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OK - I'm going veg something-or-other and that's great. But I do like soy so I've basically thrown that in everywhere. Now, reading the "how much soy do you consume" thread, I'm seeing that people have some serious issues with soy!<br><br>
So - what do you use? Does everyone just use a variety of milks? Almond/nut milks and rice milks? Seriously - how does one decide when to use what milks?<br><br>
Sorry that I have a bazillion questions but I am interested in re-converting but in a HEALTHY way this time. And I'm using MDC as my major info source <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/redface.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Embarrassment"> (hmmm,maybe I shouldn't be so dependent, but I love this forum!)
 

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This is a great place to get information and new viewpoints! I have lerned a lot on this board!<br><br>
I think if you like soy and are unconvinced that it is affecting your health in a negative way, you don't need to completely eliminate it. Personally I don't feel soy is good for me, but I'm not sure it's bad for everyone. I would eat it in moderation, though, and stick to fermented soy and maybe some tofu or soymilk. I think eating yor soy as a solid food and drinking and cooking with other dairy alternatives would be a good balance. For the most part I just don't prepare recipes that require tofu. Then, for recipes that require some kind of milk I use homemade cashew milk. I make a base with 1 cup cashews that have been soaked for an hour and 2 cups water. That works like cream - if I need milk I add more water. I also use coconut milk when specifically called for.<br><br>
This is my personal opinion - I don't care much for storebought milks, which limits what I use at home to nut milks since I don't know how to make rice milk. The reasons are that it is less expensive to make it at home and there are no added sugars or those pesky "natural" flavors.<br><br>
That said - unflavored/unsweetened rice milk and cashew milk will work for baking when you want a neutral flavor.<br>
Sweetened rice milk and almond milk are better for sweet recipes.<br>
Coconut milk, oat milk and hazelnut milk are distinctive so they are best when you want that flavor.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>SageR</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7352683"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">This is my personal opinion - I don't care much for storebought milks, which limits what I use at home to nut milks since I don't know how to make rice milk. The reasons are that it is less expensive to make it at home and there are no added sugars or those pesky "natural" flavors..</div>
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Your recipes sound good!<br><br>
I agree with what you said about the store-bought milks, especially soy. In addition to it being processed, pasteurized, and often contains lots of sugar, most of the brands contain vitamin D2 rather than D3.
 

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nak... I was just wondering about soy myself - it seems like it can have a place in a healthy diet, just not as big of one as has been marketed, yk?<br><br>
I love soy nut butter - does anyone have any idea how bad/not bad it is? Seems like (if I buy the right one) it is minimally processed. The over-processing of soy is what I've thought is the big problem, like with any food. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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I have cut out dairy from our family, but we do use soy (and rice/nut milks).<br><br>
I make soy milk at home, but can not seem to make rice and nut milks (they come out so watery).<br><br>
I feed my toddler soymilk Daily. (I mix 1/2 soy (homemade) with 1/2 rice or nut milk (store bought brands)<br><br>
Am I better off giving her commercial rice and nut milks, or is soy not such a bad thing? I am confused! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/redface.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Embarrassment">
 

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I may be no help as I don't and have never given my kids milk to drink. However if you wnat nut milk to come out thicker use more nuts to water. you can also take a shortcut by putting a nut butter into water and blending.
 

