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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
<a href="http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1123-06.htm" target="_blank">http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1123-06.htm</a><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">"No one, especially someone like me, who has lived in a war zone, would deny that a soldier or marine could legitimately err on the side of caution under those circumstances," he writes, addressing the marines. "War is about killing your enemy before he kills you. I can't know what was in the mind of that marine. He is the only one who does."<br><br>
But Sites added: "As an experienced war correspondent, who was aware of possible mitigating circumstances, it appeared to me very plainly that something was not right. I was not watching from a hundred feet away. I was in the same room. Aside from breathing, I did not observe any movement."</td>
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One thing I would like to know is why the Marine who killed the wounded Iraqi on the floor was returned to active combat two days after being wounded- shot in the face, I believe?
 

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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/mecry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="crying">
 

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I feel so bad for all involved.<br>
It seems like the lack of leadership and refusal to have a strategy are making the troops go nuts. Plus, we've never had guys in active duty for this long before, and they don't know when they'll come home, which adds to the stress incredibly. At least in vietnam they had count-down calendars, and a date to look forward too.<br><br>
Not that this justifies shooting the Iraqi, but something else to <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/mecry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="crying"> over.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Exactly, Lia. It's a crappy situation all around. The only winners in this war are those profiting off of it. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">:<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/mecry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="crying">
 

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I saw this on the news and was very disturbed.
 

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I think one should give this marine a little slack. People are making harsh judgements of this soldier on this and they don't know the whole story.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">The shooting happened a day after the Marine, who has not been identified, was wounded in the face and after another man in his unit was killed by the booby-trapped body of an insurgent.</td>
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<a href="http://www.freep.com/news/nw/iraq17e_20041117.htm" target="_blank">Detroit free Press</a>
 

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Laura---<br><br>
Did you actually read the responses before your own or just assume that people were attacking the Marine in question. Your *exact* comment was actually brought up by aussiemum in the 3rd post.<br><br>
Additional comments included:<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I feel so bad for all involved.</td>
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">It's a crappy situation all around. The only winners in this war are those profiting off of it.</td>
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I think *everyone* has been attempting to see the method behind the madness, please give credit where credit is due.
 

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I have been away how long???? Quite a little while. It is so nice to see nothing has changed. Sad to see there are some still suffering from cranial rectal inversion. But not one bit surprised. Took just this one thread to remember why I left.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Yeah, I wonder if sleeping queen read the article in the OP at all. And when did anyone NOT give the soldier any slack??<br><br>
Please work on your reading comprehension, Laura. Thanks!
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">But Sites added: "As an experienced war correspondent, who was aware of possible mitigating circumstances, it appeared to me very plainly that something was not right. I was not watching from a hundred feet away. I was in the same room. Aside from breathing, I did not observe any movement."</td>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/headscratch.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="headscratch"> Doesn't that paragraph alone cast doubt on the decision of the marine to shoot?
 

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Hey, I don't know a hell of alot about the circumstances that the shooting occured in ... I just know that soldiers that come home usually suffer from PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) and no one that wasn't at the scene at the time could possibly understand or comprehend it ... let alone judge it.<br><br>
I've heard rumours that there is a procedure known as "verifying the kill" which can also be used in moments of mercy. Was this Iraqi that got shot already wounded before the soldier fired? How do we REALLY know if we were not there - who's word do you take? I hope he was just putting some human out of his pain and suffering, maybe wounds that would enevitably result in death.<br><br>
But it doesn't matter what I think ... I'm a dumb Aussie that does not get much detail about foreign affairs - just an overall gist of things is all. I HAVE READ EVERY POST ABOVE ... and I'm at a loss for words so I'm gonna pull my head in right about now!
 

