[StephandOwen]

We've all heard the horrible stories of kids (especially those with special needs) being locked in a windowless room at school, right?

We asked at the last meeting if ds's school has a room like this. We were reassured that no, they don't and they would never shut a child alone in a room/closet/etc.

Cool, right?

A couple months ago we got permission from the principal to visit the upstairs of the school once a week so I can walk ds around it and show him the library, cafeteria and kindergarten rooms to try and prepare him for fall when he starts (right now he's at a preschool at the same school).

A few weeks ago we were walking around the upstairs of the school and noticed a little room. I kinda peeked in to see what it was. I thought it was a janitor closet or something at first, but it was completely empty. There was a small desk outside of the room. There was a sign outside of the door that said "guidance resource" or something like that. Another teacher walked by so I left (didn't want to get in trouble for snooping around

).

Today I took ds on his little tour again. Again, we went by that room (because I'm a curious sort of mama

). This time I actually went into the room to see if there was something I was missing. It's a small closet type room with no windows (it's on the inside of the school, not on an outside wall). There was a small desk and chair in the corner. There were 3 posters on the wall. One said "No Kicking", one said "No Hitting" and the third said something about using a quiet voice. There's a tiny window on the door (one of those tall skinny windows) that had been covered with paper about 3/4 of the way up the window (so the majority of people wouldn't be able to see in the room without standing on a chair).

Please tell me I'm being paranoid and this isn't really fishy at all.

Even more important- can someone tell me how I can get it worded in his IEP that Owen is to NEVER be put in this room against his will (meaning unless he walks in there ON HIS OWN and WANTS to stay in there then he CAN NOT be brought/kept in).

We have a meeting with the school tomorrow afternoon to discuss transitions to Kindergarten, discuss the results of his FBA and change his IEP if needed.

 

[straighthaircurly]

Wow, I wish I could tell you that you are just paranoid, but I would be lying. I certainly think you should ask some direct questions about this. Do you know any other families who attend this school? Could you ask the kids if they know what that room is for? Even if a kid has never been in there, they might know the "rumors"...

 

[StephandOwen]

Not really. I don't really know too many people around here. I know one of the teachers at the school (she's the grandma of a little boy at the daycare I work at) but I don't think I can get much info from her. I doubt she'd tell me if anything bad were happening in there, to protect the rest of her co-workers. (Though she did hint to me that one of the K teachers would not "be a good fit" for ds and said she wouldn't put her grandson in that room.... good to know...)

 

[LynnS6]

I'd ask. Believe it or not, sometimes SLPs or other resource people who aren't in a school full time get put in converted closets, especially if space is tight. I know ESL teachers who've taught in closets before.

Get the room number/whatever the description is, and ask what it is. If it is indeed used for disciplining/time out, then I would insist that my child never be sent there.

 

[yarngoddess]

ooooo....CREEPY! I got shivers reading you're description! I've NEVER heard of something like that- except on movies! Of course I went to a school that's 1/8 the size of most schools. I hope you get an answer as to WHAT that room is used for, and post back here- I'm so very curious now!!!

 

[BookGoddess]

That gives me a bad feeling. I hope there's some rational good explanation for what you saw although I can't think of something at this hour. You said you saw a small desk. That would be too small for an adult? And why would they have posters like what you saw in there if the room is being used by an adult. It's very odd. I would definitely question what the room is for and who goes in there, for what reason, for how long, who is watching them during that time, etc.

 

[VijayOwens]

My thing is, why did they lie and say there isn't such a room when it seems that there is? Why not just say, "yes there is a time out room but it is only used in this or that situation, and it is totally humane, not like those horror stories you sometimes hear" rather than just say there isn't one?

What *else* would they lie about? That would be my concern.

(((hugs)))

-Vijay

 

[StephandOwen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BookGoddess You said you saw a small desk. That would be too small for an adult? And why would they have posters like what you saw in there if the room is being used by an adult. It's very odd. I would definitely question what the room is for and who goes in there, for what reason, for how long, who is watching them during that time, etc.

Yes, it was a small child size desk with a small child size chair. It's definitely not an office for an adult. Not to mention, I don't know why an adult would need those posters. If it's a room where SLPs or whatever bring kids to work- I don't see the need for the posters.

I will be questioning them further today at the meeting

Quote:

Originally Posted by VijayOwens My thing is, why did they lie and say there isn't such a room when it seems that there is? Why not just say, "yes there is a time out room but it is only used in this or that situation, and it is totally humane, not like those horror stories you sometimes hear" rather than just say there isn't one? What *else* would they lie about? That would be my concern. (((hugs))) -Vijay

That is EXACTLY my concern. They straight up told dp and I that they do not have a room like this. But, yet, it appears they do. I can almost understand the covering on the window if it's a room for SLP's to work with kids. I know kids often get distracted by things going on outside the room. The room that my ds gets speech in (his private speech) has paper covering the window on the door. BUT the paper has cut-outs that parents/adults on the outside of the door can move and peek in. The paper on the door at the school has paper on the inside of the door so if someone on the outside moves the paper they still can't see in the room because there is paper on the inside of the door.

 

[karne]

I would absolutely ask, no question about it. I would ask what the room is used for, who uses it, when and how often. I would specifically want to know if it is an instructional room, or is it used for isolation. Is the door kept open or shut, and who decides this? It is possible that it could be used for instructional reasons, as a resource room, or simply a place free of distractions. However, the posters on the wall have me thinking otherwise.

I have learned the hard way to ask all of the questions you possibly can. My dd received "remediation" at a private school, in a room that was out of the way of the rest of the school, and other adults. It was not a positive experience, to say the least. I would never allow it to happen again, so I am very clear about this. At our current PS windows are not covered, most work takes place in room with open doors, and parents are given really good access.

