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What do you think will happen next? This crisis has greatly affected all of humanity.
A recession.

Many people continuing to work from home for the foreseeable future/or altered work weeks and spaces.

We may or may not have round two - my money is on "no" or it comes back annually, like the flu.

Is humankind nicer? Appreciate their freedoms more? Who knows? That could go either way.
 
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Many think that this is a hoax. and there is no virus ... this is a very strange behavior
It is interesting to watch!

I believe the disease is real, killed many people especially the elderly, and likely came from batmeat in a province in China. I am a card carrying non-vaxxer btw (you know - a tinfoil wearing conspiracy theorist according to the world).

I know many people who do not believe the above. Most look very normal, and I am sure most vaccinate their kids, lol. The two are not related, btw, just having a little fun with old tropes....

There are a lot of origin stories floating:
-escaped from a lab in china by accident
-released from a lab in China on purpose
-comes from 5G towers or 5G towers make us weaker and more susceptible to it.
-released from government to kill off old people.

I have also heard that Coronovirus is not real, just a lot of hype. The beliefs on this range - from the dangers are overstated (likely true - especially in the beginning) to the dangers are completely made up/hype and no one needs to worry.
 
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I think that this opinion piece explains why the death rate in the US was so high. Very depressing. https://pjmedia.com/columns/stacey-...trust-science-and-dont-trust-dr-fauci-n551584
Hydroxychloroquine

The debate over this generic drug that has been in use for decades is one of the most puzzling and ridiculous things about the entire pandemic. The medicine was politicized and became controversial. After researching it myself and listening to practicing physicians who were using it, I expected Dr. Fauci to step up and clarify why there was a reason to believe it may work in conjunction with the mineral zinc. He never did.
I found this odd since the drug’s older cousin, chloroquine had been demonstrated to inhibit the SARS virus, which has a 90% overlap with COVID-19. The NIH did this study in 2005, where Dr. Fauci is a director.
We report, however, that chloroquine has strong antiviral effects on SARS-CoV infection of primate cells. These inhibitory effects are observed when the cells are treated with the drug either before or after exposure to the virus, suggesting both prophylactic and therapeutic advantage.
Any doctor that was recommending the treatment recommended it be given with zinc. The properties of zinc on RNA viruses, which COVID-19 is, are also well known. Again a study from the NIH in 2010 shows that with a companion ionophore, or drug that allows more zinc to enter the cell, the mineral interferes with the replication of the virus. Both chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine are zinc ionophores.


Additionally, the doctors using the treatment were using it outpatient when a patient demonstrated shortness of breath. Not in end-stage illness when a patient was severely ill on a ventilator. Dr. Fauci could have explained the scientific rationale for outpatient use to the morons in the White House Press Corps who were politicizing its use. He didn’t, and that made me very suspicious.
I became even more suspicious when the NIH announced a trial. The trial did not include zinc. The exclusion of the mineral made no rational sense, given the clinical information. It was also not clear at what point in the illness the hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin would be given.
Dr. Fauci’s lack of candor about the science behind the drug trials and resistance to clinical testimony from doctors treating patients made me lose confidence. I do not know if the reason is incompetent knowledge management in the NIH or something else. However, I find it inexcusable.
I recommend reading the entire piece. Enlightening and depressing.
 
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So, who do you think is right? Is the virus getting weaker? Are people getting stronger? Is social distancing lowering the viral load that people are hit with? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-tiger-wild-cat-Italian-scientist-claims.html


Just remember that all the authoritative claims made in the beginning of this pandemic have turned out to be wrong.
I think that there is increasing evidence that the virus is seasonal. At least in my rather isolated section of the northeast, hospitalizations from Covid have plummeted to an all time low, and most days there are no new deaths to report. Anyone can now get tested who wants to, so we still have positive tests, but these new cases, by and large, are mild and do not require hospitalization. My state has been "open" (with social distancing) since Memorial Day, so plenty of time has passed and a spike in cases has not materialized.

