Mothering Forum banner

1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
213 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK, I'm a little emarrassed to admit how sad I am about this, but I think I need some hugs:<br><br>
I got ds's written evaluation back recently, and noticed that the evaluator had gotten his birthday wrong. I let her know, and she sent the corrected results.<br><br>
Well, it was a bit of a shock. He had taken an IQ test as part of the evaluation, and originally it had come back as being a bit above average. In the corrected version, which I received yesterday, it dropped twenty points, down to an 84. That's "low average." In some areas he tested just at the high end of "borderline."<br><br>
I'm finding this very hard to take. Finding out the ASD was hard, but also in so many ways a relief. ASD doesn't preclude success, and certainly doesn't preclude intelligence -- in fact, it may even imply it. Both dh and I come from families that strongly value intelligence. Especially in dh's family, there is a strain of hyper-intelligence that runs throughout. They all seem to know their IQs, and in every case they are off the charts. DH himself was a child-genius, doing college-level math at a very young age, etc.. Everyone has always joked to "watch out" for our kids, we get comments like, "hey, is he doing long division yet?" and that sort of thing. And when ds started showing signs of quirkiness, it just added to the expectation. Heck, even when we got the ASD diagnosis, everyone just started making the Einstein and Bill Gates jokes.<br><br>
Well, they are still making the jokes, b/c we didn't tell anyone the IQ part. And I'm not planning to, of course, but that just makes it all the harder to take.<br><br>
I'm pinging back and forth right now between, "IQ tests are stupid and meaningless anyway, they can't predict anything" and "so what if he's low-average anyway? I love him exactly the way he is, and wouldn't change a single thing." Which are both 100% true.<br><br>
...So why is my heart still aching? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/bawling.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bawl">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,862 Posts
IQ tests are great for people who have proper command of the english language, a solid knowledge of american and world history and cultural events and no learning disabilities at all, specifically the very lucky chosen few who have NO issues at all and absolutley perfectly functioning brains, in short, that's not may people. I took an IQ test at 21 and had difficulty with it, so I can only imagine what it would be like as a child.<br>
There are some standardized tests that can be done to measure intelligence level in people who don't speak, can't remember what they're called. Overall though, I am not a huge fan of standardized testing. They are biased and inaccurate at best.<br>
Please don't feel bad over this mama, there is a ton of criticism about IQ testing and most dr's agree that it isn't very reliable at determining cognitive function.<br><br>
Namaste,<br><br>
Michelle
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,001 Posts
I am sort of of the opinion that IQ testing is not reliable for children with autism and any scores should be taken with a grain of salt. I have not allowed IQ testing on DD at all because I don't think it would be accurate. Except for the nonverbal test, I can't see how she could possibly even participate when it's not likely that she'd understand the language behind the request. It wouldn't mean that she didn't know how to do what they were asking of her, but just that she didn't understand what was being asked -- and having trouble processing language is not the same thing as having low cognitive ability in general.<br><br>
Or in some cases if there is a problem with joint attention, you cannot know that the child is even paying attention to the person asking the questions; they might be watching something on the other side of the room or focused on something else entirely, and that also wouldn't mean that they lacked specific cognitive skills but merely that they weren't able to pay attention to the question.<br><br>
Here's an interesting journal abstract along those lines: <a href="http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=43397" target="_blank">http://journals.cambridge.org/action...line&aid=43397</a>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,046 Posts
Your heart is aching because some idiot labeled your child.<br><br>
For what it's worth, I am an adult "autistic." When I was a child, I scored lower than your son did on my IQ tests.<br><br>
When I was 22 (I'm 35 now), I took another IQ test. In fact, they gave me four because they were "clearly wrong." I tested genius on all of them. Every one of them.<br><br>
Yet. I can only do mathematics at a 4th grade level. I literally GUESSED at almost all of the math except the very simplest.<br><br>
IQ tests for autistic people is just stupid.<br><br>
It's like taking a horse jumping contest, and putting a dog through it. Why did my dog score so low on the horse jumping contest? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/headscratch.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="headscratch"><br><br>
Because dogs aren't made to jump those silly fences, they're made to be loving companions to their owners.<br><br>
Hold a lap cuddling contest, and see how well the horse does!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
213 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Oh my gosh, you guys, thank you *so* much! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/luxlove.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="throb"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/luxlove.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="throb"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/luxlove.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="throb"> This is EXACTLY what I needed to hear. You're all like a shot of good medicine for me. It's like I already knew it, but I really needed to hear it anyway, kwim?<br><br>
Thank you!<br><br>
p.s. the horse/dog analogy was weirdly apt... my ds is the best lap-cuddler on the planet. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/love.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="love">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,378 Posts
My 10yo (AS) I would never leave at home alone but I could leave either 2 of my girls (7 and 9) home alone. My girls are more mature! (I woul never leave them home alone that was just an example.)<br><br>