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I don't eat soy because I have a problem with too much estrogen in my body. It causes vaginal bleeding for no reason. Sometimes for five minutes, sometimes every day. Once went on for a year and I am post menopausal. Since no one can tell me beyond the shadow of a doubt that the phytoestrogens in soy do not effect the body the same way as estrogen, I have chosen not to eat it or drink soy milk. I eat food, not fake this or fake that. I eat potatoes and corn and rice and beans and all sorts of natural food. If I wanted to eat something that looked and tasted like chicken, I wouldn't be veggie, I'd eat chicken. But that is my reason and my choice. you have to decide for yourself what feels best for your body and your family. I made the switch to rice milk a long time ago because I had all kinds of stomach problems when I drank milk. Where I lived at the time they didn't sell almond or cashew or even coconut milk. It was either cow or soy or rice. I chose rice. I still use cow milk in cooking now. Sometimes I like to have potato soup which has cow milk in it. In fact I was gonna make it for dinner tonight but my son is congested today so I'll pass on anything with milk in it. Cow milk gives him really bad asthma. Normally the small amounts that I use in cooking don't bother my stomach or my son's asthma. But drinking it will give both of us fits. Hopefully one day I'll be able to figure out substitutes touse in cooking. Then maybe I'll go all the way and become vegan.<br><br>
Kathi
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Chicharronita</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7353172"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Your recipes sound good!<br><br>
I agree with what you said about the store-bought milks, especially soy. In addition to it being processed, pasteurized, and often contains lots of sugar, most of the brands contain vitamin D2 rather than D3.</div>
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Vitamin D3 isn't veg*n (usually?).
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>amyleigh33</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7354560"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Vitamin D3 isn't veg*n (usually?).</div>
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I think that's generally true. However, D2 is synthetic, and isn't as effective as D3.<br><br><a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=17023693" target="_blank">The case against ergocalciferol (vitamin D2) as a vitamin supplement:</a><br><br>
"The emergence of 25-hydroxyvitamin D as a measure of vitamin D status provides an objective, quantitative measure of the biological response to vitamin D administration. As a result, vitamin D3 has proven to be the more potent form of vitamin D in all primate species, including humans. [...]<br><br>
The case that vitamin D2 should no longer be considered equivalent to vitamin D3 is based on differences in their efficacy at raising serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D, diminished binding of vitamin D2 metabolites to vitamin D binding protein in plasma, and a nonphysiologic metabolism and shorter shelf life of vitamin D2. <b>Vitamin D2, or ergocalciferol, should not be regarded as a nutrient suitable for supplementation or fortification.</b>"<br><br>
(bolding mine)<br><br><a href="http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/11/5387" target="_blank">Vitamin D2 Is Much Less Effective than Vitamin D3 in Humans:<br></a><br><br>
Researchers Laura Armas, Bruce Hollis, and Robert Heaney showed in 2004 that vitamin D2's low affinity for the vitamin D-binding protein makes it nearly ten times less effective at raising long-term vitamin D levels.
 

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Yes, well effective or not--it's still not veg*n so that would be why they don't put it in soy milk. My point basically is, soy milk isn't <i>more</i> unhealthy because it has D2 than it would be if it had no vitamin D at all.<br><br>
Is the best way to get your D vitamins not from the sun, anyhow? 15 mins. of sun exposure to your hands and face doesn't seem that hard to obtain in almost any geographical region.
 

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Errm the margarine I buy is fortified with D3 and specifically says on the tub that it's suitable for vegans (and not much in Australia claims that so it probably is okay) so I'm thinking D3 must be able to be sourced from something other than lanolin.
 

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The Vegetarian Resource Group FAQ says D3 can be procured from plants and fungi, but IME most foods that include D3 don't use the vegan stuff (it's a safe bet that they don't unless they specifically state it's suitable for vegans).<br><br><a href="http://www.vrg.org/nutshell/faqingredients.htm#d3" target="_blank">http://www.vrg.org/nutshell/faqingredients.htm#d3</a>
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>amyleigh33</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7356705"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Yes, well effective or not</div>
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Not just ineffective, but "not be regarded as a nutrient suitable for supplementation or fortification." In addition, because it's synthetic, it is the form that has led to toxic reactions and over-doses.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Is the best way to get your D vitamins not from the sun, anyhow? 15 mins. of sun exposure to your hands and face doesn't seem that hard to obtain in almost any geographical region.</td>
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You'd think; however, researchers are discovering that there's a "vitamin D winter," which occurs during at least part of the year at any latitude greater than 34 degrees. And to get the optimum amount you have to expose most of your body for at least 15 to 30 minutes ("Naked At Noon"). Of course people living in polluted areas or where buildings block the sun get less D.<br><br>
Here's a good site for vitamin D information:<br><br><a href="http://www.vitamindcouncil.com/" target="_blank">Vitamin D Council<br></a><br><br>
One of the pages lists the different forms:<br><br><a href="http://www.vitamindcouncil.com/vitaminDPharmacology.shtml" target="_blank">Vitamin D Pharmacology<br></a>
 

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Because of the mixed research about soy, we eat it only in moderation.<br><br>
We use almond milk in cereal and coffee.<br><br>
We rarely use soy-based meat analogues.<br><br>
We eat tofu 1-2x/week<br><br>
We occasionally use tempeh or miso.<br><br>
Mostly, for protein, we use beans or seitan or quinoa or nuts/nut butters.<br><br>
As for vitamin D, we live in a very sunny climate and are often outside so don't really worry about it much.
 

