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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i don't know if this is the right place to post, as it's a somewhat broader issue than just my partner. but here goes anyway...<br><br>
i'm feeling SO angry and frustrated a LOT of the time lately. I find it hard to keep track of time but it's been more than a month of feeling this so frequently. I'm finding myself getting really worked up about silly little things and venting my frustration with sound, which obviously alarms poor DS, and I so don't want to be like this around him. I keep thinking I need to control myself better, but it's like this FURY. Basically, I feel fine when I'm out and about meeting other mothers or friends, or even shopping or whatever, but as soon as I'm at home, I can't avoid the thoughts I'm having anymore, and I feel overwhelmed by them.<br><br>
I keep coming back to the fact that my partner does so little to help me with DS. We've discussed it a million times and nothing fundamentally changes. He thinks he does enough because he does an equal amount of housework (sometimes more). DS is pretty intense the past 2 months bc of the separation anxiety stuff kicking in, and unfort, partly i think bc DP has never taken the time to really form a relat. with him, he only responds to me - so when he wakes up for the fourth time in half an hour in the early evening, sometimes i just want to tear my hair out. If I ask him, DP will intervene, but he very rarely volunteers, or sees things that need to be done, IYKWIM? He also frequently doesn't get round to, say, bathing the baby, or changing a blatantly dirty nappy, until he's 'finished having a ***' or 'having a coffee' or whatever. Which drives me nuts. He has responsibility for DS for a whopping 2 hours a week when i go to teach yoga, and i usually come back to find them sitting next to each other watching TV (which i've discussed that i dont want DS to do till he's 2). SIgh. We are going to counselling but we can only afford 5 sessions and have had 2 already. i'm just feeling so often that i'd be better off living in a community of women than here, where i have no support. i think not having DTD in nearly 2 months contributes to the resentment too. anyway, thanks for listening.
 

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Dh used to be like this - probably worse actually.<br><br>
About the child cleaning thing. I blew a freakin' gasket on him about it. Like, "What sort of person leaves a helpless child sitting in their own sh*t? What the hell is wrong with you?" "I see - so you can not have your bunch of pixels die, you let YOUR child sit in real sh*t. Good to know that how you value your family buddy."Kind of deal.<br><br>
He was pretty ashamed when I did so. He didn't stop it completely, but he did pull it up a bit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Demeter9</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11549914"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Dh used to be like this - probably worse actually.<br><br>
About the child cleaning thing. I blew a freakin' gasket on him about it. Like, "What sort of person leaves a helpless child sitting in their own sh*t? What the hell is wrong with you?" "I see - so you can not have your bunch of pixels die, you let YOUR child sit in real sh*t. Good to know that how you value your family buddy."Kind of deal.<br><br>
He was pretty ashamed when I did so. He didn't stop it completely, but he did pull it up a bit.</div>
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Exactly. Good point. Your DH used to be like this? How did he change?<br><br>
I was talking to a friend y.day who has two - a baby and a three year old, and she said her DP came a long way between the two, in understanding that when he does something like change the baby' s nappy or whatever, he's doing it for his child, NOT for her. It's not like, say, doing the dishes when you know your spouse has had a long day. It's also about the relationship with the child. That's what I think he doesn't get. It always turns into me asking a 'favour' sort of thing. Which makes me madder.
 