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welcome to the snakepit called W&P, starlite- It's always nice to have another Australian on the boards, & hope you enjoy the many & varied discussions here at MDC, it's a bit like Alice's Restaurant, if ykwim......<br><br>
Laura, from my way of looking at it, just because something's not right with the Marine who shot the Iraqi, that doesn't mean that I want to see him put in prison or anything like that..... In his heart, he too will know that he shot & killed an unarmed, wounded man, & ultimately he will live with that knowledge for the rest of his life. I think this one shooting is the tip of the iceberg, so to speak, there's prolly a number of both men & women out there who will be in a similar situation to the bloke who got 'caught' on camera. This is what war is about, it's brutal, nasty, ugly..... & we should be aware of the job that we've asked the military to do.......<br><br>
Gotta run, kids, dog..... chaos.... & I thought I could squeeze in 15 minutes of quiet......... HA! Not likely this am it seems.......
 

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To reiterate, the sad thing about war, but especially this (unneccessary) war, is that those men and women are being put in situations like this. You kill someone, you have to live with it forever. It can ruin your life. I feel sorry as hell for that marine.
 

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The full text of what Kevin Sites wrote is available on<br><a href="http://www.kevinsites.net/" target="_blank">his blog</a>.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">To reiterate, the sad thing about war, but especially this (unneccessary) war, is that those men and women are being put in situations like this. You kill someone, you have to live with it forever. It can ruin your life. I feel sorry as hell for that marine.</td>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/nod.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="nod"><br><br>
I would think that, as parents, we would very much understand the idea of feeling bad for a person and at the same time, not condoning their actions (I have many chances daily to experience this as my children fight).
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>starlite</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I've heard rumours that there is a procedure known as "verifying the kill" which can also be used in moments of mercy. Was this Iraqi that got shot already wounded before the soldier fired? How do we REALLY know if we were not there - who's word do you take? I hope he was just putting some human out of his pain and suffering, maybe wounds that would enevitably result in death.<br></div>
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In my training as part of the Army Medical Services division, I have NEVER heard of verifying a kill. I can tell you that NO TRAINING in the US Armed Forces EVERY suggests a "mercy kill." In a triage situation, where a soldier is not expected to recover from wounds, he is moved to a special area and given adequate pain medication to stop all suffering. There is NO MERCY KILLING in the US Armed Forces.<br><br>
I just had the clarify that. That's not what you do with a severely wounded soldier - you don't kill them - you medicate them enough to stop the pain.
 

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After further reading I wonder if that marine "snapped" in a moment of terror. The journo that got the ordeal on camera said he was acting eratically and hadn't yet realised that the wounded were unmoved from the day before - and shot dead one of the wounded quickly as if surprised he had been alive at all. The journo also quoted the marine saying that "...he didn't know" that they were wounded from a previous day and posed no threat.<br><br>
The poor marine seems traumatised ... probably seen alot so I no longer think this was a mercy killing.<br><br>
Thankyou to the above poster for clarifying that there was no such policy as verifying the kill. I have heard of American soldier's doing this in other instances and wonder if these war crimes will ever come to light? As for mercy killings ... if I was a soldier and my mate was dying (had minutes to live) and he was messed up really bad asking me to do it - training goes out the window as moving him would be even more traumatic and he fears his last moments of pain knowing that medication would kick in too late - rules shmools I would do it! I would also like my mate to do me the same coutesy. I respect your millitary training but when your on the battlefront it suddenly becomes a very different story ... you are around death so often you honestly don't know how you are going to react. You will probably question some aspects of training where the text book way of doing things becomes unpractical. Why did so many American soldier terrorise and torture the iraqi's and what is really happening at Guatamano Bay? Hmmm ... there goes the theory that war is played by rules and is nice and fair!
 

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War is just so bizarre, I don't even get it. Like it is one thing to shoot bombs and missiles that will OBVIOUSLY kill people and that is okay but it is not okay to shoot point-blank at an enemy soldier? Huh? It's only okay to kill people you can't see when you do it? Can anyone explain this to me? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/bawling.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bawl">
 
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