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Both forms of Vit D (2 and 3) are made in nature from "previtamin" compounds and both are available in fortified foods and supplements. A few plants contain previtamin D2 that can be convereted to VD2 by exposure to sunlight or other forms of ultrviolet light in a process known as irradation. Previtamin D2 (ergosterol) is present in a few mushrooms, certain seaweeds, adn yeast. Ergocalciferol (Vit D2) is commercially produced from yeasts by irradiation. When a fortified food says (Vit D3 or cholecalciferol) that means the origion was animal (generally fish (anyone thinking mercury or pcb's?) but sometimes from sheep wool hides, or other animal parts such as cattle brain) (anyone thinking mad cow disease here!!!!!)<br><br>
Sometimes veggie companys and distributers will have D3 in their product and when called and asked (and they look it up) they are surprised that it is actually animal derived. SO if you are veggie and find a supplment call and ask!<br><br>
Get your Vit D from the sun (midmorning through the afternoon). We store vit D. "Vitamin D Winter" is during winter vit d production and serum vitmain D levels drop in adults. The time period during which this occurs is called Vit D Winter. Infants and toddlers dont' have a supply so should supplement with fortified foods.<br><br>
(info from Becoming Vegan)<br><br>
It is important to remember that vegetariand and vegans do not want to eat any animal parts and it can be debated whether Vit D2 or Vit D3 is better.<br><br>
Yes we eat soy. We don't overdue it like we don't overdue anything else. But I believe in the health benefits of soy. We alternate between rice and soy milk (actually only using it for teecino and cereal and sometimes baked goods). We eat tempeh about twice a week and tofu maybe every other week.<br><br>
Kari<br><a href="http://www.veganparenting.com" target="_blank">www.veganparenting.com</a>
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>vgnmama2keller</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7379072"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">It is important to remember that vegetariand and vegans do not want to eat any animal parts and it can be debated whether Vit D2 or Vit D3 is better.</div>
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A lot of the recent research suggests that D2 is worthless as a supplement; but if you're in doubt, you could always get your blood level of 25(OH)D measured.<br><br><a href="http://www.vitamindcouncil.com/treatment.shtml" target="_blank">The Vitamin D Council recommends</a>:<br><br>
"At this time, we advise even healthy people (those without the diseases of <a href="http://www.vitamindcouncil.com/vdds.shtml" target="_blank">vitamin D deficiency</a>) to seek a knowledgeable physician and have your 25(OH)D level measured. If your levels are below 35 ng/mL you need enough sun, artificial light, oral vitamin D3 supplements, or some combination of the three, to maintain your 25(OH)D levels between 35–65 ng/mL year around."
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Chicharronita</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7383706"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">A lot of the recent research suggests that D2 is worthless as a supplement; but if you're in doubt, you could always get your blood level of 25(OH)D measured.<br><br><a href="http://www.vitamindcouncil.com/treatment.shtml" target="_blank">The Vitamin D Council recommends</a>:<br><br>
"At this time, we advise even healthy people (those without the diseases of <a href="http://www.vitamindcouncil.com/vdds.shtml" target="_blank">vitamin D deficiency</a>) to seek a knowledgeable physician and have your 25(OH)D level measured. If your levels are below 35 ng/mL you need enough sun, artificial light, oral vitamin D3 supplements, or some combination of the three, to maintain your 25(OH)D levels between 35–65 ng/mL year around."</div>
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All I was saying, and I think it might be what this poster meant, too--is that if the D3 is NOT from a vegan source, then it is NOT vegan and vegans won't consume it. You have repeatedly made your point--studies you've read conclude that D2 is NOT a viable supplement. OK. Move on. If your point is that veg*ism is not healthy or not natural; then come clean and just say so, so we at least know what this is really all about.<br><br>
Sorry if this comes off like I'm a bit agitated, but well, I kind of am!
 

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we eat soy. i try not to overdo the soy, but we still eat it. i like tempeh and miso and i feel like those are "ok" forms of soy, as long as they are organic/no gmo.<br><br>
i have been buying hemp milk. i really want to try to make my own almond milk, though.<br><br>
oh, and i eat tofu when we go out, cause there are so many places here that have awesome tofu scrambles.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>amyleigh33</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7383944"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">You have repeatedly made your point--studies you've read conclude that D2 is NOT a viable supplement.</div>
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I didn't feel like my point was coming across at all, otherwise I wouldn't have kept posting.<br><br>
I think people have underestimated how important this vitamin is; a deficiency is implicated in all sorts of conditions: osteoporosis, heart disease, hypertension, autoimmune diseases, certain cancers, depression, chronic fatigue and chronic pain.<br><br>
It's understandable that you wouldn't want to consume animal-derived sources of D3; if you live in the "vitamin D winter" areas, you could always use sun beds.
 
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