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My DH didn't get better until our third child.<br><br>
He did not like feeling compelled to do things. I have a post in here where I describe the gist of the plan I went with to change things, but I can't find it right now. I think I called it the Non-Talker Talks. The search function is down.<br><br>
This particularly issue though - I did two different things.<br><br>
I usually gave him about 5 minutes to deal with the issue. Then I took our child who need attention and made it VERY clear I was NOT impressed.<br>
"Pixels or sh*t*y diaper. Hard choices, being a parent."<br><br>
I also spoke about how he WANTED to be a good Dad, but then wouldn't put in the work because it felt like he was REQUIRED to. That if he didn't WANT to be required to be a Dad, then he should never have married me or had childen with me and that he was welcome to LEAVE.<br><br>
I didn't expound upon it at length though. I REALLY REALLY wanted to. Just say it and leave it. He didn't LIKE it, but he is FAR FAR better father now.<br><br>
I also give good feedback when he does good Daddy things. Honey on the babies head for the bear you know.<br><br>
God this man has ben a lot of work. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/nono.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="nono"><br><br>
And yes, do frame things as Him for Children. I don't know WHY doing things my way or for me is such a big honkin' deal that he has to prefer throwing himself quietly over a cliff rather than listen to my "hey there is a cliff there" but that is the way it is.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Demeter9</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11550960"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">My DH didn't get better until our third child.<br><br>
He did not like feeling compelled to do things. I have a post in here where I describe the gist of the plan I went with to change things, but I can't find it right now. I think I called it the Non-Talker Talks. The search function is down.<br><br>
This particularly issue though - I did two different things.<br><br>
I usually gave him about 5 minutes to deal with the issue. Then I took our child who need attention and made it VERY clear I was NOT impressed.<br>
"Pixels or sh*t*y diaper. Hard choices, being a parent."<br><br>
I also spoke about how he WANTED to be a good Dad, but then wouldn't put in the work because it felt like he was REQUIRED to. That if he didn't WANT to be required to be a Dad, then he should never have married me or had childen with me and that he was welcome to LEAVE.<br><br>
I didn't expound upon it at length though. I REALLY REALLY wanted to. Just say it and leave it. He didn't LIKE it, but he is FAR FAR better father now.<br><br>
I also give good feedback when he does good Daddy things. Honey on the babies head for the bear you know.<br><br>
God this man has ben a lot of work. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/nono.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="nono"><br><br>
And yes, do frame things as Him for Children. I don't know WHY doing things my way or for me is such a big honkin' deal that he has to prefer throwing himself quietly over a cliff rather than listen to my "hey there is a cliff there" but that is the way it is.</div>
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DP has the exact same thing - if you ask him to do something, he'll take even longer to do it. Make it it like it's 'his idea', and bam, he does it. In my mind that is so childish.<br><br>
I think also what's happening here is a bit of stuff coming up from when he was 'displaced' by his younger sister being born when he wasn't yet two. He always says it was too early and that his whole little world was destroyed. His mom has said he found it difficult to adjust and reacted 'badly'. A key comment the other day from him was that he feels he has one tiny corner of the bed, and no corner of the home to call his own (i don't know what he calls the couch and the tv, where he spends hours every night, but i sure don't spend any time there), and it was like that petulant child was coming out in him. I think he struggles with the fact that there is a small person whose needs come first, and its like a power thing sometimes - 'you'll just have to wait, i'm first going to do what <i>I</i> want to do...' He's very rarely selfish w.r.t <i>me</i> and does lots of stuff for me, but when it comes to DS, the extra mile is not something that comes in.<br><br>
I admire the fact you were able to be so firm with your husband. I tend to try and be 'accepting' and gently make requests, but after a few days/weeks i sort of explode. which isn't healthy. I need to come up with a better strategy. in some ways i feel i'm just torturing myself by comparing him to other dads i know who are WAY, way more hands-on (and yes, also have full time jobs, etc) but I can't seem to let go on it and just give up. I had a dream for my family, and this ain't it! ANyway, ramble over. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/eyesroll.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="roll">
 

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I was WAY too accepting for quite some time. Then I would explode.<br><br>
The problem was that MY boundaries were WAY out of wack. So I was accepting and understanding about him crossing boundaries.<br><br>
Then I would think that he KNEW how bad he was being about it. So he would appreciate my understanding acceptance, and he would correct it given that.<br><br>
Then when he was so far over my boundaries that I couldn't stand it anymore, and he was so invasive of my sense of self and my sense of right, that I would blow a freakin' fuse out in my head. I would have my self-protection instincts activate, and I'd fight to "stay alive" essentially. Remain who I am in the face of someone who was willing to swallow me alive.<br><br>
Thing is that my husband did NOT appreciate it. He did not even notice it. He felt totally entitled to everything and anything. Parenting and otherwise. My acceptance taught a good man to be bad, by rewarding his worst traits.<br><br>
It is important to realize that most people have a sliding sense of integrity, that is firmly attached to what they get out of any given thing. Even good people<br><br>
The crux of the changes did actually come from me. I re-assessed my boundaries, and my acceptance of the unacceptable. Then I laid them down and stuck to them. It was hard. I was very disappointed that he didn't just do the right thing because it was the right thing to do. So very very disappointed, and angry about it. In the long run, my asserting and defending realistic fair boundaries in our relationship has made me a better person and him a MUCH better father and husband.
 

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As a further note, one of the best phrases in the english language for this sort of thing is -<br><br>
"That is unacceptable."<br><br>
No further follow up on the phrase is necessary or desirable.
 

