mary,

How did you know she was ready?
She actually started to self feed instead of looking at us like we were crazy when we put small pieces of food in front of her. That was definately the biggest indicator. She had been hugely interested in food since around 5 months (she had her first food at 6 months) but most times we tried - even with many purees - she would just gag and frequently puke due to the gagging (and also would not self feed even though she seemed SOOOO interested in food). We got the message quickly and totally backed off but continued to offer her small bits of food. FINALLY one day she just started eating! Now she self feeds with her hands and also she feeds herself with a fork and spoon if we put each bite on there for her.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Well, in regards to the weight charts, I did find some info on kellymom about those charts being more geared toward formula fed babies and that breast feeding babies do dip i n those charts alot. I sent the info to the WIC nutritianist. He was surprised to hear from me, and said it was pretty uncommon. Well, I am not your traditional mama I guess!

DS has been doing great all weekend and eating his mashed avacado. He had his first tastes on friday and saturday and sunday he was opening up his mouth. So, hopefully this will help him, if anything just to balance out what i am lacking nutritianlly now.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by matey View Post
Well, in regards to the weight charts, I did find some info on kellymom about those charts being more geared toward formula fed babies and that breast feeding babies do dip i n those charts alot. I sent the info to the WIC nutritianist. He was surprised to hear from me, and said it was pretty uncommon. Well, I am not your traditional mama I guess!

DS has been doing great all weekend and eating his mashed avacado. He had his first tastes on friday and saturday and sunday he was opening up his mouth. So, hopefully this will help him, if anything just to balance out what i am lacking nutritianlly now.
Guess I spoke too soon. Tonight's meal involved gagging and throwing up.
 

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I won't get started on the "intelligence" of so many WIC reps. I've had my go-round. But just wanted to add my 2'cents about the slow weight gain. If he's looking good, and your doc thinks he's progressing, don't sweat it. Believe it or not, he will thrive w/o all the charts. And BM is sufficient for at least the first year; there are regions around the world that don't offer solids until closer to 2 years. At our house, we don't do well-baby visits and our family doc doesn't "grade" our babies growth. He approaches it more holistically - he looks at everything: sleep, happiness, appearance, vitality, alertness, etc.

From what you're saying, your baby is happy and healthy and thriving. Don't sweat the WIC folks. They tried telling me my baby was fat when our family doc clearly felt he was just right.
Trust your mom-tuition.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by matey View Post
Well, in regards to the weight charts, I did find some info on kellymom about those charts being more geared toward formula fed babies and that breast feeding babies do dip i n those charts alot. I sent the info to the WIC nutritianist. He was surprised to hear from me, and said it was pretty uncommon. Well, I am not your traditional mama I guess!
This was going to be my point. I know many folks say they can tell a BF'd baby just looking at them. I think the shape may be different, like longer and leaner. There is SO much variation, I feel like a huge range should be tolerated as normal...and LaurieG made a good point, when bowel trouble is present, there's lots of loss of nutrition going on, when it stops, gaining is easier. I feel you should follow Doula Mary's advice and let your heart and your observations determine when solids are appropriate. Will thinning the mash help with the gagging? You are doing a great job. This is hard stuff.


P.S. - even Gerber will admit nothing beyond bmilk is required the first year.
P.P.S. - WIC may still be using the old food pyramid (derived to fatten cattle)
:
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bens_mommy_2005 View Post
I won't get started on the "intelligence" of so many WIC reps.
No kidding... last time I went to WIC (which was a while ago, since DD is allergic to everything they give you, so I figured why bother...) the "nutritionist" was asking if I drank alcoholic beverages, and I said yeah- every so often. So she proceeds to tell me that I need to pump and dump for at least 24 hours after having ONE drink, because that's how long it takes to get the alcohol out of your body.
I'm like- are you kidding? The average adult can metabolize like one drink per hour. She didn't believe me.
:
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Honestly, the only reason I go is to get his weight to put in his baby book. I mean, we do use the carrots and eggs, but right now we dont even use most the food. I just want to complete his baby book.
 
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