Of course, it's reported that many southern states are seeing cases spike, and hospitalizations, too. One factor that I haven't heard considered, is that southern states tend to be a lot hotter in the summer, and people spend more time indoors with the AC on. There are other factors, no doubt. And no one seems to be sure why California continues to do so poorly, despite having done everything "right."
 

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I think that there is increasing evidence that the virus is seasonal. At least in my rather isolated section of the northeast, hospitalizations from Covid have plummeted to an all time low, and most days there are no new deaths to report. Anyone can now get tested who wants to, so we still have positive tests, but these new cases, by and large, are mild and do not require hospitalization. My state has been "open" (with social distancing) since Memorial Day, so plenty of time has passed and a spike in cases has not materialized.

Of course, it's reported that many southern states are seeing cases spike, and hospitalizations, too. One factor that I haven't heard considered, is that southern states tend to be a lot hotter in the summer, and people spend more time indoors with the AC on. There are other factors, no doubt. And no one seems to be sure why California continues to do so poorly, despite having done everything "right."
Some of those states are getting very funky numbers when it comes to hospitalizations. Here is how it is worked:
1) open up the hospitals to all those patients who were delayed for surgeries and other procedures.

2) test everyone who comes in for any reason
3) count all the positive tests (which may be wrong, cause false positives are very high) as "cases" even if the person in question isn't sick and shows no sign of getting sick.
4) and there you go, a rising number of people in the hospitals with Covid. But few of these people are going to stay in the hospital, so the bump up won't be very solid.
 

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Discussion Starter #330
So, who do you think is right? Is the virus getting weaker? Are people getting stronger? Is social distancing lowering the viral load that people are hit with? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-tiger-wild-cat-Italian-scientist-claims.html


Just remember that all the authoritative claims made in the beginning of this pandemic have turned out to be wrong.
''They'' did claim 100-200k WOULD die from this in the USA - so far, if the numbers are accurate, it's over 100k...and going higher...

apt buildings and recirculated air have much to do with spread as well as mass transportation
 

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Discussion Starter #331
Some of those states are getting very funky numbers when it comes to hospitalizations. Here is how it is worked:
1) open up the hospitals to all those patients who were delayed for surgeries and other procedures.

2) test everyone who comes in for any reason
3) count all the positive tests (which may be wrong, cause false positives are very high) as "cases" even if the person in question isn't sick and shows no sign of getting sick.
4) and there you go, a rising number of people in the hospitals with Covid. But few of these people are going to stay in the hospital, so the bump up won't be very solid.
Yes, theyr'e opening up -- but how many are going in for routine stuff? Not many i know of in Cali...everyone is waiting, including me

Flu tests that are positive without symtoms are reported, too, even if the person didn't 'feel' like the flu

Ventilators are causing more problems in Covid patients, causing them to remain there, bumping up numbers

Frankly, this virus is so new, they dont' know what the hell they're doing, and spewing whatever the public will swallow,imo

And yes, my sis broke her pelvis - BAM - covid test upon entry to hospital-- they do it with flu, too in order to isolate if possible...kaiser had a whole different building for covid patients
 

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''They'' did claim 100-200k WOULD die from this in the USA - so far, if the numbers are accurate, it's over 100k...and going higher...

apt buildings and recirculated air have much to do with spread as well as mass transportation

Well, I certainly agree with you on the old apartment buildings and recirculated air piece. And the shutdown made that situation worse by keeping people confined and unavailable to reduce their viral load by getting out and breathing uncontaminated air.



I'm not sure about those predictions. Consider that the degree of lockdown varied a lot across various states and began at different dates. Areas with almost no lockdown should have had more deaths. Did they?
 
