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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I posted on my friend's blog about a "license to have a baby." Basically, I ended up talking about how change needs to start by changing our values and the way we treat our children to make a point

I implied spanking is child abuse (I do believe this)... then a guy comes on there and tells me it's BIBLICAL and HEALTHY...
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I'm not a Christian, but I'm pretty sure this isn't true. I thought Jesus preached love, not violence. Anyone care to comment here.

I'm so used to doing things my way and practicing GD that I don't even know how to respond to people who disagree with me anymore.
 

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Memo to the guy who is trying to subvert the Bible's messages to support his notion of a "natural progression of discipline":
Crucifixion is Biblical, too, but also generally frowned on these days.
 

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Quote:
Crucifixion is Biblical, too, but also generally frowned on these days.


I'm so stealing that!!!!!
:
 

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I've been working with the conservative Christian community for years trying to help moms move away from very damaging parenting ideas.

One thing I've learned is that spanking discussions rarely lead anywhere. The conservative Christian community has elevated spanking (and other punishment) to such a high level of importance that they interchange the word discipline and punishment.

A woman on a homeschooling board recently said to me that "she hasn't had to disicpline her now teen daughters since they were 5 and 6".
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There are finally some authors in the Christian community who support gentle, firm discipline.

Here's a study from my site:

http://joanneaz_2.tripod.com/positiv...enter/id4.html

But you won't get anywhere as long as the person you are talking to thinks lack of spanking = lack of discipline.

If you do decide to discuss, the truth is that the Bible says to *beat* children. Obviously, that does not mean "spank" and the Bible does not have all the before after crap, never in anger,
stuff Christian authors add to the Bible. If you aren't beating your kids, you aren't following the Bible literally. If it doesn't mean *beat*, it must therefore be figurative.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by griffin2004
Memo to the guy who is trying to subvert the Bible's messages to support his notion of a "natural progression of discipline":
Crucifixion is Biblical, too, but also generally frowned on these days.
 

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Spanking's not biblical. That's a load of crap. People use the Bible to support their bad habits (like spanking) all the time. Kind of like the people who misinterpret the Koran (sp?) and think it says that they have to kill Americans. Yes, Jesus was loving and gentle and I can't imagine somebody such as Him ever raising a hand in anger. It's really just common sense IMO. There's a lot in the Bible that states to treat each others with respect and love. And what about "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"? Do all the "Christian" spankers forget about that verse? As Christians, we are supposed to strive to live and love as Christ did. Christ didn't hate and was not aggressive. He loved and treated others peacefully. He didn't beat children.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by griffin2004
Crucifixion is Biblical, too, but also generally frowned on these days.

that's one of the most absurd things I've ever heard!
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.... HOWEVER I'm taking into consideration you were just kinda making light of the situation with a goofy off hand comment


BUT just incase you actually believe that statement:
Crucifixion being Biblical is a prety inaccurate example. Crusifixion happened during "bible times" yes... but implying it was a biblical thing to do is not true. So to say christians shouldnt spank b/c they don't practice crusifixion is rather rediculous, honestly.

coming up with silly quotes and go to sayings in lieu of REAL facts is not a very good way to convince people of the truth.

having said that, I am a christian. and I think spanking is unbiblical (meaning I do not think God (or Jesus if you will) intended us to just hit on children to teach them)

there is a verse in the Bible stating "spare the rod, spoil the child"
I can not for sure say the exact meaning b/c I have not looked into the original greek etc. But, taking into consideration the rest of the Bible I assume it means not leading and disciplining your child makes them out of control and irresponsible as adults.
The Bible often talks about not only the importance of lovingly mothering a child (proverbs 31) but also the rebuking (meaning teaching) of correct behaviour. I have never seen an instance where one has struck a child in the Bible... atleats not in a "this is what you should do" kinda way. nor I have I read about a child being belittled or treated in any other inhumane way, for that matter.

honestly though, it does go without saying, when one believes a blanket statement or idea (even one with an obviously absurd interpretation like we should spank/beat children with rods) they are most likely rather ignorant themselves and will not take nicely to being proved wrong. I've found ignorant people cling tightly to whatever belief they've been told b/c it's safe. They will fight it to the death blindly.

it's much much much better to lead by example!
!