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Please please do not have another child with this man UNLESS he changes. It may well be that other men have changed their tune, but you can't know he will until he does. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug"> mama
 

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subbing to come back and read later<br><br>
For the OP <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug">
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Demeter9</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11552090"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I was WAY too accepting for quite some time. Then I would explode.<br><br>
The problem was that MY boundaries were WAY out of wack. So I was accepting and understanding about him crossing boundaries.<br><br>
Then I would think that he KNEW how bad he was being about it. So he would appreciate my understanding acceptance, and he would correct it given that.<br><br>
Then when he was so far over my boundaries that I couldn't stand it anymore, and he was so invasive of my sense of self and my sense of right, that I would blow a freakin' fuse out in my head. I would have my self-protection instincts activate, and I'd fight to "stay alive" essentially. Remain who I am in the face of someone who was willing to swallow me alive.<br><br>
Thing is that my husband did NOT appreciate it. He did not even notice it. He felt totally entitled to everything and anything. Parenting and otherwise. My acceptance taught a good man to be bad, by rewarding his worst traits.<br><br>
It is important to realize that most people have a sliding sense of integrity, that is firmly attached to what they get out of any given thing. Even good people<br><br>
The crux of the changes did actually come from me. I re-assessed my boundaries, and my acceptance of the unacceptable. Then I laid them down and stuck to them. It was hard. I was very disappointed that he didn't just do the right thing because it was the right thing to do. So very very disappointed, and angry about it. In the long run, my asserting and defending realistic fair boundaries in our relationship has made me a better person and him a MUCH better father and husband.</div>
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the integrity thing is so so true. and yes, it is so disappointing. i've made a list of stuff like this that i want to talk about in counselling. unfort. i've been distracted by DP's intellectual 'bamboozling' - he can say all the right words, is very articulate, seems very emotionally literate, etc - in the sessions and i think nothing's really being addressed.<br><br>
Laoxinat, no, definitely no other kids planned... i should've seen the warning signs when DP was just so un-interested during my pregnancy (even tho it'd been his idea to have a child in the first place, I wanted to but not just yet), but i still thought he'd 'come around', people told me once the baby's born the man often sees things differently. now its: he'll be a better father when DS is older, when he can engage with him more, etc. I don't know. I'm just not convinced anymore that anything's gonna change. I'm kinda tired of having to always be the one to address things, you know? and try to change things... it's so draining. But I gather it's the case for a lot of men-women relationships . anyway, thanks everyone for your input.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Devaya</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11557105"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Laoxinat, no, definitely no other kids planned... i should've seen the warning signs when DP was just so un-interested during my pregnancy (even tho it'd been his idea to have a child in the first place, I wanted to but not just yet), but i still thought he'd 'come around', people told me once the baby's born the man often sees things differently.</div>
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GAH! I hate this! It is the ultimate in passive aggressive! And once the mama HAS the baby SHE becomes the bad guy when expecting help/involvement/support. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug"> mama And remember, though defnitely not easy, single mamahood can be far preferable to dealing with a PA Dad. And as far as frustration about lackanookie is concerned, a trip round to your local sexshop for a toy or two can really really help <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/whistling.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="whistle"> I'm just sayin'...
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
sorry but what does PA dad stand for?<br><br>
yday's couples counselling was disappointing. well, intense, and i got a chance to express a lot of stuff, but for the 2nd time i felt the counsellor invalidated/minimised what i was saying and tried to palm it off on just being a new mother and this causing anger, etc. I feel sad that she hasn't seen through DP's tactics. Maybe we should 've gone to someone who's more qualified in addiction issues, as i don't think she's aware of how addicts can make things twist around (well, anyone can, but esp addicts).<br><br>
basically, DP insists that he is totally on board with the childcare, and in his version of reality, he is totally participating. We are at an impasse here.<br><br>
I'm going to start setting clear boundaries/goals, as in, every time he is off work or only starts work later in the day, he needs to take DS off my hands for at least an hour. OUT of the house, not in the house, as then he just ends up handing him over to me the minute he cries, etc. I think this vague 'you need to do more' stuff is getting us nowhere. We need measurable stuff that i can actually point to and say, this is or is not happening. and i need to start writing stuff down again, bc he keeps contradicting what i know to be reality. E.g. a few days ago i suggested we put our mattress on the floor as we co sleep and DS is getting more and more mobile, so not safe anymore. He agreed enthusiasticaly and said he prefers the bed to be low down anyway. then i brought it up again a couple days later, as in, should we do that soon, and he denied ever agreeing to it, and was hotly opposed to it. SIgh. this is what i have to deal with. He really seemed to have no recollection of his earlier comment. it is so confusing to live with. anyway, i think he did finally 'hear me' y.day at the session, bc afterwards he was subdued and looked close to tears, and said it looked as if i didnt see anything good in the relat, and got nothing out of it. it's stuff i've said a million times, but i think in that context he really had to just listen and not argue back.<br><br>
anyway i'm just thinking aloud here. it really helps to have a sounding board, as so many other people around me seem to think 'oh well, just accept it, move on, deal with it' and are very passive with their partners.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Devaya</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11557105"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">i've been distracted by DP's intellectual 'bamboozling' - he can say all the right words, is very articulate, seems very emotionally literate, etc - in the sessions and i think nothing's really being addressed.</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/jaw.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="dropjaw"> This is so dh and I'm tired of feeling <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/hopmad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hopping mad">. I am learning a lot here. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/notes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="notes">:
 