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Yes, theyr'e opening up -- but how many are going in for routine stuff? Not many i know of in Cali...everyone is waiting, including me

Flu tests that are positive without symtoms are reported, too, even if the person didn't 'feel' like the flu

Ventilators are causing more problems in Covid patients, causing them to remain there, bumping up numbers

Frankly, this virus is so new, they dont' know what the hell they're doing, and spewing whatever the public will swallow,imo

And yes, my sis broke her pelvis - BAM - covid test upon entry to hospital-- they do it with flu, too in order to isolate if possible...kaiser had a whole different building for covid patients

Vermont is opening up and doing catch-up surgery. I'm getting my cataracts removed. Very curious to find out if I'll test "positive" or not. I've certainly made minimal effort to avoid exposure and I do live in an apartment. But it is quite possible that I've already had it and "recovered".
 
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Discussion Starter #334
Well, I certainly agree with you on the old apartment buildings and recirculated air piece. And the shutdown made that situation worse by keeping people confined and unavailable to reduce their viral load by getting out and breathing uncontaminated air.



I'm not sure about those predictions. Consider that the degree of lockdown varied a lot across various states and began at different dates. Areas with almost no lockdown should have had more deaths. Did they?

I'd be interested to know where these areas were located, and how residents lived
 

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I'm going to be lazy and just paste in another one of Ethical Skeptic's charts. "Much of the country resumed the downward trend today, even a couple of the states who are salting cases. That is pretty bad, when you are salting cases and you are still going down. But alas, we have one more week of desperation trying to spin this as need for lockdown."
 
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And here is the list of salting techniques.

 
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I'd be interested to know where these areas were located, and how residents lived
This ProPublica page has the stay-at-home status of each state (including whether there was a stay-at-home order and how long it has been in place or how long it has been lifted). It's geared toward stats on new cases, so it doesn't list total number of cases or deaths, but I looked up the specific info for Iowa and Nebraska, neither of which had any stay-at-home order, and both of which are obviously largely rural. Iowa has had 26,338 cases (positive tests) and 687 deaths; Nebraska has had 17,957 cases and 249 deaths.

Like all of the coronavirus statistics, this information is difficult to interpret because, for example, ProPublica lists Utah as having had no stay-at-home order. I live in Utah, and while that is technically true, we did have a stay-at-home "directive", and people did stay home. There is also a phased, color-coded plan for "reopening", which is now underway. Utah has had 17,906 cases and 158 deaths.

Iowa: http://https://coronavirus.iowa.gov
Nebraska: https://nebraska.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/4213f719a45647bc873ffb58783ffef3
Utah: https://coronavirus.utah.gov/case-counts

ProPublica: https://projects.propublica.org/reopening-america/
To give people context on state reopenings, and what happens afterward, we are tracking metrics derived from a set of guidelines published by the White House for states to achieve before loosening restrictions. Even if these criteria are met, without a vaccine, reopening may cause an increase in cases. What’s more, some states may meet all of the criteria and still have a high infection rate.
 

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Discussion Starter #340
This ProPublica page has the stay-at-home status of each state (including whether there was a stay-at-home order and how long it has been in place or how long it has been lifted). It's geared toward stats on new cases, so it doesn't list total number of cases or deaths, but I looked up the specific info for Iowa and Nebraska, neither of which had any stay-at-home order, and both of which are obviously largely rural. Iowa has had 26,338 cases (positive tests) and 687 deaths; Nebraska has had 17,957 cases and 249 deaths.
...
Like all of the coronavirus statistics, this information is difficult to interpret because, for example, ProPublica lists Utah as having had no stay-at-home order. I live in Utah, and while that is technically true, we did have a stay-at-home "directive", and people did stay home. There is also a phased, color-coded plan for "reopening", which is now underway. Utah has had 17,906 cases and 158 deaths.



Iowa: http://https://coronavirus.iowa.gov
Nebraska: https://nebraska.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/4213f719a45647bc873ffb58783ffef3
Utah: https://coronavirus.utah.gov/case-counts

ProPublica: https://projects.propublica.org/reopening-america/

how did those people in rural areas live, who contracted this and died...were they elderly, live in community homes, or with existing conditions, or were they healthy and young - that also has to be taken into consideration. The Nebraska link gave no indication on ages, health, or living conditions
 
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