My youngest is 3 yrs 8 mos. He scored 33 on a test for his ST. I didn't ask 33 out of what? 50? 100? (The eval is for my insurance company so they'll keep paying.) Blessedly she (our ST) is wise enough not to test him verbally since he's non-verbal!<br><br>
Your child is still maturing! Many parents have children people thought wouldn't talk/walk/make eye comtact/etc. and they did. And some did not and that's okay too! Go ahead and cry and then forget about it! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug"><br><br>
Sincerely,<br>
Debra, homeschooling mom of 4 ages 10 (AS), 9, 7, and 44 mos (HFA)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,419 Posts
First, I'm in agreement with the many posters who said that IQ tests are often really inaccurate for people with ASDs.<br><br>
Also, I'd keep in mind any IQ test is only that test, on that day, with that tester. With a different test, on a different day when he was better rested or more cooperative or with a tester who tried harder to understand him, you may find a very different result.<br><br>
And, really the composite score is never the most important part of the results. A good tester should be able to tell you what they noticed about the scores. Were there are particular areas where it looks like he needs more help? Sometimes the range of scores can be the most revealing thing. Most of us in life make it not on an average of our abilities, but with one or two strongest areas. Generally, I'd look for your son's strengths and keep building on those.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,195 Posts
IQ by definition is mental age divided by physical age multiplied by a 100. <b>It does not change with time</b>. Again, by definition. If someone scores significantly different at different times, it is not because their IQ 'changed' (it can't), it's because it was not measured adequately (probably, both times).<br><br>
IQ testing is rather pointless for children - too big a mistake. Any children.<br><br>
IQ testing is completely stupid for SN children - for all of the above reasons plus.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
The subtest scores are more useful than the full scale IQ with a lot of our kids. My younger son had testing done in Dec and OMG. Did worse than your guy by a long shot.<br><br>
The bit that made me giggle is that he is teacher identified as gifted (and not just by one teacher) so this borderline IQ score was interesting.<br><br>
The subtest scores gave us some insight into his strengths and weaknesses. The overall FS IQ although meaningless is also useful to advocate with. Even though we know that score is wrong, he definitely is working at that level in some areas at this point in time. But his potential is a lot higher.<br><br>
Take what works for him from the score and ignore the rest.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
468 Posts
One thing I remember about my son's IQ test when he was 5 is that the evaluator shared a couple of answers he got wrong.<br><br>
She says "It's filled with air and you tie a ribbon to it so it won't float away"<br><br>
His answer "and Oxygen tank"<br><br>
There was another one describing a fire fighter and he answered fire engine rather than fire fighter.<br><br>
I tend to think it's unlikely that these responses mean that he's necessarily less intelligent than a child who answered "balloon" and "fireman". It might indicate attentional issues, auditory processing issues, or that he thinks oxygen tanks are really cool, thinks oxygen tank, realizes she means balloon, and decides it would be more fun to say "oxygen tank" <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> All of these are entirely plausible based upon my knowledge of my son.<br><br>
Another section of the test was totally affected by fine motor skills and another by the fact that if given blocks, he will not long be interested in copying another person's constructions but will try something different because he likes it better.<br><br>
I know it can be hard, though.<br><br>
Sherri
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
17,826 Posts
<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug"> I went through this with ds1 and his first evaluation. I was sick to my stomach by the IQ test. I knew it wasn't right, but it still nagged at me. I was afraid that he would be judged and treated by his IQ at school. Thankfully, as soon as they got to know him, they too realized that his IQ scores didn't reflect who he was or what he was capable. It was simply a test that he didn't do well on. And you know how IQ's aren't supposed to change, he was reevaluated this year, and his IQ went up 10-15 points, I think. He was just better at taking tests. He was actually above above average in a lot of things, and because of his processing issues they said with more time he would have done even better. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/shrug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shrug"> So long story short, they don't mean squat!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,046 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>JohannasGarden</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7331413"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">One thing I remember about my son's IQ test when he was 5 is that the evaluator shared a couple of answers he got wrong.<br><br>
She says "It's filled with air and you tie a ribbon to it so it won't float away"<br><br>
His answer "and Oxygen tank"</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Actually, that answer is technically right. You CAN put the ribbon on the balloon while it's on the helium tank, so the balloon won't blow away.<br><br>
And wouldn't it be reasonable for a child to mistake the helium tank for an oxygen tank?<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">There was another one describing a fire fighter and he answered fire engine rather than fire fighter.</td>
</tr></table></div>
I bet that he got that one right, too. I bet it asked something like, "who puts water on the fire and puts the fire out?"<br><br>
Well... sure, the firefighter directs the hose, but the fire engine is the one that actually pumps the water.<br><br>
Now, 20 years from now, he'll have likely grown to learn to answer WHAT IS EXPECTED, instead of WHAT IS CORRECT, and he'll probably score much higher in IQ.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I tend to think it's unlikely that these responses mean that he's necessarily less intelligent than a child who answered "balloon" and "fireman". It might indicate attentional issues, auditory processing issues, or that he thinks oxygen tanks are really cool, thinks oxygen tank, realizes she means balloon, and decides it would be more fun to say "oxygen tank" <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> All of these are entirely plausible based upon my knowledge of my son.</td>