I have never thought about the IEP piece, but I think it's a wonderful idea. You know best how your child responds to certain interventions.

 

[AllyRae]

I don't know that it is even a "legal" room...doesn't any room have to have 2 exits in case of fire? I'd bring it up that the room is a fire hazard and I'd never want my child in there. In addition, one thing I learned in my sex abuse prevention training is that a student should absolutely positively NOT be allowed in a room where there was no way for anyone on the outside to see what's going on (no windows or covered windows for example)--every room must be easily accessible and viewable to anyone for the protection of the child.

Regardless about how one feels about resource/quiet rooms, the fact that this room is a safety hazard and likely a violation of fire codes is something to be mentioned...

 

[QueenOfTheMeadow]

Wow! That kind of gave me shivers.

 

[organicpapayamama]

I have come from a school that had something like this. It was a locked room that had stairs going down underground (something out of a horror movie right?) and although I never went in there myself I have heard the rumors of kids being taken down there and spanked and being in solitary confinement so to speak and no windows under ground obviously. I know this room exists as it was in view of everyone in the middle of the school grounds but looking down on off the balcony of another building to this room the it was like an outdoor hallway made of brick walls with the roof being a mesh gate and we could look down into the room and see the steps leading down in the dark.... I dont think its being used now but maybe back in the day when spankings as school were normal.
Did the room you saw look to have been used recently? was it dusty?

 

[heatherdeg]

:

I see it possibly being a therapy room (and when kids are doing therapy, they're prone to misbehavior--thus the posters) but I would definitely DIRECTLY ask... because it totally could be what you're worried about, too.

 

[2bluefish]

I thought fire hazard too...I agrree I don't think it is "legal". Honestly, if they are putting *any* child there as a form of discipline, I would probably withdraw my kid immediately and notify authorities.

 

[aja-belly]

oh yuck.

we just heard about a boy in our local school being locked in a room alone as punishment.

let us know what you find out!

 

[pixiekisses]

That creeps me out, I hope you get some good answers.

 

[BookGoddess]

Quote:

Originally Posted by organicpapayamama I have come from a school that had something like this. It was a locked room that had stairs going down underground (something out of a horror movie right?) and although I never went in there myself I have heard the rumors of kids being taken down there and spanked and being in solitary confinement so to speak and no windows under ground obviously. I know this room exists as it was in view of everyone in the middle of the school grounds but looking down on off the balcony of another building to this room the it was like an outdoor hallway made of brick walls with the roof being a mesh gate and we could look down into the room and see the steps leading down in the dark.... I dont think its being used now but maybe back in the day when spankings as school were normal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aja-belly oh yuck. we just heard about a boy in our local school being locked in a room alone as punishment.

 

[StephandOwen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by organicpapayamama Did the room you saw look to have been used recently? was it dusty?

It wasn't dirty or anything that would lead me to believe it's not used. Before the meeting I went up there again and, again, the door was open (it's been open every time I've been up there). Again, nobody was in there. I have a friend who is in school to become an SLP and she came to the meeting with me. I showed her the room (she's been doing some observations at the school lately so wanted her opinion). She says that she hasn't seen any kids taken in there and that when she's been observing they've taken the kids into a room inside the library (with 3 walls of windows so nothing shady there). She said, in her opinion, it could be used by therapists- but that most therapists would probably refuse to use it just because that would set them up for accusations.

Anyway, we ended up running out of time and not even really discussing transitions much today (we mostly discussed the results of his FBA and some changes to his IEP) so I didn't ask about the room. I didn't want it to be rushed as people were trying to leave. We have another meeting in May and I will ask there. The main reason I am waiting is because at this meeting there was only his teacher, the OT, the behavior specialist, the principal (for some of the meeting) and the facilitator (along with the 2 people I brought). Next meeting it will have all those people and the SLP, his teacher for next year AND the special ed teacher. I think it will be much more affective to make it known at THAT meeting in front of EVERYONE that we will not tolerate the use of such a room that way NOBODY can claim they didn't know.

I will also continue to watch the room and see if I ever see anyone using it.

 

[yukookoo]

I've worked in many environments that have "calm down rooms" Kids may be escorted in there physically against their will. THere are many laws in Ca about what these rooms can and cant contain or how long a child can be in a calm down room and for waht reason. It's considered an exclusionary time out and a form of restraint like any other restraint. The school needs signed consent from parents to do this. Really for any behavior plan signed consent is necessary.

I really don't know the laws where you are though.

I would assume that this room is being used as a "calm down room" Where a child who is extremely aggressive is being taken as part of a behavior plan and left lets say 1 min while supervised (windows on those rooms arent for the view for the child theyre so that the staff can keep an eye ont he child so they aren't unsupervised. ) Then asked to have a calm body etc. if he complies he is let out if he does not he gets another minute. This can go on legally until lunch or recess where the kid has the right to eat and play regardless.

I honestly think all behavioral schools have a calm down type room. It's a way to keep a child safe physically and to keep others safe physically while a child tantrums without giving that child reinforcement in the form of attn, physical pressure (kids who enjoy being restrained) etc.

Im not at all saying its the right thing to do, it's VERY intrusive and extreme and a complete last resort in the case of behaviors that are resistant to everything else and severely damaging to the child, to the point that this type of intervention can be justified. I don't see it being a regular everyday punishment type thing. BUT there are so so so many unethical things being done even in good schools.

I would definetly ask, acquaint yourself with the laws in your state about restraint and behavior plans and let teachers know that you are not ok with this type if intervention. In general i would ask that any procedure be approved by you before being implemented.

 

[fanniefarkle]

I would take some one by the hand (not literally) to that room and ask about it. Or I would take pictures of the room and then show them and ask about it.