Laura
 

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Honestly, I am getting so tired of the bible as an excuse to act cruelly, be it toward children, women, homosexuals, you name it. The bible is everywhere! In our politics, our child rearing and in a frighteningly high number of schools. I am really reaching the end of my rope with being told that certain laws should be upheld or abolished because the bible says so. Sorry, I don't mean to get off topic. My response whenever I hear the "bible" excuse for hitting children is "I'm not a Christian, so to me, the Bible is just another book."

PS. I do believe in God, it's religion I have problems with.
 

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Quote:
there is a verse in the Bible stating "spare the rod, spoil the child"
FYI, this quote is not in the Bible at all. It's mis-attributed to the Bible, but it's not in there. It's from a poem by Samuel Butler written to mock the Puritans.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by punkymoma
BUT just incase you actually believe that statement:
Crucifixion being Biblical is a prety inaccurate example. Crusifixion happened during "bible times" yes... but implying it was a biblical thing to do is not true. So to say christians shouldnt spank b/c they don't practice crusifixion is rather rediculous, honestly.
Have trouble detecting the ironic, do we?
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by HappyHSer
FYI, this quote is not in the Bible at all. It's mis-attributed to the Bible, but it's not in there. It's from a poem by Samuel Butler written to mock the Puritans.
Isn't it based on Proverbs 13:24 though? "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him" (NIV) or for the King James fans: "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes."

I guess for those literal interpretists this means you only hit sons and not daughters. For once the girls catch a break!!!
 

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Quote:
Isn't it based on Proverbs 13:24 though? "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him" (NIV) or for the King James fans: "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes."
Yes, those are the verses that Samual Butler used to mock the Puritans in general and their child rearing specifically.

But the actual, literal phrase "Spare the rod, spoil the child" is usually directly "quoted" as a Bible verse. And it's not a Bible verse.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by HappyHSer
But the actual, literal phrase "Spare the rod, spoil the child" is usually directly "quoted" as a Bible verse. And it's not a Bible verse.
Oh, I see. I'd missed that point in your earlier post. Thanks!
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by HappyHSer
FYI, this quote is not in the Bible at all. It's mis-attributed to the Bible, but it's not in there. It's from a poem by Samuel Butler written to mock the Puritans.
In my MacArthur Study Bible, it reads in Proverbs 13:24..
"He who spares the rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him promptly."

The interpretation of this on the bottom of this page states the following:
Early childhood teaching requires both parental discipline, including corporal punishment and balanced kindness and love....

It then goes on to say that one who has genuine affection for his child, but withholds corporal punishment, will produce the same kind of child as a parent who hates his offspring.

In my opinion, people twist/modernize the Bible to suit their needs. It is what it is. We shouldn't try to change it.
 

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MacArthur is pretty punitive... I'm sure that influenced the footnotes in *his* Bible, rather than any scriptural basis for his comments.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BetsyPage
MacArthur is pretty punitive... I'm sure that influenced the footnotes in *his* Bible, rather than any scriptural basis for his comments.
Regardless of what it says in the footnotes, the message is the same in all 3 of my Bible's.

From the Helps Dictionary Concordance, Revised Standard Version:
"He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him."

Then from The Good News Bible Today's English Version:
"If you don't punish your son, you don't love him. If you do love him, you will correct him."
 

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Quote:
Regardless of what it says in the footnotes, the message is the same in all 3 of my Bible's.

From the Helps Dictionary Concordance, Revised Standard Version:
"He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him."

Then from The Good News Bible Today's English Version:
"If you don't punish your son, you don't love him. If you do love him, you will correct him."
Right, but none of the translations actually say anything resembling the whole "spanking" protocol that's been added *to* the Bible by conservative Christians.
 
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