</tr></table></div>
Being autistic is a unique perspective. For example, I have an incredibly high aptitude in the mechanical area. I scored off the women's charts in the ASVAB, and as high as possible on the men's chart.<br><br>
When I sit down and take something apart, I can put it back together and it will work. But ask me HOW I made it work, and I'll just sit and drool and look at you like a complete idiot.<br><br>
First, because... well, isn't it obvious? I put it back together right, that's why- is this a trick quesition? Second, because I don't usually know how to explain the change I made in a way that others will understand.<br><br>
For me, my autism was a gift. It made me fight, and I do mean fight hard, to learn how to speak to people, how to use words that others understand to describe concepts that I found difficult to relate into words for other people.<br><br>
If you're interested in what the gift was that came out of my autism, please see the link in my sig.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Another section of the test was totally affected by fine motor skills and another by the fact that if given blocks, he will not long be interested in copying another person's constructions but will try something different because he likes it better.<br><br>
I know it can be hard, though.<br><br>
Sherri</td>
</tr></table></div>
I suck at twitch gaming. My reactions are slow. But if you give me, again, something mechanical, plenty of time to complete it, and all the tools I need.... just ignore me for a few hours, and see what kind of "fine motor skills" I have....<br><br>
When I'm interested in what I'm doing. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
I always had a hard time following instructions. I knew what to do, but first off, I had better things to do, and secondly... you know what... nobody ever gave me a genuinely good reason for doing this cr**<br><br><i>WHY</i> do I have to make a sky scraper with my blocks? I don't want to. And it's not like someone's going to really be living in it, anyway.<br><br>
"Well, we just want to know that you can do it."<br><br>
"Why?"<br><br>
"Because it's important to know your abilities."<br><br>
"Why?"<br><br>
"So you can grow up and do something with your life." (Or whatever reason of the week)<br><br>
"I can do whatever I want to with my life."<br><br>
"Well, only if you're capable of it, though."<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/headscratch.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="headscratch">: "What am I not capable of?"<br><br>
"Well, that's what we're trying to find out."<br><br>
"Why? Why is it important right now?"<br><br>
And on the conversation goes. Now Teacher is irritated, and I am irritated, and everyone's in a lousy mood. And I STILL don't really understand WHY we have to do this lame, boring, cr**!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,186 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>feebeeglee</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7326689"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">IQ tests tend to show how good people are at taking IQ tests.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">:<br><br>
If it makes you feel better, we got similar results for my ds at his evaluation. The psychologist who told us the results was very cautionary and said that the results were probably not accurate because he was very difficult to test due to ASD.<br><br>
It's a number. Nothing more. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/hug2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Hug2"> It has no power.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
322 Posts
I also wonder how old he is? My oldest had an IQ around 88-90 at age 4 but that was because of her language challenges. Also, IQ's at a young age are not nearly accurate. Most don't consider them accurate until at least age 8.<br><br>
Her most recent full scale at 12 is 115 and her non-verbal IQ is in the 130's.<br><br>
I also agree with the poster about how the subtest scores with our ASD kids are more important than the actual full scale number. It tells us where their strengths and challenges are, their learning profile and how to teach them.<br><br>
My son's IQ I think is terribly inaccurate because of the differences in his subtest scores. In some areas he scores a 68 and in others a 139. How do you quantify an average out of that? Supposidly his full scale is 115 but at 11 I can't leave him alone and he is in a SDC class with a 1:1 aide.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,046 Posts
By the way, the fire engine and the balloon answers... I was so struck by that post because I remember those questions from when i was a kid, I remember giving the same answers, and I remember being LIVID that they actually marked those answers as wrong.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,679 Posts
Here is an interesting article that you might find helpful. It's quite scholarly in nature, but will probably help you ease your mind about what these scores CAN and CAN NOT measure or predict.<br><br><a href="http://www.srmhp.org/0202/iq.html" target="_blank">http://www.srmhp.org/0202/iq.html</a>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
213 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
You guys are so amazing! I can't even tell you, this is truly just a world of help to me. Actually, to my whole family... I actually sat my husband down and had him read this too, and we both just appreciate so much this wonderful perspective you've given us. It's made all the difference.<br><br>
Thank you so much everyone! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/love.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="love">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,419 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Amris</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7332750"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">By the way, the fire engine and the balloon answers... I was so struck by that post because I remember those questions from when i was a kid, I remember giving the same answers, and I remember being LIVID that they actually marked those answers as wrong.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
That's weird since normally a kid has no idea what would be marked right or wrong on an IQ test.
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top