[MyLittleWonders]

Dh and I are trying to become more GD with our kids (all boys - 5, 2 1/2, and newborn), and we are having *such* a hard time. It seems we have the mindset of either controlling or permissiveness. We bought AK's book Unconditional Parenting and the dvd, but I'm wondering if he is too big of a paradigm shift for newbies. We are having such a hard time w/our 5yo. He's developed quite an attitude, is extremely demanding, throws wicked tantrums when he doesn't get *his* way, and seems to try to find as many ways as he can to try to control life. I, for the most part, can sit back and try to see it from his perspective - I think he's trying to make sure he still has a say in this family (with the new baby born), still is loved as much as before, and that we have his back. But, we have no idea how to do that, and it seems even though the philosophy in UP resonates with us (well, me more than dh), we have no idea how to implement it or how what fits with it. For instance, do we still instill boundaries? Are there still non-negotiable things? Where does that line between living in harmony and being permissive come to play? I know AK talks about controlling vs. permissiveness being a false dichotomy, but for the life of us, we have no idea how to get past that and find the firm ground of GD. Dh just wants to get strict, enforce boundaries/rules, dole out consequences, and try to regain *control* of our house again. I can totally feel for him, and frankly, there are times it sounds really, really good. But, then I ask him (dh), what will we do in 5 years? What about when ds#1 is 15 years old? I feel like if we regress now, we are going to be in for it when ds hits his teen years and he becomes the *typical* rebellious teen. I so don't want that. I want a family that lives in harmony and peace with one another. A family where everyone feels valued and loved, and feel like what they feel and say matters. But I have *NO* idea how to do that. Is AK a bit on the extreme side for a family that is trying to learn the ropes of GD? I need someone to come live with us for a while and be the GD version of Super Nanny to help!

What do we do? Who do we read? This is so foreign to us and yet I don't want to keep on the path we are one (permissive until we can't take it any longer and then the control comes out). Can someone help?

 

[Aeress]

yes, you may find AK a radical change from where you are currently, but hang in there, you will begin to use parts of his beliefs here and there. I have read, re-read his book many times and watched the dvd and I am still working on using more of his beliefs in my day to day life. (oh and I get to meet him in a few weeks)

pick what you feel you can use and work on the rest...it will come...and I don't agree with absolutely everything....but I still find I can use most everything

 

[BellinghamCrunchie]

I don't have any answers because we are struggling with this exact thing, too. I understand the philosophy and I agree with it, but what does it look like when implemented? We end up being permissive until we can't stand it then being controlling out of necessity.

Not to hijack, but for example, DD (19 mths) does not want to ride in the car. She loves the park when we get there and she needs to get out and run around, but will never choose to get in the car herself. Ever. So I give her lots of transition time, tell her where we are going, give her a chance to get in the car, then eventually pick her up and strap her in while she mildly protests. She has toys and snacks galore in the car. So I wonder: does UP mean we don't go anywhere? Do we stay in our tiny house and yard until she is able to understand that getting in the car means going somewhere fun? Wouldn't it be better to use a reinforcer to encourage her to get into the car seat (oh no! not a reward!) than to pick her up against her will and buckle her up or never go ANYWHERE and have a crazy mama?

I don't think AK is too radical. I think we need more guidance in how to implement his ideas. Hopefully other posters will have some ideas for us.

 

[LynnS6]

I think that even for "old timers" to GD, more than one book helps. Unconditional Parenting is great for a mindset shift, and for creating a philosophy of WHY you are parenting the way you do. That philosophy is crucial as you continue, because it helps you evaluate what you're doing - is this "conditional" parenting or not?

But, philosophy alone doesn't get you through those temper tantrums.

So, I find that reading a lot of books has helped.

Some good books to try:
Becoming the Parent You Want to Be
Playful Parenting
Positive Discipline by Jane Nelsen -- she has books and some podcasts that you can download. Some people on this board find her approach to be more controlling than they like, but I find that especially for people who are moving away from punishment based discipline that her ideas really help.

Just as an aside -- I also find it useful when I'm trying to address issues in our family to address ONE thing at a time and build from there. It's too big a task to change everything at once and can seem overwhelming.

I also find it useful to post specific questions about situations that I'm struggling with to get other people's perspectives.