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PA= passive aggressive. Your mattress example. Gah! Again! If your DH is able bodied and not diagnosed with a serious mental disorder, you shouldn't have to micromanage. I can give you solutions, because they'd be mine, but personally I'd rather be a single parent than put up with this.
 

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you descibed my DH to a t however that is spelled. I keep telling him our relationship died the day i got pregnant. I dont know where my DH went that day but he hasnt been back since. Instead there is this really shi*%& person in his place. He is completely careless and self centered and can not put his needs away for 5 sec to think of me or the baby. lets not talk about how horrible he was when I was in labor or the weeks after baby was born. It has gotten better but honestly its too little too late. Im just so sick of it.<br><br>
I wish I could say it will change but I just dont see it happening. I have gotten to the point, in my situation where we have decided to stay together because that is what is best for DD and somewhere I love him but I really dislike him on a daily basis.<br><br>
I am happiest when I just meet my own needs. Because I feel like I sleep, eat and breath DD and DH. Every breath i take i think about how it affects him. I try to make his day better in any way I can and he does the same, for him. I think of him and thinks of him and im just done with that. And when I am in this mood where I just dont care anymore I am happiest. I don't clean FOR HIm I only do what I want as far as cleaning (DH is ocpd so he will clean obsessivelly, so why should i clean when he will redoo it anyway) I dont do ANYTHNG that is not solely for me or the baby and thats it. He tends to TRY harder when I do this all the sudden.<br><br>
I also need to come up with some concrete things he needs to do to help and stick to them. I have done this in the past and it has helped for maybe a day but he thinks then its over he changed a daiper 3 days ago so he's freaking father of the year. ERRRR ok i dont mean to hijack haha Im just venting<br><br>
I meant to say I hear you and youre not alone haha and I really rate to your post and thank you for it! Although I am sorry you are going through that.<br><br>
If you come up with some concrete things he can do tohelp please share your list <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I am happiest when I just meet my own needs. Because I feel like I sleep, eat and breath DD and DH. Every breath i take i think about how it affects him. I try to make his day better in any way I can and he does the same, for him. I think of him and thinks of him and im just done with that. And when I am in this mood where I just dont care anymore I am happiest. I don't clean FOR HIm I only do what I want as far as cleaning (DH is ocpd so he will clean obsessivelly, so why should i clean when he will redoo it anyway) I dont do ANYTHNG that is not solely for me or the baby and thats it. He tends to TRY harder when I do this all the sudden.<br><br>
I also need to come up with some concrete things he needs to do to help and stick to them. I have done this in the past and it has helped for maybe a day but he thinks then its over he changed a daiper 3 days ago so he's freaking father of the year. ERRRR ok i dont mean to hijack haha Im just venting<br><br>
I meant to say I hear you and youre not alone haha and I really rate to your post and thank you for it! Although I am sorry you are going through that.<br><br>
If you come up with some concrete things he can do tohelp please share your list <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"></td>
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thanks for that.What you said about meeting your own needs hits the nail on the head for me. I've been thinking a lot about this the last couple of days, and i realise that i really have given DP the power to make or break my happiness. I've been wasting so much emotional energy on being miserable. But it's hard to break out of sometimes, when you're in it.<br><br>
Anyway I am making a list currently of concrete things I want to ask him to do. So far:<br>
1) Take DS for a walk for an hour every day he is not working, or let me go out for an hour while he takes care of DS. Also on days he starts work after noon.<br>
2) Spend a day as a family on at least one day of the week, including going out for at least a portion of that.<br>
3) For him to suggest things we do together once a month.<br><br>
Also, I am going to try and give DP more concrete time scales when I ask him to do something, as inspired by Demeter9's thread 'the non-talker talks' elsewhere on this forum. for e.g., 'would you take the mattress down by Friday?' instead of just asking him every day and him never doing it. He prob still won't do it, but i need to figure out what to do then!
 
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