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Discussion Starter #361
I am sure employees are allowed to use restrooms in public places because CAL-OSHA would require it, but the public is not allowed to use any restrooms in places I have ventured out to in the last month. So awful!
IT CERTAINLY IS!!!!!

The homeless population is the society suffering due to lack of bathrooms, handwashing, showers, etc, etc...i had to buy a 3$ drink JUST TO PEE!!!!! RIDICULOUS!!!!!

I''m living in my RV til my apt comes through - no bathroom open ANYWHERE AT ALL!!!
SHAMEFUL , CALIFORNIA!!!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #362

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I am especially concerned about how this will affect schools reopening. The document you posted from SickKids is great, and I love that it stresses the kinds of things that should not be done if they require disrupting the daily school routine (because the daily school routine is important!). But I don't think that reasonable considerations like that are driving either the media narrative or people's perceptions. My own school district keeps sending out surveys, which tells me that they are not going to make decisions based on best practices (for the whole child, not just COVID), evidence, or facts; rather, they are trying to gauge what parents want and will tolerate. .
I agree. I am glad they sought expert opinion, but it will likely not be the only or driving force.

I think the Ministry of Education and school boards will weigh:

-What the scientific/medical evidence is (aka SickKids)
-the desire to get kids back into class for educational, mental health and economic reasons (the last one is a driver)
-what parents will tolerate
-what staff will tolerate. The teachers unions in this province are very strong.
 

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I agree. I am glad they sought expert opinion, but it will likely not be the only or driving force.

I think the Ministry of Education and school boards will weigh:

-What the scientific/medical evidence is (aka SickKids)
-the desire to get kids back into class for educational, mental health and economic reasons (the last one is a driver)
-what parents will tolerate
-what staff will tolerate. The teachers unions in this province are very strong.

Yes, many teachers seem to be extremely fearful.
 
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I have a question that kind of goes back to the thread title.

My husband is rather obsessed with the "number of new cases" and checks it every day. As the "number of new cases" rises, he is more and more freaked out, even though hospitalization and mortality stay the same. My attitude is that I don't know what "new cases" means. If people are not getting sick, what difference does it make if this virus is present in their bodies? Why is disaster imminent if "new cases" keep going up while hospitalizations and mortality remain constant?

I just wonder what other people think about this. Does the explosion of "new cases" make you more fearful? Do you think the testing is at all meaningful? I find that my thoughts about "the pandemic" do not fit with any (either?) of the dominant narratives, and it troubles me that people like my husband can be swayed by these (possibly bogus) statistics, in spite of the fact that he knows NO ONE who has been sick with COVID. One person at his work tested positive but was never sick and never had one symptom. I'm not saying that I don't believe people have been sick and died with this illness, but the level of fear I see around me is what I would expect if people were dropping dead in the street, and that is not happening.

Sorry if I am repeating myself here. This is hands down the worst thing I have ever gone through in my life, just from a trying to maintain sanity perspective.
 

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I have a question that kind of goes back to the thread title.

My husband is rather obsessed with the "number of new cases" and checks it every day. As the "number of new cases" rises, he is more and more freaked out, even though hospitalization and mortality stay the same. My attitude is that I don't know what "new cases" means. If people are not getting sick, what difference does it make if this virus is present in their bodies? Why is disaster imminent if "new cases" keep going up while hospitalizations and mortality remain constant?

I just wonder what other people think about this. Does the explosion of "new cases" make you more fearful? Do you think the testing is at all meaningful? I find that my thoughts about "the pandemic" do not fit with any (either?) of the dominant narratives, and it troubles me that people like my husband can be swayed by these (possibly bogus) statistics, in spite of the fact that he knows NO ONE who has been sick with COVID. One person at his work tested positive but was never sick and never had one symptom. I'm not saying that I don't believe people have been sick and died with this illness, but the level of fear I see around me is what I would expect if people were dropping dead in the street, and that is not happening.

Sorry if I am repeating myself here. This is hands down the worst thing I have ever gone through in my life, just from a trying to maintain sanity perspective.