 

[maya44]

Best middle ground book IMO is hand down: The Secret of Parenting by Anthony Wolf:

This is a no punishment, no rewards, no threats but "be in charge" method of discipline

 

[mykdsmomy]

I think you can achieve peace and harmony in the home (but not 100% of the time because we're humans and not robots) with everyone feeling loved and valued and not have to give up total control and boundaries as the parent.....ok, that was a really long sentence so let me explain a little.

I've been reading about different parenting styles and talking to different parents about how they "discipline" their children. I see two extremes. I see the parent who feels the need to control their child's every action and thought and then the parent who hides behind gd and lets their child do anything without any regards to anyone else and how their behavior is impacting them.

I think GD is a spectrum and you (the parent) need to find where you and your family fits into it.

I try to set my children up for success, avoid conflicts, set boundaries and teach them to be sensitive to others feeling.
You have to lay a foundation.....what do you and your dh "expect" from your dc? Are you the type of person who needs a schedule? Do you want there to be specific bedtimes? Is their tv time going to be limited? Maybe if you work out the basics, then you can build on that?

If you choose consequences for your dc's actions, they dont need to be "punishment". If your ds is throwing a tantrum, then give him a place to be angry. He has every right to be angry and show his feelings but not if it's going to disrupt the whole household....so if he needs to yell or hit or whatever, then maybe his room , or somewhere he can "cool off" would be a compromise?

Honestly Brit....sometimes, I feel like we make this stuff up as we go along...lol....As the boys get older, things will change.....your family dynamics may change, personalities shift......the best thing we can do is lay that basic foundation for them so they know what to expect and what the consequences will be for their actions. Right now, they are exploring their limits with you guys. They also can sense the difference between you and DH as far as parenting. You guys have to show a united front...(not that it's you against them) but "divide and conquer" is something kids have done for ages....( i know....i did it...lol).

So bottom line is.....what does GD mean to you and dh? Can you see yourselves using AK as a parent guide for life or do you want to pick and choose and move on?

just remember....we're in this together and I love you!!!

 

[WuWei]

"for a family that is trying to learn the ropes of GD", I agree with maya44, Anthony Wolfe is an approachable place to start.

Pat

 

[Leatherette]

Personally, I think dogma sells books, and Kohn is a master. I find him to be way too "all or nothing", and I don't like that kind of thinking in any aspect of life.

I like to read his books to get "the other side of things" (as opposed to mainstream discipline advice books), but I take what I can use from it, and leave what will not work for my family. He raises many valid philosophical points, but his applications leave something to be desired from a reality perspective.

You can be consistent about what is non-negotiable without becoming dictatorial and controlling. When it comes down to it, there are so many things that we can be negotiable on. Remember that, and do what it takes as gently as possible to create peace for your family.

Best wishes. I have an almost 6 year old and almost three year old, and once the my daughter started to learn how to push her big brother's buttons (at about 2.5), it was hard to find equilibrium and peace again, but it's getting there.

L.

P.S. Don't know if this applies to you, but my son is trying to separate from me and identify with dad more at this stage, so we have worked hard to establish lots of special dad and son time. It also gives my husband time to appreciate my son one-on-one more, rather than just be frustrated with his behavior in the midst of entire family chaos.

 

[MyLittleWonders]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leatherette Personally, I think dogma sells books, and Kohn is a master. I find him to be way too "all or nothing", and I don't like that kind of thinking in any aspect of life. I like to read his books to get "the other side of things" (as opposed to mainstream discipline advice books), but I take what I can use from it, and leave what will not work for my family. He raises many valid philosophical points, but his applications leave something to be desired from a reality perspective. You can be consistent about what is non-negotiable without becoming dictatorial and controlling. When it comes down to it, there are so many things that we can be negotiable on. Remember that, and do what it takes as gently as possible to create peace for your family. Best wishes. I have an almost 6 year old and almost three year old, and once the my daughter started to learn how to push her big brother's buttons (at about 2.5), it was hard to find equilibrium and peace again, but it's getting there. L. P.S. Don't know if this applies to you, but my son is trying to separate from me and identify with dad more at this stage, so we have worked hard to establish lots of special dad and son time. It also gives my husband time to appreciate my son one-on-one more, rather than just be frustrated with his behavior in the midst of entire family chaos.

Makes so much sense ... and I think the same can apply to my son and dh about needing special time alone.

 

[Moochie Mamma]

To the OP: I totally relate. My kids are similar ages to yours and I've almost given up on UP. My 5yo has such attitude that seemed to get worse when we started UP so I went back to (very short) time-outs, in the same room with me. Basically just "I need you to sit down on that chair until you feel better and can be respectful". It works but I don't really like it. I'm going to check out some of the other books mentioned here.