You are seeing reality, your husband is buying media scaremongering. This has been going on for months.



If you are on Twitter, I recommend @ethicalskeptic as a source of accurate info on Covid. I've posted one or two of his graphs here.
 

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I have a question that kind of goes back to the thread title.

My husband is rather obsessed with the "number of new cases" and checks it every day. As the "number of new cases" rises, he is more and more freaked out, even though hospitalization and mortality stay the same. My attitude is that I don't know what "new cases" means. If people are not getting sick, what difference does it make if this virus is present in their bodies? Why is disaster imminent if "new cases" keep going up while hospitalizations and mortality remain constant?

I just wonder what other people think about this. Does the explosion of "new cases" make you more fearful? Do you think the testing is at all meaningful? I find that my thoughts about "the pandemic" do not fit with any (either?) of the dominant narratives, and it troubles me that people like my husband can be swayed by these (possibly bogus) statistics, in spite of the fact that he knows NO ONE who has been sick with COVID. One person at his work tested positive but was never sick and never had one symptom. I'm not saying that I don't believe people have been sick and died with this illness, but the level of fear I see around me is what I would expect if people were dropping dead in the street, and that is not happening.

Sorry if I am repeating myself here. This is hands down the worst thing I have ever gone through in my life, just from a trying to maintain sanity perspective.
I am sorry you are struggling. It has been a hell of a year.

To answer your question, "new cases" do not bother me at all. Let's say the actual prevalence of a disease is 50%. If they test 10% of the population, the number of cases is going to be 5% of the population. If they test 100% of the population, the new case rate will be 50%. I think the only way "new cases" is a valid concern is if the testing parameter have genuinely remained unchanged and they are seeing a higher number of cases and this is a pattern, not a blip.

Even then...in many ways, if people get sick, as long as they do not get too sick...who cares? There are a decent number of people who are asymptomatic. I suppose it is possible there could be long term health issues from the virus, and that is a concern...but I am not going to worry about that. It is too speculative in my opinion, and moreover, most people do not have long term issues from most acute viruses.
 

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I have a question that kind of goes back to the thread title.

My husband is rather obsessed with the "number of new cases" and checks it every day. As the "number of new cases" rises, he is more and more freaked out, even though hospitalization and mortality stay the same. My attitude is that I don't know what "new cases" means. If people are not getting sick, what difference does it make if this virus is present in their bodies? Why is disaster imminent if "new cases" keep going up while hospitalizations and mortality remain constant?

I just wonder what other people think about this. Does the explosion of "new cases" make you more fearful? Do you think the testing is at all meaningful? I find that my thoughts about "the pandemic" do not fit with any (either?) of the dominant narratives, and it troubles me that people like my husband can be swayed by these (possibly bogus) statistics, in spite of the fact that he knows NO ONE who has been sick with COVID. One person at his work tested positive but was never sick and never had one symptom. I'm not saying that I don't believe people have been sick and died with this illness, but the level of fear I see around me is what I would expect if people were dropping dead in the street, and that is not happening.

Sorry if I am repeating myself here. This is hands down the worst thing I have ever gone through in my life, just from a trying to maintain sanity perspective.
Here's a quote from one of my favorite statisticians, Nate Silver, of fivethirtyeight.com. It's from last month, but I don't think the narrative has changed much. In some parts of the country not all of the increase in Covid cases can be pinned to more testing; but in states where hospitalizations and deaths are declining, and anyone can now be tested, a total case increase is pretty insignificant.
https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1258404881347510272
Not providing context on the increase in testing is such a basic error, and has been so widespread, that it’s revealing about the media’s goals. It’s more interested in telling plausibly-true stories (“narratives”) that sound smart to its audience than in accuracy/truth per se.
I don't think the media is doing this intentionally. I just think that there is a reactionary tendency in our politics these days that has spilled over into all aspects of life - to the point where it's so ingrained that people are not even aware that they are being reactionary. And I use that word in the general sense: relating to, marked by, or favoring reaction. There's probably a better word... polarized seems too cliche... contrarian too antiquated...
Anyhow, people seem to be reacting to what other people think might (or might not) be going on, and not bothering to ask, what is really going on here?
 