 

[MyLittleWonders]

(Nak) We started reading through Becoming the Parent You Want to Be last night - I had bought it when I bought AK's book too. I think it is more what we need right now as it seems to have some good concrete help mixed with philosophy.

 

[Ellien C]

Try looking into Non-violenet communication as a way of phrasing true requests (as opposed to demands) to your 5 yo. It will give you a format to set your own boundaries while going hand-in-hand with AK. Since your 5 yo has language, you're acutally in a good place to work on communication. Marshall Rosenberg wrote NVC and Inbal Kashtan has some good pamphlets on the web specifically dealing with children. There are NVC practice groups and an NVC-parenting listserv that could be the next best thing to having someone live with you.

 

[MoonJelly]

I second the rec for Playful Parenting. Even though it's a bit early for us with just a 2-yo, I had that book checked out of the library and DH really responded to it.

 

[midwifetx]

I find Alfie to be more 'unparenting' than GD.

Playful Parenting is great, and practical.
Families Where Grace is in Place is also excellent.

 

[edswife]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BellinghamCrunchie for example, DD (19 mths) does not want to ride in the car. She loves the park when we get there and she needs to get out and run around, but will never choose to get in the car herself.

In UP Alfi Kohn himslef says that as they get older you have more options then just giving in or enforcing your will. At 19 months sometimes those ARE your only options. HOW you enforce your will is the important part. Do you ignore her screams and strap her in anyway or do you talk to her in a gentle manner while you put her in the seat? Do you try and distract her with car-only toys or a drink or do you not even try to make the transistion easier? Do you make mention that "we'll leave the park but we'll do something just as fun when we get home"? It isn't bribery if it isn't presented as "well do X when you do Y." As she gets older you'll have more options. But trying to impliment GD as often as you can now sets a firm foundation for later.

 

[BellinghamCrunchie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by edswife In UP Alfi Kohn himslef says that as they get older you have more options then just giving in or enforcing your will. At 19 months sometimes those ARE your only options. HOW you enforce your will is the important part. Do you ignore her screams and strap her in anyway or do you talk to her in a gentle manner while you put her in the seat? Do you try and distract her with car-only toys or a drink or do you not even try to make the transistion easier? Do you make mention that "we'll leave the park but we'll do something just as fun when we get home"? It isn't bribery if it isn't presented as "well do X when you do Y." As she gets older you'll have more options. But trying to impliment GD as often as you can now sets a firm foundation for later.

Wow, I DO do those things. I was feeling pretty badly about myself as a mom lately, and your post helped me quite a bit.

 

[SomedayMom]

I really like UP, but I need a little more guidance than he gives. I think Easy To Love, Difficult to Discipline is a really good book to go along with it. I have several others mentioned here, but that's the only one I've managed to get all the way through so far

 

[edswife]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BellinghamCrunchie Wow, I DO do those things. I was feeling pretty badly about myself as a mom lately, and your post helped me quite a bit.

back at ya! Glad I could help. I don't always remember that the littlest things count. And it's even more difficult to remember that at such a young age a lot of the GD suggestions really aren't practical yet. Ever tried explaning to a 19 month old why jumping up and down on the first of 15 stairs really isn't the best idea? Sometimes you just have to pick them up and make a HUGE deal about counting each and every step. LOL I'm more then willing to help him walk down but playing ON the stairs is something my nerves just can't handle.

 

[WuWei]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellien C Try looking into Non-violenet communication as a way of phrasing true requests (as opposed to demands) to your 5 yo. It will give you a format to set your own boundaries while going hand-in-hand with AK. Since your 5 yo has language, you're acutally in a good place to work on communication. Marshall Rosenberg wrote NVC and Inbal Kashtan has some good pamphlets on the web specifically dealing with children. There are NVC practice groups and an NVC-parenting listserv that could be the next best thing to having someone live with you.

Here are two articles from the NVC site: Raising Children Compassionately: http://www.cnvc.org/raisekds.htm

Compassionate Connection: attachment parenting and nonviolent communication: http://www.cnvc.org/motherin.htm

Pat

 

[WuWei]

Quote:

Originally Posted by midwifetx I find Alfie to be more 'unparenting' than GD.

Want to expound on that comment?

Pat