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Here's a quote from one of my favorite statisticians, Nate Silver, of fivethirtyeight.com. It's from last month, but I don't think the narrative has changed much. In some parts of the country not all of the increase in Covid cases can be pinned to more testing; but in states where hospitalizations and deaths are declining, and anyone can now be tested, a total case increase is pretty insignificant.
https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1258404881347510272


I don't think the media is doing this intentionally. I just think that there is a reactionary tendency in our politics these days that has spilled over into all aspects of life - to the point where it's so ingrained that people are not even aware that they are being reactionary. And I use that word in the general sense: relating to, marked by, or favoring reaction. There's probably a better word... polarized seems too cliche... contrarian too antiquated...
Anyhow, people seem to be reacting to what other people think might (or might not) be going on, and not bothering to ask, what is really going on here?

I call this type of response: "learned helplessness".


It definitely serves someone's purposes.
 
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Not gonna lie...heard about rates in Texas and Florida this morning and got a little worried. Can anyone offer some context?

Still think the main thing to do is stay out of crowded indoor places.
 

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Not gonna lie...heard about rates in Texas and Florida this morning and got a little worried. Can anyone offer some context?
My question has to do with the protesters. Where are the spikes? Also what would happen if we tested EVERYONE for the Flu? Or even another virus? Would the numbers be high?

Sorry if that makes things more confusing. :smile:
 

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Not gonna lie...heard about rates in Texas and Florida this morning and got a little worried. Can anyone offer some context?

Still think the main thing to do is stay out of crowded indoor places.

Staying out of crowded indoor spaces is good. Avoiding being next to the same person for 10 minutes plus will also help.



but seriously, you are in more danger from the scaremongering around this illness than you are from the actual illness. I linked an article by Handley in the Covid vaccine thread that might make you feel better.
 

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My question has to do with the protesters. Where are the spikes? Also what would happen if we tested EVERYONE for the Flu? Or even another virus? Would the numbers be high?

Sorry if that makes things more confusing. :smile:
From what I understand it takes a while to see the effects of things like mass gatherings. Texas re-opened in very late April, and scary looking spikes did not occur till mid June. Hence we could see some spikes from protests in a few weeks.

And yeah...are they seeing more because they are testing more? That might account for some of it, but I also read hospitalisation rates were up in Texas for COVID, which I see as a firmer indicator.
 

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@Deborah - thanks that article is helpful. I am going to dive into some of the links in it.

I think I need to focus on big picture and yes, my local area, but maybe not worry that a spike in Arizona (which is nothing like Ontario) means dire warnings for the planet.

My own experience with COVID is I am usually fine, but then see something and my anxiety spikes...and it is always a process where I have to sit with the anxiety, dig into what is going on and then draw the conclusions I can for the moment.
 

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@Deborah - thanks that article is helpful. I am going to dive into some of the links in it.

I think I need to focus on big picture and yes, my local area, but maybe not worry that a spike in Arizona (which is nothing like Ontario) means dire warnings for the planet.

My own experience with COVID is I am usually fine, but then see something and my anxiety spikes...and it is always a process where I have to sit with the anxiety, dig into what is going on and then draw the conclusions I can for the moment.
 

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@Deborah - thanks that article is helpful. I am going to dive into some of the links in it.

I think I need to focus on big picture and yes, my local area, but maybe not worry that a spike in Arizona (which is nothing like Ontario) means dire warnings for the planet.

My own experience with COVID is I am usually fine, but then see something and my anxiety spikes...and it is always a process where I have to sit with the anxiety, dig into what is going on and then draw the conclusions I can for the moment.

It is important for people to understand that a well-run hospital usually has an almost full ICU. This is why people are sometimes airlifted to another hospital when there is a major auto accident or other disaster. US hospitals are designed to operate at almost full capacity.
 
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